Mac Jones-QB-49ers

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by boomer49er:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by swayze:

Originally posted by Giedi:
Well thats the other point Kyle makes. If they *lean* on their athleticism- in his experience he says it delays their pocket QB development. He is saying that, not me. But seeing Steve be a one read and run QB for years, makes me kind of agree with him.

Now you look at Mahomes and the pro Field's/Lance guys say Mahomes did fine developing behind Alex, therefore Fields/Lance will be just fine. But this isn't Fat Andy's offense, this is Kyles offense- one of the more compelx offenses in the NFL. Again, its that athleticism vs intangibles argument --- i don't have the answer to that question, but Kyle will have to come up with one on the 29th, he can't pick two QBs with that #3 pick.

Using that logic it makes sense as to why all the experts have concluded it's Mac. Shanahan has also said his view has evolved and that there are "hundreds" of ways to be good enough, so the question is how patient is he willing to be with a prospect that uses that athleticism but is "good enough" in at least one of those hundred other ways. I don't think it's just intangibles vs athleticism, there's also arm strength, ability to throw with velocity off platform (unless we are counting these under athleticism?). Honestly at this point my only real reservation with Mac at 3 is his arm, he's just not a premium arm talent guy

As to arm strength, I rely on Chris Simms and also watched a ton of Mac Jones throws and I really didn't see a weak arm. I saw a 60+ yard TD he threw in High School. So I dont agree his arm is sub par for the NFL game.

I also kind of view footwork and the ability to sense pressure and slide around in the pocket as right there in the Grey area between intangibles and athleticism. Like you said he has the footwork and that sensing pressure and pocket sliding ability.

As for athleticism, he had a good OLine so I didn't see a lot of escaping the pocket like Mahomes - 3rd and 15 situations. What i did see was that he rarely got into a third and 15 situation in the first place. Again that was the fact that he had a good team surrounding him, but I also give him a little credit for elevating his team, the way Jimmy did to the 49ers the last 5 games of 2017.

That's not what arm strength means.

You mean like Kaepernicks arm?

Yeah, and?

Kap didn't have anything but a strong arm. If he had Mac's arm then he'd have never been drafted.

I love Mac Jones and would never question Shanny and Lynch IF he's their guy, but you guys are overreacting BIG TIME.

I said it since the trade that I don't think this move was made for Mac Jones, and I don't think our front office leaks the way everyone seems to think it's leaking, with rumors flying left and right about who we are picking.

I think the biggest takeaway from all this was the fact that we scheduled basically scripted pro days with Fields and Lance because it's between the 2 of them, and Mac Jones rumors are just that, rumors to throw the Jets off our scent or anyone else that might sell the house to jump to #2.

I think Mac is going to be a top 15 QB in this league, but as much as I like him, I don't think it will be for us SOLEY because this team doesn't operate like this and no one would be mentioning his name a month before the draft took place. This Jones stuff was created to make the Jets second guess themselves and keep them away from the guy we want, which makes sense because we run the same offense and LaFleur could be feeding them information on what Kyle likes and who would work best in this offense.

The crazy part is I think we actually want the Jets to select Wilson and have wanted this all along. He plays off script more than anyone in the top 5 and I just don't see Kyle loving that trait. He's very talented, but look how Rodgers had to change his game up to work in this type of offense. Both Fields and Lance have elite athletic traits, but they have shown the ability to operate within their schemes, sometimes almost to a fault.

Originally posted by Nastastical:
I love Mac Jones and would never question Shanny and Lynch IF he's their guy, but you guys are overreacting BIG TIME.

I said it since the trade that I don't think this move was made for Mac Jones, and I don't think our front office leaks the way everyone seems to think it's leaking, with rumors flying left and right about who we are picking.

I think the biggest takeaway from all this was the fact that we scheduled basically scripted pro days with Fields and Lance because it's between the 2 of them, and Mac Jones rumors are just that, rumors to throw the Jets off our scent or anyone else that might sell the house to jump to #2.

