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New rule banning lowering of the helmet

  • SoCold
  • Hall of Fame
  • Posts: 115,262
Too many defenders leaving their feet to make hits / "tackles". Can't control the direction your body is headed once you leave the ground.

I blame Madden 2005, the Hit Stick and Ray Lewis.
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by Joecool:
This guy was fast running upright.


His head is leaning forward on the very cut up clip you show. He is not anywhere near absolutely perfectly upright which is what the NFL now wants. It's totally unrealistic. Did you ever run really fast? In football, track, cross country? Anything at all? It's not a perfectly up and down upright position. You would not generate any speed that way.

Can't get anymore upright than this:



Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by Joecool:
This guy was fast running upright.


His head is leaning forward on the very cut up clip you show. He is not anywhere near absolutely perfectly upright which is what the NFL now wants. It's totally unrealistic. Did you ever run really fast? In football, track, cross country? Anything at all? It's not a perfectly up and down upright position. You would not generate any speed that way.

Can't get anymore upright than this:


He's not trying to run through tackles. It's a totally different sport. If people were diving at him and trying to tackle him and he is running through a crowd would he run like that? No.
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by Joecool:
This guy was fast running upright.


His head is leaning forward on the very cut up clip you show. He is not anywhere near absolutely perfectly upright which is what the NFL now wants. It's totally unrealistic. Did you ever run really fast? In football, track, cross country? Anything at all? It's not a perfectly up and down upright position. You would not generate any speed that way.

Can't get anymore upright than this:



Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by Joecool:
This guy was fast running upright.


His head is leaning forward on the very cut up clip you show. He is not anywhere near absolutely perfectly upright which is what the NFL now wants. It's totally unrealistic. Did you ever run really fast? In football, track, cross country? Anything at all? It's not a perfectly up and down upright position. You would not generate any speed that way.

Can't get anymore upright than this:


He's not trying to run through tackles. It's a totally different sport. If people were diving at him and trying to tackle him and he is running through a crowd would he run like that? No.

Nearly every player runs upright in open space. Most do lower down as it gets more crowded but the only time the ball carrier puts his head down is to brace impact or concede the run.

Look at Earl Campbell. None of the tackles against required him to put his head down. He only did on the first one to give punishment.




At the end of the day, if defenders don't come flying in like missles, then ball carriers can run more upright which leads to more amazing runs rather then leaning forward too much, putting your head down, and conceding the run even if you aren't hit square.
[ Edited by Joecool on Apr 3, 2018 at 5:21 PM ]
  • Goatie
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 13,606
I think it is time to ditch helmets.

I don't think they work and give footballers a false sense of security. If they don't feel invincible they are not going to use their heads as a battering ram.

The speed they hit each other even with the helmet the brain is going to slosh around in the skull anyway. That is what causes concussion and the damage.

With no helmets they are more likely to take more care with what they do with their heads. Rugby Union and Rugby League player don't wear helmets and get involved in more scrimmages and hard contacts but don't seem to be any worse off then NFL plays. Plus you would have better vision without a helmet.

I am just not sold on the benefits of them.
Originally posted by Goatie:
I think it is time to ditch helmets.

I don't think they work and give footballers a false sense of security. If they don't feel invincible they are not going to use their heads as a battering ram.

The speed they hit each other even with the helmet the brain is going to slosh around in the skull anyway. That is what causes concussion and the damage.

With no helmets they are more likely to take more care with what they do with their heads. Rugby Union and Rugby League player don't wear helmets and get involved in more scrimmages and hard contacts but don't seem to be any worse off then NFL plays. Plus you would have better vision without a helmet.

I am just not sold on the benefits of them.

I've been wondering about this possibility since the day it dawned on me that the NFL may be outlawed some day. No helmets is an alternative that would be preferable. In rugby you are taught to tackle with your head behind the player's legs, which prevents a knee to the cranium. Sadly, it now appears obvious that tackling with your head in front of the leg is a cause of concussions and brain damage even though the helmet protects from broken bones and noses.
America always does everything backwards compared to the more natural countries which are the 3rd world countries.
Originally posted by Goatie:
I think it is time to ditch helmets.

I don't think they work and give footballers a false sense of security. If they don't feel invincible they are not going to use their heads as a battering ram.

