The Patriots deflated footballs Sunday night.

Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Patriots are a disgrace.

Their dynasty has been marred in serious allegations of cheating. God only knows what else they do to get a competitive advantage. I hope Gizel cheats on Brady and when he asked to see her texts she smashes the phone and be like, "Brady defense."

Shame.

Hahaha .


Here's what Mark Cuban had to say -

As far as 4 games being upheld, the NBA owner in me is surprised it wasn't extended. The old saying 'the cover up is always worse than the crime' applies here.
Once he destroyed his phone this all went from did he break the rules of the game, to 'can he get away with deceiving the commissioner.'
We can argue whether 4 games was too much for deflating the ball. You can't argue whether 4 games is enough for trying to make a fool out of the commissioner of the NFL.....

So while the Pats fans I'm sure will disagree, I think the punishment of 4 games for trying to destroy evidence is actually lite.


Full article at:
http://nesn.com/2015/07/mark-cuban-rips ... re-severe/

Snitches! Ravens contacted to colts to rat out the pats.

Originally posted by captveg:
Personally, I hope Brady sues the league and wins. The idea that he is required to hand over his personal cell phone is absurd. Would YOU trust the NFL to not leak non-football related content from your personal cell phone? I wouldn't.

Case in point: an innocuous enough exchange, but 100% nothing to do with the NFL.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/tom-bradys-reaction-being-told-160000166.html

One nude personal pic of Gisele on his phone and his destruction of the phone is entirely justified. No chance in hell that wouldn't get leaked by the NFL to the public. And that's just one legit, non-football related reason to not give up his cell phone.

Originally posted by captveg:

Originally posted by captveg:
Personally, I hope Brady sues the league and wins. The idea that he is required to hand over his personal cell phone is absurd. Would YOU trust the NFL to not leak non-football related content from your personal cell phone? I wouldn't.

Case in point: an innocuous enough exchange, but 100% nothing to do with the NFL.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/tom-bradys-reaction-being-told-160000166.html

One nude personal pic of Gisele on his phone and his destruction of the phone is entirely justified. No chance in hell that wouldn't get leaked by the NFL to the public. And that's just one legit, non-football related reason to not give up his cell phone.

or nude pics from other chicks, or maybe Dick pics to other chicks ala Brett Favre

most of all the evidence that he cheated

What most have to realize here is what Brady is found guilty of by the NFL of doing is compromising the game. Football folks! I spend a ton of my time and money following this game with a vested interest in my team winning and the rules being applied fairly to all. If the rules aren't followed and anything goes then we have WWE and I ain't watching no more. To compare what folk accuse NE of doing for years to random criminal acts off the field mean nothing to me. What goes on outside of football ain't my problem unless it happens to me quite frankly but when we have PEDs and rule breakers that's when I get irate because the game means too much to me. Much more than some violent crime on CNN or whatever. Ish happens and that's throughout time but I pay good money to see a good clean game of football and if you're caught cheating you need to pay up no excuses made.

Originally posted by qnnhan7:
lol Brady & the Pats. It's true, it's not the deed, it's the cover-up that makes this situation much worse. Had he admitted that he deflated the ball, it would have been a much less penalty. Would have blown over very quickly as something a player did almost impishly. Something stupid that really didn't affect the game to any measurable degree.

But the absolute denial and cover-up, like watching them digging a deeper hole. lol

i'll agree with that as it pertains to the colts game ..... but not the ravens game that preceded it. patriots behind with 5:30 to go. one incomplete pass out of the 33 he completed could have easily changed the 35-31 outcome of the game. when you're used to throwing nerf balls, the regulation ball is problematic.

it will be very interesting to see if NE can maintain it's gigantic NFL lead in fewest fumbles that they have maintained since 2006 when teams were allowed control of the footballs. if fully inflated balls bring their fumble numbers back in line with the rest of the league, that will add yet another chunk of circumstantial evidence to the cheating allegations