I think Mac is going to be a top 15 QB in this league, but as much as I like him, I don't think it will be for us SOLEY because this team doesn't operate like this and no one would be mentioning his name a month before the draft took place. This Jones stuff was created to make the Jets second guess themselves and keep them away from the guy we want, which makes sense because we run the same offense and LaFleur could be feeding them information on what Kyle likes and who would work best in this offense.

The crazy part is I think we actually want the Jets to select Wilson and have wanted this all along. He plays off script more than anyone in the top 5 and I just don't see Kyle loving that trait. He's very talented, but look how Rodgers had to change his game up to work in this type of offense. Both Fields and Lance have elite athletic traits, but they have shown the ability to operate within their schemes, sometimes almost to a fault.

This is basically the only reason for the smokescreen and I'd totally buy it.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
LOL yeah no go watch him have to air mail it off the top of the football ceiling because he HAS to put so much air under it to get it there...Fields/Wilson/Lance throw ropes. His arm talent isn't in the same league as the others....he walks into the NFL with bottom half of the league arm talent.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
You mean like Josh Allen/Mahomes/Rogers

Good strong arms are good for an NFL QB, no doubt about it, but I go back to the Bears playoff game in '84, when Joe sliced through a dominant bears defense to pretty much blow them out of the water vs a strong armed Jim McMahon. Arm strength is a bit overrated by fans in my opinion.

Originally posted by a49erfan77:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by jcs:

Originally posted by Chance:

Originally posted by jcs:

Why aren't more people talking about this dime 🎯 #NFLDraft pic.twitter.com/PW2itTUQ4B

— Mac Hereford (@Mac_Hereford) March 31, 2021

That was more of a full body heave while Fields looks like he just tosses a dart across his chest with ease. But I admit he did get it 60 yards. Point still stands that the other two have arms that allow them to make throws that Mac cannot make, reach targets faster.

That was an off platform throw and Mac Jones has plenty arm enough to make every through required of the position and he can do it with consistent ball placement something the other two guys struggle with.

Nice observation! Good point.

This is why the general public shouldn't have access to video from pro days.

Originally posted by rathman4481:

Originally posted by Nastastical:
I love Mac Jones and would never question Shanny and Lynch IF he's their guy, but you guys are overreacting BIG TIME.

I said it since the trade that I don't think this move was made for Mac Jones, and I don't think our front office leaks the way everyone seems to think it's leaking, with rumors flying left and right about who we are picking.

I think the biggest takeaway from all this was the fact that we scheduled basically scripted pro days with Fields and Lance because it's between the 2 of them, and Mac Jones rumors are just that, rumors to throw the Jets off our scent or anyone else that might sell the house to jump to #2.

I think Mac is going to be a top 15 QB in this league, but as much as I like him, I don't think it will be for us SOLEY because this team doesn't operate like this and no one would be mentioning his name a month before the draft took place. This Jones stuff was created to make the Jets second guess themselves and keep them away from the guy we want, which makes sense because we run the same offense and LaFleur could be feeding them information on what Kyle likes and who would work best in this offense.

The crazy part is I think we actually want the Jets to select Wilson and have wanted this all along. He plays off script more than anyone in the top 5 and I just don't see Kyle loving that trait. He's very talented, but look how Rodgers had to change his game up to work in this type of offense. Both Fields and Lance have elite athletic traits, but they have shown the ability to operate within their schemes, sometimes almost to a fault.

This is basically the only reason for the smokescreen and I'd totally buy it.

Imo there's no smoke screen. There's literally nothing. They haven't said or leaked anything. It's all conjecture and belief based on past choices etc otherwise we've literally gotten nothing concrete from anyone about the pick.

Originally posted by Giedi:
I think he'll be fine. If Kyle can keep the run game strong, and have good decent pass catchers, I think his system can make up for a lot of offensive deficiencies. A quick accurate arm with a good strong run game will make that play pass game hard to stop even with journeymen WRs.

You don't draft a QB at #3 that can only make plays within the system.

