Los Angeles Chargers QB Trey Lance Thread

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Ghostofabshelmet:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Right and like Hero stated, that's how these younger QBs are being taught to throw the ball. A lot of these young QBs are elite athletes now, it's not the Tom Brady's of the world that are becoming 5 star QB recruits. The whole point is to be able to move and make throws a long with standing in the pocket and throwing the ball. The league is changing and has been for a while. Tom Brady at 45 or however old he is, is one of one. Dude is so mentally ahead of everyone from decades of playing that he knows where to go before the ball is snapped. His footwork is pristine, which makes him so accurate. His pocket presence is elite. It's funny I saw a stat, Tommy threw more 20+ passing attempts then anyone in the league and yet he had the 2nd highest TTT in the NFL So the whole you need a elite pass-blocking OL in order to throw the ball downfield is kinda moot. You need an elite QB who can process pre/post. You need a scheme that doesn't allow a D to pin their ears back every down.

am I reading this right? 2nd highest time to throw and most 20 yard passes but don't need elite pass blocking to throw downfield?

From the #1 ranked OL (until Wirfs gets hurt again, of course). Must be nice to live in that world of reality.

In this situation I'm pretty sure that means his TTT is the second quickest. Which Is more consistent with NY's point

So Brady made his OL better?

Correct…Most people wouldn't be shocked by this (well maybe a couple in here).

With primarily the same OL/coaching staff Winston was near the top of the league in sacks the year prior.

it's down right stupid to not think having a QB the caliber of Brady wouldn't help any OL improve.

Incorrect. He hed the #1 ranked OL before he arrived and helped maintain it as the #1 unit. Like Stafford took the #3 OL and helped get it to #1.

The degree to which they both "helped the OL" is not as significant as many would expect.

That doesn't mean they didn't help though...whether it's an athletic (Mahomes) top 5 TTT QB (Brady - quick release and proper pre snap reads and flawless execution), it helps. The flip side works the same way. Staffords OL allowed him to play his game (a high 2.76 TTT + a league leading 600+ passing attempts). They help each other.

If anything it just proves the marriage between the two is a critical component to winning it all.

And one missing piece (non-elite QB or OL) and it can fall apart instantly. You can only go so far.

Do you mind if you link the sources you got for them having the number one line in 2019 From what I remember the Buccs o line from that year was much maligned and the addition of wirfs really helped them along with Brady getting the hall out quick.

Originally posted by Ghostofabshelmet:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Ghostofabshelmet:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Right and like Hero stated, that's how these younger QBs are being taught to throw the ball. A lot of these young QBs are elite athletes now, it's not the Tom Brady's of the world that are becoming 5 star QB recruits. The whole point is to be able to move and make throws a long with standing in the pocket and throwing the ball. The league is changing and has been for a while. Tom Brady at 45 or however old he is, is one of one. Dude is so mentally ahead of everyone from decades of playing that he knows where to go before the ball is snapped. His footwork is pristine, which makes him so accurate. His pocket presence is elite. It's funny I saw a stat, Tommy threw more 20+ passing attempts then anyone in the league and yet he had the 2nd highest TTT in the NFL So the whole you need a elite pass-blocking OL in order to throw the ball downfield is kinda moot. You need an elite QB who can process pre/post. You need a scheme that doesn't allow a D to pin their ears back every down.

am I reading this right? 2nd highest time to throw and most 20 yard passes but don't need elite pass blocking to throw downfield?

From the #1 ranked OL (until Wirfs gets hurt again, of course). Must be nice to live in that world of reality.

In this situation I'm pretty sure that means his TTT is the second quickest. Which Is more consistent with NY's point

So Brady made his OL better?

Correct…Most people wouldn't be shocked by this (well maybe a couple in here).

With primarily the same OL/coaching staff Winston was near the top of the league in sacks the year prior.

it's down right stupid to not think having a QB the caliber of Brady wouldn't help any OL improve.

Incorrect. He hed the #1 ranked OL before he arrived and helped maintain it as the #1 unit. Like Stafford took the #3 OL and helped get it to #1.

The degree to which they both "helped the OL" is not as significant as many would expect.

That doesn't mean they didn't help though...whether it's an athletic (Mahomes) top 5 TTT QB (Brady - quick release and proper pre snap reads and flawless execution), it helps. The flip side works the same way. Staffords OL allowed him to play his game (a high 2.76 TTT + a league leading 600+ passing attempts). They help each other.

If anything it just proves the marriage between the two is a critical component to winning it all.

And one missing piece (non-elite QB or OL) and it can fall apart instantly. You can only go so far.

Do you mind if you link the sources you got for them having the number one line in 2019 From what I remember the Buccs o line from that year was much maligned and the addition of wirfs really helped them along with Brady getting the hall out quick.