Originally posted by furrian:
i'll agree with that as it pertains to the colts game ..... but not the ravens game that preceded it. patriots behind with 5:30 to go. one incomplete pass out of the 33 he completed could have easily changed the 35-31 outcome of the game. when you're used to throwing nerf balls, the regulation ball is problematic.

it will be very interesting to see if NE can maintain it's gigantic NFL lead in fewest fumbles that they have maintained since 2006 when teams were allowed control of the footballs. if fully inflated balls bring their fumble numbers back in line with the rest of the league, that will add yet another chunk of circumstantial evidence to the cheating allegations

I had BAL pegged to win the chip last postseason going in. I was very surprised NE advanced beyond BAL

Originally posted by Pillbusta:
What most have to realize here is what Brady is found guilty of by the NFL of doing is compromising the game. Football folks! I spend a ton of my time and money following this game with a vested interest in my team winning and the rules being applied fairly to all. If the rules aren't followed and anything goes then we have WWE and I ain't watching no more. To compare what folk accuse NE of doing for years to random criminal acts off the field mean nothing to me. What goes on outside of football ain't my problem unless it happens to me quite frankly but when we have PEDs and rule breakers that's when I get irate because the game means too much to me. Much more than some violent crime on CNN or whatever. Ish happens and that's throughout time but I pay good money to see a good clean game of football and if you're caught cheating you need to pay up no excuses made.

well said .... and it's too bad everyone doesn't see it that way.

criminal acts are abhorrent, but they don't affect the outcome of games. i'm concerned with any and all acts perpetrated to gain an on-field game day advantage. IMO, fans who argue this point comparing what brady did with spousal abuse or murder are completely missing the point. frankly, i'd be okay with football players going through the legal system and being treated like any fan would be when accused of a criminal act. i'd be okay with the NFL only ruling on acts impacting the on-field integrity of the game and adopting a "one strike and you're out" policy toward criminal acts felony or worse. they can use their name and money to buy innocence in court, but they can't return to the league. if you choose to have wildly talented but unstable players on your team then you better have an in-house system in place to insure their compliance with all rules if they want to play football.

someone mentioned having one nude pic of gizel on the phone is cause not to give it up. does he need that pic on his phone? erase the pic or destroy the phone you know the nfl wants to see to clear your name ..... hmmmm ... i cannot decide. if you know you're innocent, it's a no brainer. too bad that much of what brady has done only makes sense if you're guilty

Originally posted by furrian:
someone mentioned having one nude pic of gizel on the phone is cause not to give it up. does he need that pic on his phone? erase the pic or destroy the phone you know the nfl wants to see to clear your name ..... hmmmm ... i cannot decide. if you know you're innocent, it's a no brainer. too bad that much of what brady has done only makes sense if you're guilty

Erasing the pic won't permanently remove it from your phone. The data is still there, just not accessible from the OS. A forensic scan can still find it, which they'd more than likely do, since it would find any deleted texts as well.

Ask yourself this.

Is it legal for you to have nude pics of a consenting adult you have a sexual relationship with on your phone?

If you chose to have such pictures, would you hand over your phone to your employer, even when nothing in your employment agreement says you need to do so?

I sure as hell wouldn't.

Originally posted by furrian:
well said .... and it's too bad everyone doesn't see it that way.

criminal acts are abhorrent, but they don't affect the outcome of games. i'm concerned with any and all acts perpetrated to gain an on-field game day advantage. IMO, fans who argue this point comparing what brady did with spousal abuse or murder are completely missing the point. frankly, i'd be okay with football players going through the legal system and being treated like any fan would be when accused of a criminal act. i'd be okay with the NFL only ruling on acts impacting the on-field integrity of the game and adopting a "one strike and you're out" policy toward criminal acts felony or worse. they can use their name and money to buy innocence in court, but they can't return to the league. if you choose to have wildly talented but unstable players on your team then you better have an in-house system in place to insure their compliance with all rules if they want to play football.