It's a smokescreen guys, let's all calm down.

Originally posted by Cisco0623:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by jcs:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:

I'm having nightmares... pic.twitter.com/1EwmtSF26m

— Odracir909 (@Ricardo90910) April 26, 2021

Dang that was a good photoshop job!

Yeah you know I do not want Jones, but that's classic. If they draft him first thing he should be told is delete all your social media. This fan base's photoshop skills are way better than this regimes draft record lol

Yeah, photoshop and all the rest makes it really hard to tell fake from real. I'm pretty sure there are folks making a huge amounts of money (legal and illegal) using these photoshop type technologies. 3D printing and 49er fan memorabilia- oh lord!

Originally posted by Giedi:
Good strong arms are good for an NFL QB, no doubt about it, but I go back to the Bears playoff game in '84, when Joe sliced through a dominant bears defense to pretty much blow them out of the water vs a strong armed Jim McMahon. Arm strength is a bit overrated by fans in my opinion.

Joe was 18-34 for 233 yds, 1 TD, and 2 INTs in a 23-0 game.

Jim McMahon didn't play in that game.

Originally posted by a49erfan77:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by jcs:

Originally posted by Heroism:
Peter King's first and only mock. Surprise!

Football Morning In America is up! In my column:

🏈 My one + only MOCK DRAFT. I won't go 32 for 32.
🏈 QBs go 1-2-3, then 8-9
🏈 First defender goes at 10
🏈 Don't be surprised if these 2 vets are traded
🏈 Two trades go down in the early 20s
🏈 More!https://t.co/00u8cyWROy pic.twitter.com/hLZjRM1sMw

— Peter King (@peter_king) April 26, 2021

3. San Francisco 49ers (from Miami via Houston)—Mac Jones, QB, Alabama

Hearing it's a two-horse race with Trey Lance. Quite a few of the experts will faint if this pick happens, and then outrage will ensue, and how-could-they-pass-on-Fields-and-Lance hot takes will flood the earth. GM John Lynch and coach Kyle Shanahan—with contracts that run through 2024 and 2025, respectively—do not care. They have not cared about public sentiment since taking these jobs, and this is their fifth draft. In their first, 2017, I was in the room as it happened, and these were the top three players on the board: 1 Myles Garrett, 2 Solomon Thomas, 3 Reuben Foster. With the third pick, they were sure to get one of those. But Foster? Really? No one had him that high. Lynch: "Had Solomon been gone, we'd have taken Foster. And been happy." My point: Shanahan and Lynch won't care what order the draftniks have the quarterbacks, or any position.

Shanahan believes Jones is the accurate coach-on-the-field type he craves. As one coach in QB-prospecting mode told me this spring: "Jones has elite NFL traits. He's a natural thrower, is technically very sound, very accurate and throws a catchable ball. His base and mechanics are excellent." He's not the athlete a Lance or Fields is, but he doesn't have feet of stone. I'll be fascinated—we all will—if Jones is the pick. And I can see it happening.

Peter King...

Peter King, in his latest mock draft for Sports Illustrated, has the Browns trading the sixth pick to the Chargers for the 11th pick and a second-round choice and using the 11th pick on West Virginia quarterback Geno Smith.

I thought he only mocked the first 3 draft picks?

Originally posted by boomer49er:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by boomer49er:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by swayze:

Originally posted by Giedi:
Well thats the other point Kyle makes. If they *lean* on their athleticism- in his experience he says it delays their pocket QB development. He is saying that, not me. But seeing Steve be a one read and run QB for years, makes me kind of agree with him.

Now you look at Mahomes and the pro Field's/Lance guys say Mahomes did fine developing behind Alex, therefore Fields/Lance will be just fine. But this isn't Fat Andy's offense, this is Kyles offense- one of the more compelx offenses in the NFL. Again, its that athleticism vs intangibles argument --- i don't have the answer to that question, but Kyle will have to come up with one on the 29th, he can't pick two QBs with that #3 pick.