They didn't . Not even close

ESPN had the Bucs o line ranked 17th in pass block win rate but pff had the o line ranked 7th overall and 2nd in the league for IOL.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/27584726/nfl-pass-blocking-pass-rushing-rankings-2019-pbwr-prwr-leaderboard

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-offensive-line-rankings-following-2019-regular-season

Originally posted by NCommand:
Incorrect. He hed the #1 ranked OL before he arrived and helped maintain it as the #1 unit. Like Stafford took the #3 OL and helped get it to #1.

The degree to which they both "helped the OL" is not as significant as many would expect.

That doesn't mean they didn't help though...whether it's an athletic (Mahomes) top 5 TTT QB (Brady - quick release and proper pre snap reads and flawless execution), it helps. The flip side works the same way. Staffords OL allowed him to play his game (a high 2.76 TTT + a league leading 600+ passing attempts). They help each other.

If anything it just proves the marriage between the two is a critical component to winning it all.

And one missing piece (non-elite QB or OL) and it can fall apart instantly. You can only go so far.

Wait so the 1# OL in the league had Winston top 5 in sacks? The year before Brady showed up it was all about how they needed to get upgrades. Jensen was not some elite stud. Smith was looked at as a overpaid LT. Cappa was never a pro-bowler or some elite guard. Marpet was the only true elite guy on that OL.

it was significant to the point where they were near the top of the sack/hit list all the way near the bottom with Brady. 2nd lowest TTT in the league yet most 20+ yard attempts lol. Yeah that has nothing to do with the QB 😂

wait since when is 2.76 TTT high? Jimmy G was 2.67 lol. Kirk was 2.76 Matt Ryan was 2.77.

yes I agree you can only go so far without one or the other. That was NEVER my debate with you. It was the value a great QB brings to improving everything including the OL and the misconception that guard play is some thing where you need elite talent to be successful.

Originally posted by YACBros85:
ESPN had the Bucs o line ranked 17th in pass block win rate but pff had the o line ranked 7th overall and 2nd in the league for IOL.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/27584726/nfl-pass-blocking-pass-rushing-rankings-2019-pbwr-prwr-leaderboard

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-offensive-line-rankings-following-2019-regular-season

Right and PFF takes into account run blocking. PBWR does not. OH and guess who has a better PBWR this yr SF or TB? It was SF lol

Originally posted by YACBros85:
"I remember this offseason, after practice, he would be out there throwing with [Brandon Aiyuk], like, 'I just didn't get this route in practice right.' He went out and threw it, the same route, over and over and over and over and over again until he got it down. He's got that mentality, which you love to have in a young guy."

https://www.49erswebzone.com/articles/159214-daniel-brunskill-49ers-trey-lance-mentality-being-perfect/

This is so significant because under the CBA, players don't get that attention-to-detail coaching or repetition in practice anymore. The Walsh-Montana-Clark The Catch play is a classic, literal, example of that. It was a play at the very back end of the playbook that Walsh's OCD thought might be useful some day. Clark was so effing annoyed they even ran it let alone practiced it into perfection (if-then, exact location of the ball, timing, etc.).

So I love to read reports like this because so much is on the players themselves now to practice these details into auto-mode.

We will see how important the guard spot is in TB. They lost both starters and replaced them with some guy I've never heard of and Mason who's PB has taken a dip.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
ESPN had the Bucs o line ranked 17th in pass block win rate but pff had the o line ranked 7th overall and 2nd in the league for IOL.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/27584726/nfl-pass-blocking-pass-rushing-rankings-2019-pbwr-prwr-leaderboard

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-offensive-line-rankings-following-2019-regular-season

Right and PFF takes into account run blocking. PBWR does not. OH and guess who has a better PBWR this yr SF or TB? It was SF lol

I get what you are saying but perhaps the Bucs tackles weren't all that great? Idk. But pff did have this to say.

"The guard and center positions for the Bucs combined for an 80.4 pass-blocking grade this season, ranking second among all offenses around the league."

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Incorrect. He hed the #1 ranked OL before he arrived and helped maintain it as the #1 unit. Like Stafford took the #3 OL and helped get it to #1.

The degree to which they both "helped the OL" is not as significant as many would expect.

That doesn't mean they didn't help though...whether it's an athletic (Mahomes) top 5 TTT QB (Brady - quick release and proper pre snap reads and flawless execution), it helps. The flip side works the same way. Staffords OL allowed him to play his game (a high 2.76 TTT + a league leading 600+ passing attempts). They help each other.

If anything it just proves the marriage between the two is a critical component to winning it all.

And one missing piece (non-elite QB or OL) and it can fall apart instantly. You can only go so far.