someone mentioned having one nude pic of gizel on the phone is cause not to give it up. does he need that pic on his phone? erase the pic or destroy the phone you know the nfl wants to see to clear your name ..... hmmmm ... i cannot decide. if you know you're innocent, it's a no brainer. too bad that much of what brady has done only makes sense if you're guilty

Exactly this. Aldon Smith was an idiot they said because of guns alcohol and a TSA tussle. OK, so he paid his debt to society and in fact was proactive in missing games in season to do it so I don't get why football fans are supposed to care if the commissioner is going to punish him again for things outside of the game to the tune of 9 games after Ray Rice got caught on tape slugging his wife? There was a ground swelling league wide and all throughout the media to punish Aldon Smith and boy did Roger and well that did impact 9 of our games. What Brady did was cheat within the game and anyone not just Brady caught cheating needs to be punished by Goodell but stuff outside the game why should I care unless it is some truly reprehensible stuff that can embarrass the entire league? Cheating in our game should not be tolerated by any fan under any circumstances and there should be zero excuses made. You get caught you take punishment. Greg Hardy may have beat the mess outta his woman and I'm glad he ain't on our team but that won't impact his skill level on Sunday once he serves his 4 games. If we meet em we still gotta beat him to earn that chip

Originally posted by Pillbusta:
What most have to realize here is what Brady is found guilty of by the NFL of doing is compromising the game. Football folks! I spend a ton of my time and money following this game with a vested interest in my team winning and the rules being applied fairly to all. If the rules aren't followed and anything goes then we have WWE and I ain't watching no more.

I understand this point of view, but what you're saying borders on rhetoric and hyperbole. Brady deflated footballs by a PSI or two. Yes, that's "cheating", but all things considered it probably had a minimal impact on the game. It's less heinous than you're making it out to be, and much more gamesmanship than anything.

People are being very hypocritical with their reaction to what happened with Brady in two ways:

1. There are many times the 49ers have cheated and bent the rules over the years, including...
- Joe Montana admitting (unambiguously) that his offensive lineman used silicone spray on their jerseys.
- Justin Smith being notorious for holding incessantly.
- Bill Walsh being accused of scripting his plays and then sabotaging team's headsets for a competitive advantage.
... and yet not one thinks any of their accomplishments deserve an asterisk. Oh yeah, we'll conveniently sweep those under the rug because they didn't get caught. (Again, no idea how this makes a difference with regards to them cheating.)

2. Countless 49ers fans are in outrage over Aldon's 9-game suspension. They say things like, "it's not fair. Greg Hardy beat a woman and only got 4 games. Aldon merely drove drunk, and yet his punishment was way more severe?" With Aldon, people acknowledge that not all off-the-field crimes are created equal. For example, killing is worse than stealing a candy bar.

From an analogous standpoint, what Brady did was closer to stealing a candy bar than killing. Why, with Aldon, do we make excuses and say, "well, it's not a big deal, what Hardy did was way worse", but when it comes to Brady people lose their minds and say, "it doesn't matter, cheating of ANY form is completely inexcusable!" It's a double standard.

If you're really so bothered about "I don't tolerate cheating of ANY form", you should just stop watching football because all 32 teams bend the rules every Sunday. It's gamesmanship. It's sports.

Originally posted by theduke85:
I understand this point of view, but what you're saying borders on rhetoric and hyperbole. Brady deflated footballs by a PSI or two. Yes, that's "cheating", but all things considered it probably had a minimal impact on the game. It's less heinous than you're making it out to be, and much more gamesmanship than anything.

If you're really so bothered about "I don't tolerate cheating of ANY form", you should just stop watching football because all 32 teams bend the rules every Sunday. It's gamesmanship. It's sports.

sadly, this attitude is all too common.

dunno how you can say that the "cheating" only had a minimal effect on the baltimore game after you look at the box score.

then you go so far as to call cheating "gamesmanship" ...... and then fall back on the tried and true "everyone does it"


this shows a lack of understanding of the basic meaning of "cheating" and a willingness to ignore its long term implications for the sport

you pretty much said everything except "break the rules and you'll be punished" ..... and that's the only thing that truly needed to be said.

