Luck or Kaepernick?

Originally posted by phatbutskinny:
Really?

First of all, to base your argument on such a small sample size of postseason records is ridiculous. Not only is it a tiny sample size of 5 or 6 games, they are played against different opponents, with different weapons, with different defenses. Maybe if you give it a few more years, but if you look at the entire body of work, including regular season - Luck has shown that he is the better QB, and will continue to be great. After the read option was figured out, we still don't know if Kap can excel (personally, I think he will, but he's not as good as Luck)

...And yet again those goal posts move. I'm going to make this as easy for you as I can:

Andrew Luck has better passing stats than Colin Kaepernick. I do not now nor have I at any point in this conversation claimed otherwise.

However:

"...small size of postseason records..."

Well, that's all we have to go on when speaking to their relative postseason performance, no? What would you suggest we use instead? Their combined regular and postseason records because that fits your argument better?

"...maybe if you give a few more years..."

Well, maybe in a few years I'll hit the lottery. Maybe in a few years I'll be able to to convince Zooey Deschanel and Hannah Simone to move to Utah with me and give this whole "plural marriage" thing a shot. Maybe in a few years Jesus will return. Point being, we could play the "maybe" game all day.

What I'm talking about is RIGHT NOW and RIGHT NOW there is simply no comparison between the two in the postseason. One is 4-2, has won at home and away, and came three (or was it four? I can't remember) consecutive fade routes away from a Super Bowl victory and back-to-back Super Bowl berths. The other, despite being lauded as an elite passer gets his ass handed to him whenever he runs into NE.

And FWIW, we put up 41 the last time Kap played the Pats. You would have to combine Luck's past three performances against the Pats to surpass that total.

......In yet another game that the Niners defense fell flat on its face, surrendering 34 points.

^^^^^

Either way you slice it luck won't always have to get past NE. Kap will always gave to get by Sea.

Originally posted by jreff22:
^^^^^

Either way you slice it luck won't always have to get past NE. Kap will always gave to get by Sea.

No, not always but certainly for the foreseeable future. The only threat to NE in the AFC is Baltimore as Denver is about to take a nosedive. Same with the NFC. The Seahawks are good now but they won't always be forever. Neither will the 49ers or anyone else for that matter.

Just the way it works.

Luck. It's not even close

At this point in time you would definitely take Luck over Kaepernick. Whats important is improvements by your QB year after year. Luck has shown the improvements, since he was drafted hes gotten better and better. Kaepernick, on the other hands is going backwards and sideways. Getting to a superbowl and winning a NFC championship is what a lot of you are holding as a highlight for Kaepernick but everyone should keep in mind of not falling in the same trap the Jets fell into with Sanchez. He went to 2 AFC championships and set the the Jets back for years with a horrible contract. They gave him chance after chance because of what he did in the past. He started for them for 5 years but should've gotten 3-4 years because at that point you know whether you have a dud or a franchise QB. If a QB hasn't gotten rid of their bad habits and improved their throwing, decision making, and reads at the line by the 4th or 5th year thats what you have. They won't improve by much.

Just my 2 cents

Originally posted by baltien:

Originally posted by phatbutskinny:

Really?

First of all, to base your argument on such a small sample size of postseason records is ridiculous. Not only is it a tiny sample size of 5 or 6 games, they are played against different opponents, with different weapons, with different defenses. Maybe if you give it a few more years, but if you look at the entire body of work, including regular season - Luck has shown that he is the better QB, and will continue to be great. After the read option was figured out, we still don't know if Kap can excel (personally, I think he will, but he's not as good as Luck)

...And yet again those goal posts move. I'm going to make this as easy for you as I can:

Andrew Luck has better passing stats than Colin Kaepernick. I do not now nor have I at any point in this conversation claimed otherwise.

However:

"...small size of postseason records..."

Well, that's all we have to go on when speaking to their relative postseason performance, no? What would you suggest we use instead? Their combined regular and postseason records because that fits your argument better?

"...maybe if you give a few more years..."

Well, maybe in a few years I'll hit the lottery. Maybe in a few years I'll be able to to convince Zooey Deschanel and Hannah Simone to move to Utah with me and give this whole "plural marriage" thing a shot. Maybe in a few years Jesus will return. Point being, we could play the "maybe" game all day.

What I'm talking about is RIGHT NOW and RIGHT NOW there is simply no comparison between the two in the postseason. One is 4-2, has won at home and away, and came three (or was it four? I can't remember) consecutive fade routes away from a Super Bowl victory and back-to-back Super Bowl berths. The other, despite being lauded as an elite passer gets his ass handed to him whenever he runs into NE.

And FWIW, we put up 41 the last time Kap played the Pats. You would have to combine Luck's past three performances against the Pats to surpass that total.

......In yet another game that the Niners defense fell flat on its face, surrendering 34 points.

I am not combining regular season and postseason to fit MY argument.

I am saying that you can't solely use their postseason records as the reasoning behind saying Kap is better than Luck. You have to look at the full body of work, and it is blatantly obvious that Luck is superior.