Wait so the 1# OL in the league had Winston top 5 in sacks? The year before Brady showed up it was all about how they needed to get upgrades. Jensen was not some elite stud. Smith was looked at as a overpaid LT. Cappa was never a pro-bowler or some elite guard. Marpet was the only true elite guy on that OL.

it was significant to the point where they were near the top of the sack/hit list all the way near the bottom with Brady. 2nd lowest TTT in the league yet most 20+ yard attempts lol. Yeah that has nothing to do with the QB 😂

wait since when is 2.76 TTT high? Jimmy G was 2.67 lol. Kirk was 2.76 Matt Ryan was 2.77.

yes I agree you can only go so far without one or the other. That was NEVER my debate with you. It was the value a great QB brings to improving everything including the OL and the misconception that guard play is some thing where you need elite talent to be successful.

Blah blah blah. Still in here spewing your "QB makes the OL" B.S. That's annually disproven so no need to rehash that esp. when our OL is nowhere near that come playoff time anyways.

The closest anyone has come to that myth is Burrow and he lost too.

Carry on though. If you want to say an upper level QB helps an upper level OL and vice versa modestly, I'll buy it. It helps. Hell, it might even end up being the difference.

Originally posted by NCommand:
Blah blah blah. Still in here spewing your "QB makes the OL" B.S. That's annually disproven so no need to rehash that esp. when our OL is nowhere near that come playoff time anyways.

The closest anyone has come to that myth is Burrow and he lost too.

Carry on though. If you want to say an upper level QB helps an upper level OL and vice versa modestly, I'll buy it. It helps. Hell, it might even end up being the difference.

to me,, a upper level qb can mask a lower quality o line short term but sooner or later that band aid comes off and the qb is hurt and there goes your season. right now,, we have a line filled with multiple question marks at all but one spot and that is scary no matter the qb.

Originally posted by Ghostofabshelmet:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Ghostofabshelmet:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Right and like Hero stated, that's how these younger QBs are being taught to throw the ball. A lot of these young QBs are elite athletes now, it's not the Tom Brady's of the world that are becoming 5 star QB recruits. The whole point is to be able to move and make throws a long with standing in the pocket and throwing the ball. The league is changing and has been for a while. Tom Brady at 45 or however old he is, is one of one. Dude is so mentally ahead of everyone from decades of playing that he knows where to go before the ball is snapped. His footwork is pristine, which makes him so accurate. His pocket presence is elite. It's funny I saw a stat, Tommy threw more 20+ passing attempts then anyone in the league and yet he had the 2nd highest TTT in the NFL So the whole you need a elite pass-blocking OL in order to throw the ball downfield is kinda moot. You need an elite QB who can process pre/post. You need a scheme that doesn't allow a D to pin their ears back every down.

am I reading this right? 2nd highest time to throw and most 20 yard passes but don't need elite pass blocking to throw downfield?

From the #1 ranked OL (until Wirfs gets hurt again, of course). Must be nice to live in that world of reality.

In this situation I'm pretty sure that means his TTT is the second quickest. Which Is more consistent with NY's point

So Brady made his OL better?

Correct…Most people wouldn't be shocked by this (well maybe a couple in here).

With primarily the same OL/coaching staff Winston was near the top of the league in sacks the year prior.

it's down right stupid to not think having a QB the caliber of Brady wouldn't help any OL improve.

Incorrect. He hed the #1 ranked OL before he arrived and helped maintain it as the #1 unit. Like Stafford took the #3 OL and helped get it to #1.

The degree to which they both "helped the OL" is not as significant as many would expect.

That doesn't mean they didn't help though...whether it's an athletic (Mahomes) top 5 TTT QB (Brady - quick release and proper pre snap reads and flawless execution), it helps. The flip side works the same way. Staffords OL allowed him to play his game (a high 2.76 TTT + a league leading 600+ passing attempts). They help each other.

If anything it just proves the marriage between the two is a critical component to winning it all.

And one missing piece (non-elite QB or OL) and it can fall apart instantly. You can only go so far.

Do you mind if you link the sources you got for them having the number one line in 2019 From what I remember the Buccs o line from that year was much maligned and the addition of wirfs really helped them along with Brady getting the hall out quick.

See the OL thread. Loads of info in there.

Here's the Rams:

3. LOS ANGELES RAMSIt is safe to say that the Rams got the bounce-back season they badly needed from their offensive line following the disaster that was the 2019 season for Los Angeles up front.

There really wasn't a whole lot of movement from the Rams this past offseason to add to the group, so the change centered around improvement from the players who were already on the roster. Andrew Whitworth improved his PFF grade by 16 points before his injury, while Austin Blythe's and Austin Corbett's grades each jumped nearly 20 points. Those improvements paled in comparison to Rob Havenstein's jump from a 50.9 PFF grade in 2019 to 80.0 heading into this year's postseason.