Originally posted by furrian:
sadly, this attitude is all too common.

dunno how you can say that the "cheating" only had a minimal effect on the baltimore game after you look at the box score.

then you go so far as to call cheating "gamesmanship" ...... and then fall back on the tried and true "everyone does it"

Cheaters should be punished. We should do everything in our power to discourage cheating. I don't think it's "acceptable", but I'm not naive and I know it's going to happen. The most important thing for me is that there's no reason to overreact and make a mountain out of a molehill. And we sure as hell should not throw stones from a glass house, because our own players have admitted to cheating. Saying "everyone does it" is not even a baseless cliche, but I provided concrete examples. The mental gymnastics that people perform to vilify Brady will giving our own players a free pass is absolutely startling. I am just so god damn sick of the double standards. We see it with Brady, we see it with Aldon, etc... how hard is it to have a little objectivity?

Brady should be punished. I've said this all along. But this attempt to diminish his accomplishments or disparage his reputation just reeks of insecurity by 49ers fans who are scared that he's knocking on Montana's doorstep.

Originally posted by theduke85:
Cheaters should be punished. We should do everything in our power to discourage cheating. I don't think it's "acceptable", but I'm not naive and I know it's going to happen. The most important thing for me is that there's no reason to overreact and make a mountain out of a molehill. And we sure as hell should not throw stones from a glass house, because our own players have admitted to cheating. Saying "everyone does it" is not even a baseless cliche, but I provided concrete examples. The mental gymnastics that people perform to vilify Brady will giving our own players a free pass is absolutely startling. I am just so god damn sick of the double standards. We see it with Brady, we see it with Aldon, etc... how hard is it to have a little objectivity?

Brady should be punished. I've said this all along. But this attempt to diminish his accomplishments or disparage his reputation just reeks of insecurity by 49ers fans who are scared that he's knocking on Montana's doorstep.

you say cheaters should be punished, then finish the post by stating that everyone does it so why punish anyone and people living in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

if the system for assuring compliance to the rules is broken or misapplied, don't blow it off, fix it.

if by doing so you hand out punishment initially that some fans feel is not commensurate to other recent rulings, keep in mind that if you follow guidelines consistently over a period of time there will be a general sense of fairness to the process.


whether or not non-fans of the pats choose to diminish or disparage the pats or pats players and not their own team isn't cogent to the issue at hand. it does nothing but cloud the issue.

ask yourself .... do you want a game as fairly contested as possible? ..... or do you want WWF


is the game worth the trouble to ensure fairness? .... or not?

Originally posted by furrian:
you say cheaters should be punished, then finish the post by stating that everyone does it so why punish anyone and people living in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

if the system for assuring compliance to the rules is broken or misapplied, don't blow it off, fix it.

How could you possibly read my post and insinuate that I'm saying "why bother punishing anyone?" The opening sentence of my conclusion was literally "Brady should be punished. I've said this all along."

You can really break down the argument to two main points. You are conflating the two ideas and trying to pigeonhole my thoughts.

Point 1: Brady got caught cheating. Should he be punished?
Yes, of course he should be punished. If there are no consequences for having rules, what's the point of having them? They would never be respected. Punishing Brady discourages cheating. Cheating is bad, we don't want it.

Point 2: Brady got caught cheating. Does it taint the integrity of the game or taint his legacy?
No, I don't think it does. I mean, yeah, sure, the sensationalist media blows this story wildly out of proportion. But ultimately, saying what Brady did is a heinous crime is just ridiculous (again, to quote Joe Montana, "everybody is afraid to say it, but if the guy did it, so what? Just pay up and move on. It's no big deal."). Do you see what Montana is saying? "Punish him" and "it's not a big deal". You can feel both things at one time. They are not mutually exclusive. All I'm saying is, if you think this taints Brady's accomplishments, then I sure as hell hope you think Montana's/Walsh's/Justin Smith's accomplishments are tainted too, because they did the similar things.