Using that logic it makes sense as to why all the experts have concluded it's Mac. Shanahan has also said his view has evolved and that there are "hundreds" of ways to be good enough, so the question is how patient is he willing to be with a prospect that uses that athleticism but is "good enough" in at least one of those hundred other ways. I don't think it's just intangibles vs athleticism, there's also arm strength, ability to throw with velocity off platform (unless we are counting these under athleticism?). Honestly at this point my only real reservation with Mac at 3 is his arm, he's just not a premium arm talent guy

As to arm strength, I rely on Chris Simms and also watched a ton of Mac Jones throws and I really didn't see a weak arm. I saw a 60+ yard TD he threw in High School. So I dont agree his arm is sub par for the NFL game.

I also kind of view footwork and the ability to sense pressure and slide around in the pocket as right there in the Grey area between intangibles and athleticism. Like you said he has the footwork and that sensing pressure and pocket sliding ability.

As for athleticism, he had a good OLine so I didn't see a lot of escaping the pocket like Mahomes - 3rd and 15 situations. What i did see was that he rarely got into a third and 15 situation in the first place. Again that was the fact that he had a good team surrounding him, but I also give him a little credit for elevating his team, the way Jimmy did to the 49ers the last 5 games of 2017.

That's not what arm strength means.

You mean like Kaepernicks arm?

Yeah, and?

Kap didn't have anything but a strong arm. If he had Mac's arm then he'd have never been drafted.

I think Macs arm is plenty fine for the NFL. I mean look at Nick's noodle arm, with Kyle -- Nick still beat Seadderall. If Kyle picks him (still a big if there) Macs arm shouldn't be an issue.

Originally posted by a49erfan77:

Originally posted by Giedi:
I think he'll be fine. If Kyle can keep the run game strong, and have good decent pass catchers, I think his system can make up for a lot of offensive deficiencies. A quick accurate arm with a good strong run game will make that play pass game hard to stop even with journeymen WRs.

You don't draft a QB at #3 that can only make plays within the system.

Why not, if the system is so good its being implemented by so many other NFL teams?

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
LOL yeah no go watch him have to air mail it off the top of the football ceiling because he HAS to put so much air under it to get it there...Fields/Wilson/Lance throw ropes. His arm talent isn't in the same league as the others....he walks into the NFL with bottom half of the league arm talent.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
You mean like Josh Allen/Mahomes/Rogers

Good strong arms are good for an NFL QB, no doubt about it, but I go back to the Bears playoff game in '84, when Joe sliced through a dominant bears defense to pretty much blow them out of the water vs a strong armed Jim McMahon. Arm strength is a bit overrated by fans in my opinion.

Who cares about 37 years ago? The QBs playing now are completely different overall then the QBs playing back then...the game is different, the rules are different, the kids that are learning to play the position with all these QB camps are NOW elite level athletes along with great football minds. The players you are playing now are bigger/faster/stronger. Coaches are actually playing to these new age QBs strengths.

Arm talent matters...Mac simply doesn't have it compared to the rest of the NFL QBs. His reluctance to throw to the outermost receiver in trips (outside the wide side in college). You can see when he gets off his base and tries to make a throw the velocity isn't there...He HAS to step into this throws to get whatever velocity he has. He has to reset his feet and you can't do that all the time... You are NOT gonna be able to just sit back in the pocket and pick apart a secondary every week. These isn't a QB throwing competition tossing the ball in nets.

End of the day you have 2 other QBs that are stupid smart, play mostly from within the pocket and have other attributes that Mac simply doesn't have in his tool belt. His margin for error is very small.

Originally posted by a49erfan77:

Originally posted by Giedi:
Good strong arms are good for an NFL QB, no doubt about it, but I go back to the Bears playoff game in '84, when Joe sliced through a dominant bears defense to pretty much blow them out of the water vs a strong armed Jim McMahon. Arm strength is a bit overrated by fans in my opinion.

Joe was 18-34 for 233 yds, 1 TD, and 2 INTs in a 23-0 game.

Jim McMahon didn't play in that game.

oops