The speed they hit each other even with the helmet the brain is going to slosh around in the skull anyway. That is what causes concussion and the damage.
But
With no helmets they are more likely to take more care with what they do with their heads. Rugby Union and Rugby League player don't wear helmets and get involved in more scrimmages and hard contacts but don't seem to be any worse off then NFL plays. Plus you would have better vision without a helmet.

I am just not sold on the benefits of them.

As i suggested earlier, if all drills and practices were done without, but gamedays used, eventually habits will change.
Helmets are helpful imho for reducing incidental or glancing impact harm.
Originally posted by Who-is-Hayne:
Originally posted by Goatie:
I think it is time to ditch helmets.

I don't think they work and give footballers a false sense of security. If they don't feel invincible they are not going to use their heads as a battering ram.

The speed they hit each other even with the helmet the brain is going to slosh around in the skull anyway. That is what causes concussion and the damage.
But
With no helmets they are more likely to take more care with what they do with their heads. Rugby Union and Rugby League player don't wear helmets and get involved in more scrimmages and hard contacts but don't seem to be any worse off then NFL plays. Plus you would have better vision without a helmet.

I am just not sold on the benefits of them.

As i suggested earlier, if all drills and practices were done without, but gamedays used, eventually habits will change.
Helmets are helpful imho for reducing incidental or glancing impact harm.

Player association should definitely vouch for old school style helmets without face masks or no helmets. More fans would see their faces which would help with endorsements and it would help bring the fans to a more personable level.
Now just for FUN for those who think offense players can run completely 100% upright all the way straight up and down lets talk about defensive players. It's not even true when they approach a pile or are coming into contact. But lets focus on defensive players. So if your argument is that it is perfectly natural and acceptable to play tackle football 100% exactly upright straight up and down how do you plan on making a tackle like that? Have you ever played tackle football?

Lets have a player make a tackle 100% completely upright straight up and down. How many times out of 100 will that player get run over and bulldozed? 100 times? How effective at tackling will this said player be? How effective do you think tackling another player running full speed with power at you will be with this tackling technique? Would it be more effective to tackle with some lean into it or a lot of lean into it instead?

Like I said this "rule" if you want to call it that is TOTALLY UNREALISTIC for tackle football on any level. Even for Pop Warner it would be. Certainly for High School and College. Definitely at the NFL level.

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Now just for FUN for those who think offense players can run completely 100% upright all the way straight up and down lets talk about defensive players. It's not even true when they approach a pile or are coming into contact. But lets focus on defensive players. So if your argument is that it is perfectly natural and acceptable to play tackle football 100% exactly upright straight up and down how do you plan on making a tackle like that? Have you ever played tackle football?

Lets have a player make a tackle 100% completely upright straight up and down. How many times out of 100 will that player get run over and bulldozed? 100 times? How effective at tackling will this said player be? How effective do you think tackling another player running full speed with power at you will be with this tackling technique? Would it be more effective to tackle with some lean into it or a lot of lean into it instead?

Like I said this "rule" if you want to call it that is TOTALLY UNREALISTIC for tackle football on any level. Even for Pop Warner it would be. Certainly for High School and College. Definitely at the NFL level.


Have you ever played tackle football without pads at the park? A lot of wrapping up and if you really have a good shot, you go shoulder first. When a ball carrier puts their shoulders or head down, you fall on top of him like a wrestler shooting at your feet. And if his head hits your knees, well that's his fault for lowering his head to expose his dome.

Honestly, the only time to go head first into a tackle is if it is short yardage situation.
[ Edited by Joecool on Apr 4, 2018 at 1:42 PM ]

Originally posted by Joecool:
Player association should definitely vouch for old school style helmets without face masks or no helmets. More fans would see their faces which would help with endorsements and it would help bring the fans to a more personable level.

The reason they went away from leather helmets and added face guards was because of head lacerations and broken jaws/teeth. I highly doubt even the NFLPA wants to have their players return to that and deal with the injuries that hockey players deal with. Staley's orbital injury from last year will become the norm for a huge percentage of players and not just the anomaly it was.
[ Edited by captveg on Apr 4, 2018 at 2:38 PM ]
Originally posted by captveg:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Player association should definitely vouch for old school style helmets without face masks or no helmets. More fans would see their faces which would help with endorsements and it would help bring the fans to a more personable level.