As a result, Jared Goff has been pressured on fewer than 30% of his dropbacks after that number sat at 36% in 2019. That remains one of the biggest keys to this offense moving forward, given Goff's career clean pocket vs. pressure splits.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Wait so the 1# OL in the league had Winston top 5 in sacks? The year before Brady showed up it was all about how they needed to get upgrades. Jensen was not some elite stud. Smith was looked at as a overpaid LT. Cappa was never a pro-bowler or some elite guard. Marpet was the only true elite guy on that OL.

it was significant to the point where they were near the top of the sack/hit list all the way near the bottom with Brady. 2nd lowest TTT in the league yet most 20+ yard attempts lol. Yeah that has nothing to do with the QB 😂

wait since when is 2.76 TTT high? Jimmy G was 2.67 lol. Kirk was 2.76 Matt Ryan was 2.77.

yes I agree you can only go so far without one or the other. That was NEVER my debate with you. It was the value a great QB brings to improving everything including the OL and the misconception that guard play is some thing where you need elite talent to be successful.

Inherited #1 my ass lol

Originally posted by cciowa:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Blah blah blah. Still in here spewing your "QB makes the OL" B.S. That's annually disproven so no need to rehash that esp. when our OL is nowhere near that come playoff time anyways.

The closest anyone has come to that myth is Burrow and he lost too.

Carry on though. If you want to say an upper level QB helps an upper level OL and vice versa modestly, I'll buy it. It helps. Hell, it might even end up being the difference.

to me,, a upper level qb can mask a lower quality o line short term but sooner or later that band aid comes off and the qb is hurt and there goes your season. right now,, we have a line filled with multiple question marks at all but one spot and that is scary no matter the qb.

Yup. Whether QB (Jimmy) or OL (Garland, Person, Compton, Brunskill), both can help each other with a lightning TTT and short-area RAC receivers and stellar run blocking but eventually, talent will need to stand on its own and make a play. And that's where we reach our end.

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Wait so the 1# OL in the league had Winston top 5 in sacks? The year before Brady showed up it was all about how they needed to get upgrades. Jensen was not some elite stud. Smith was looked at as a overpaid LT. Cappa was never a pro-bowler or some elite guard. Marpet was the only true elite guy on that OL.

it was significant to the point where they were near the top of the sack/hit list all the way near the bottom with Brady. 2nd lowest TTT in the league yet most 20+ yard attempts lol. Yeah that has nothing to do with the QB 😂

wait since when is 2.76 TTT high? Jimmy G was 2.67 lol. Kirk was 2.76 Matt Ryan was 2.77.

yes I agree you can only go so far without one or the other. That was NEVER my debate with you. It was the value a great QB brings to improving everything including the OL and the misconception that guard play is some thing where you need elite talent to be successful.

Inherited #1 my ass lol

Oh look who needs proof (and will ignore again).

1. BUCCANEERS (Joe Gilbert) – Preseason rank: 3
LT Donovan Smith
LG Ali Marpet
C Ryan Jensen
RG Alex Cappa
RT Tristan Wirfs

The Bucs have been the healthiest of the elite units this season without a single player missing a start and all five guys playing at least 97% of the teams' snaps. The unit is led by their three elite players on the line (Ali Marpet, Ryan Jensen, Tristan Wirfs) who have maintained their status among the league's best at their position through eight games. Donovan Smith has continued his 2020 level of play, which was the best of his career up until that point. A large portion of the unit's success as pass-protectors can be attributed to QB Tom Brady's near flawless pocket presence and quick trigger, but when you study them on film they are communicating and playing off of one another exceptionally well, plus winning their individual matchups at a ridiculously high level. This is a unit without a glaring weakness, blue-chip talent at several spots, and a line's best friend at QB in Brady to help make their lives easier in protection.

Originally posted by cciowa:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Blah blah blah. Still in here spewing your "QB makes the OL" B.S. That's annually disproven so no need to rehash that esp. when our OL is nowhere near that come playoff time anyways.

The closest anyone has come to that myth is Burrow and he lost too.

Carry on though. If you want to say an upper level QB helps an upper level OL and vice versa modestly, I'll buy it. It helps. Hell, it might even end up being the difference.

to me,, a upper level qb can mask a lower quality o line short term but sooner or later that band aid comes off and the qb is hurt and there goes your season. right now,, we have a line filled with multiple question marks at all but one spot and that is scary no matter the qb.

I think a bad QB will make an average O-Line look worse than It Is. Whereas, a good QB will make that same O-Line look respectful.

As for good quarterbacking making a bad O-Line look better than they actually are, I'm not convinced. At some point, spotty PP will always get exposed when It matters most, regardless of who the QB Is