Yes, postseason matters Wayyyyy more and should be a key point as your argument, but cant be the only point. Kaepernick has only regressed since that super bowl year, and luck has gotten better each year...

Like I said before, I love kaepernick. I believe in his potential and think he can get reach it with his work ethic, but it your bias amazes me. Luck is more proven, a better pocket passer, and has improved from his first season. Kaepernick as done the opposite

The post season doesn't matter if you can't get there.

Originally posted by jreff22:
The post season doesn't matter if you can't get there.

but 4-2 playoffs 3-1 road matters aplenty when it came contract signing time

Originally posted by Pillbusta:

Originally posted by jreff22:

The post season doesn't matter if you can't get there.

but 4-2 playoffs 3-1 road matters aplenty when it came contract signing time

It did. But right now its a stat that doesn't matter. While manning may suck in the post season, he at least got there a lot. I have faith that Kap can get wins in the playoffs...problem is we never got a shot. That's why I have issues when people don't see the urgency to win. The idea that we could sneak in while looking horrendous all year was laughable. At no point did we really look like an offense ready for the post season. And when I read people say the little things don't matter because Kap wins in the playoffs....you gotta get there first.

I do think Luck is more polished but in our system this past year along with the injures I don't think it would've mattered. Like when people bashed Alex and wanted Rodgers, in our system with Nolan, Rodgers would've failed.

Until we get a mildly decent OC and some more talent at WR Kap will struggle, just like Alex did. If anything this might make some people who hated Alex realize one guy can't do it all alone.

I will still bang the "draft 2 WR's" drum this year like I have the past 6 years. Trent better be on his game this year.

Originally posted by phatbutskinny:

I am not combining regular season and postseason to fit MY argument.

I am saying that you can't solely use their postseason records as the reasoning behind saying Kap is better than Luck. You have to look at the full body of work, and it is blatantly obvious that Luck is superior.

Yes, postseason matters Wayyyyy more and should be a key point as your argument, but cant be the only point. Kaepernick has only regressed since that super bowl year, and luck has gotten better each year...

Like I said before, I love kaepernick. I believe in his potential and think he can get reach it with his work ethic, but it your bias amazes me. Luck is more proven, a better pocket passer, and has improved from his first season. Kaepernick as done the opposite

What bias? This is my THIRD time now saying that Luck is absolutely a better passer than Kap. And my second time saying that I've never claimed otherwise.

Luck is not, however, at this point in his career at least a better postseason QB than Kap and I've provided all the facts to support that in my last post.

For all the criticism, Kap shows up in the playoffs. His record supports that. Luck, for all the praise being heaped upon him has not yet shown the ability (or whatever you want to call it) to go deep into the postseason. His record supports that.

I don't know how else to say it.

Passing stats alone are probably MORE flawed than postseason wins because I (as I did upthread) could name countless guys in the league right now that light up the stat sheet but fizzle out the moment the game actually matters.

Romo, Stafford, Ryan, Eli Manning, Newton, Dalton, Philip Rivers and yes, even Andrew Luck.

All are great picks for your fantasy team....but not so great outside of that.

Originally posted by baltien:

Originally posted by phatbutskinny:
I am not combining regular season and postseason to fit MY argument.

I am saying that you can't solely use their postseason records as the reasoning behind saying Kap is better than Luck. You have to look at the full body of work, and it is blatantly obvious that Luck is superior.

Yes, postseason matters Wayyyyy more and should be a key point as your argument, but cant be the only point. Kaepernick has only regressed since that super bowl year, and luck has gotten better each year...

Like I said before, I love kaepernick. I believe in his potential and think he can get reach it with his work ethic, but it your bias amazes me. Luck is more proven, a better pocket passer, and has improved from his first season. Kaepernick as done the opposite

What bias? This is my THIRD time now saying that Luck is absolutely a better passer than Kap. And my second time saying that I've never claimed otherwise.

Luck is not, however, at this point in his career at least a better postseason QB than Kap and I've provided all the facts to support that in my last post.

For all the criticism, Kap shows up in the playoffs. His record supports that. Luck, for all the praise being heaped upon him has not yet shown the ability (or whatever you want to call it) to go deep into the postseason. His record supports that.

I don't know how else to say it.

Passing stats alone are probably MORE flawed than postseason wins because I (as I did upthread) could name countless guys in the league right now that light up the stat sheet but fizzle out the moment the game actually matters.

Romo, Stafford, Ryan, Eli Manning, Newton, Dalton, Philip Rivers and yes, even Andrew Luck.

All are great picks for your fantasy team....but not so great outside of that.

I believe we were arguing different things here then. I thought you were citing postseason stats to argue why you think Kaepernick is better than Luck. But I guess you were just making a point that Kaepernick is better than Luck in the postseason so far (which is fairly obvious)....

My question is this: If you were building a team right now, do you choose Luck or Kaepernick?

can the poll be reset? i have a feeling the results will change drastically

Originally posted by ChazBoner:
can the poll be reset? i have a feeling the results will change drastically

Start a new poll

Originally posted by valrod33:
Luck and its not even close

sayin

Luck in the regular season, kap in the playoffs.