The reason they went away from leather helmets and added face guards was because of head lacerations and broken jaws/teeth. I highly doubt even the NFLPA wants to have their players return to that and deal with the injuries that hockey players deal with. Staley's orbital injury from last year will become the norm for a huge percentage of players and not just the anomaly it was.

I don't think it will become a norm but I would rather have all fake teeth than half a brain.
Originally posted by Who-is-Hayne:
As i suggested earlier, if all drills and practices were done without, but gamedays used, eventually habits will change.
Helmets are helpful imho for reducing incidental or glancing impact harm.

Interesting idea. I believe the helmet has gone from protective to weapon and that is going to be difficult to change. But if all teams are practicing without helmets I don't see any reason for them to wear them during games.
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Now just for FUN for those who think offense players can run completely 100% upright all the way straight up and down lets talk about defensive players. It's not even true when they approach a pile or are coming into contact. But lets focus on defensive players. So if your argument is that it is perfectly natural and acceptable to play tackle football 100% exactly upright straight up and down how do you plan on making a tackle like that? Have you ever played tackle football?

Lets have a player make a tackle 100% completely upright straight up and down. How many times out of 100 will that player get run over and bulldozed? 100 times? How effective at tackling will this said player be? How effective do you think tackling another player running full speed with power at you will be with this tackling technique? Would it be more effective to tackle with some lean into it or a lot of lean into it instead?

Like I said this "rule" if you want to call it that is TOTALLY UNREALISTIC for tackle football on any level. Even for Pop Warner it would be. Certainly for High School and College. Definitely at the NFL level.


Have you ever played tackle football without pads at the park? A lot of wrapping up and if you really have a good shot, you go shoulder first. When a ball carrier puts their shoulders or head down, you fall on top of him like a wrestler shooting at your feet. And if his head hits your knees, well that's his fault for lowering his head to expose his dome.

Honestly, the only time to go head first into a tackle is if it is short yardage situation.

You are not going to be able to tackle a guy period who is running downhill full speed at you like a RB without some kind of lean into it. You can't be straight upright. If you throw a shoulder into it as you suggest the other player adjusts, blockers hit you, you lose footing, etc. On and on so many things can happen. You will have tons and tons of inadvertent and unintentional helmet to helmet hits.

To me there is a big difference between intentional spearing so to speak and just leaning in to make a tackle which happens on pretty much every play. There must be thousands of unintentional and inadvertent hits to the head in a given season.

You will get trucked or bulldozed no doubt about it if you stand straight upright 100% up and down. There is no way you are going to stop a speedy and powerful RB with that. They are going to ruin the NFL with this nonsense. What about a tiny glancing blow? What about something inadvertent? What about something unintentional? There are degrees to this thing. There is a momentum to leaning forward to make a tackle even if you keep your head up. Your body is still not 100% upright straight up and down. That's a totally unrealistic position to be in making a tackle. Putting a shoulder in is leaning forward big time. It's not a 100% straight upright tackle. Like I said this is just totally unrealistic pencil neck ivory tower meddling. This has the real potential to ruin the game. I understand the intention may be well founded and good. But it has the real ability to alter the game and ruin it forever.

[ Edited by SanDiego49er on Apr 4, 2018 at 4:04 PM ]
  • Furlow
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 12,190
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by Joecool:
This guy was fast running upright.


His head is leaning forward on the very cut up clip you show. He is not anywhere near absolutely perfectly upright which is what the NFL now wants. It's totally unrealistic. Did you ever run really fast? In football, track, cross country? Anything at all? It's not a perfectly up and down upright position. You would not generate any speed that way.

Can't get anymore upright than this:



Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by Joecool:
This guy was fast running upright.


His head is leaning forward on the very cut up clip you show. He is not anywhere near absolutely perfectly upright which is what the NFL now wants. It's totally unrealistic. Did you ever run really fast? In football, track, cross country? Anything at all? It's not a perfectly up and down upright position. You would not generate any speed that way.

Can't get anymore upright than this:


He's not trying to run through tackles. It's a totally different sport. If people were diving at him and trying to tackle him and he is running through a crowd would he run like that? No.

The end of a 100m race is controlled deceleration, completely different than football where acceleration is paramount. It's literally impossible to accelerate without leaning forward. Tackle football is played in explosive 5-10 yard increments, expecting players to be upright is ridiculously silly, and only suit-wearing nerds who never played the game would think otherwise.
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