Luck or Kaepernick?

Originally posted by simplyfloyd:

neither of the up and coming Quarterbacks played well yesterday. Russell had some magic that came out of nowhere but...until then..his day was worse than anything kap had done...

luck didn't play well either. At this point, Kaepernick has outplayed both of them in the playoffs...

How so? Wilson is going to his 2nd super bowl...back to back.

Originally posted by simplyfloyd:
neither of the up and coming Quarterbacks played well yesterday. Russell had some magic that came out of nowhere but...until then..his day was worse than anything kap had done...

luck didn't play well either. At this point, Kaepernick has outplayed both of them in the playoffs...

Correction, CK has 'out-rushed' RW and AL in the playoffs.
As for passing in the postseason . . .

QB - record - rating - TD/INT - Y/A
CK ....4-2 .......87.3 ......7/5 .....8.48
AL ....3-3 .......70.8 ......9/12 ....7.03
RW ...6-1 .......96.3 .....10/5 .....8.69

Put Luck on SF three years ago and I have zero doubt we'd have won at least 1 SB, probably 2.

Originally posted by nj9er:
Luck is the perfect replacement for Manning. Lots of regular season wins but cant beat Brady.

Difference is Manning was surrounded with elite talent for most of those years, including an exceptional OL. Luck has been surrounded by mediocrity at best, a horrible OL and a RB who's so bad he's become a healthy scratch.

Originally posted by vaden:

Originally posted by nj9er:
Luck is the perfect replacement for Manning. Lots of regular season wins but cant beat Brady.

Difference is Manning was surrounded with elite talent for most of those years, including an exceptional OL. Luck has been surrounded by mediocrity at best, a horrible OL and a RB who's so bad he's become a healthy scratch.

Andrew Luck's passing targets are not mediocre. Now everywhere else, you have a point.

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:

Originally posted by vaden:

Originally posted by nj9er:
Luck is the perfect replacement for Manning. Lots of regular season wins but cant beat Brady.

Difference is Manning was surrounded with elite talent for most of those years, including an exceptional OL. Luck has been surrounded by mediocrity at best, a horrible OL and a RB who's so bad he's become a healthy scratch.

Andrew Luck's passing targets are not mediocre. Now everywhere else, you have a point.

I agree. By mediocrity at best I meant the overall team.

Originally posted by baltien:

Originally posted by phatbutskinny:

Originally posted by baltien:
I know what I said, do you? At no point did I say anything about Super Bowls until you brought it up. Since neither Kap or Luck have a chip we go with the next best thing which is their postseason record.

And Kap has been better there. No idea why that's so painful for some of you to admit.

Andy Dalton has better passing numbers than Kap. Is he "better" as well? How about Matt Stafford? Or Nick Foles and hell, even Mark Sanchez. Can't forget Carson Palmer and Cam Newton either. Matt Ryan yall.

I could go on all day with all the QB's that have better numbers except the one that matters most:

WINS.

thats interesting, including postseason

Luck - 35-18

Kaepernick: 28 - 16

Luck has a higher winning % than Kap. On top of that you're disregarding the fact that Kap has had a better defense to work with.

BTW, this is not me making an anti-Kap post. I love Kap, I think he can get us to the promise land.....but you're blind if you would choose him over Luck. Even worse, your argument is flawed considering Luck has more wins....

I'm not blind. I know that because I can clearly see that you didn't read my earlier posts and now you're moving the proverbial goalposts (again) to support your argument.

No one said anything about combined regular and postseason winning percentages. Nobody said anything about Super Bowls. Well, nobody said anything about those things until YOU brought them up. The conversation that we were having earlier was about Kap's postseason (<-- operative word) record versus Luck's as a subset of the point that Luck currently (<-- again, so I don't lose you) has yet to prove that he can win when it matters. Kap, for all the criticism he receives has done a MUCH better job of that, easily surpassing all of the young QB's in the league save Russell Wilson.

That is indisputable fact.

Onto your points:

1) Luck has more wins because he's had a year and half longer as a starter. So while what you said is technically true, it's not a fair comparison. However, you stated that Luck has overall a higher winning percentage than Kap and that is true all the same.

2) Let's give the "but the defense" argument a rest, shall we? Here's the final score from all of Kap's postseason games:

2012:

Against the Packers: 45-31

Against the Falcons: 28-24

Against the Ravens: 31-34

2013:

At the Packers: 23-20

At the Panthers: 23-10

At the Seahawks: 17-23

So maybe ONE game that you could say the defense carried it (Panthers). That aside, Kap carried the team when the defense failed, and even when the running game failed. And FWIW, he has yet to be throttled in the postseason the way Luck has TWICE now against New England.

Lord knows that this board would implode before disappearing into a black hole of rage if all Kap could manage was seven points in a playoff game.

Yet Luck is "better".....

Amazing.

Thank you, great post.

Originally posted by LisaTwelve:

Originally posted by simplyfloyd:
neither of the up and coming Quarterbacks played well yesterday. Russell had some magic that came out of nowhere but...until then..his day was worse than anything kap had done...

luck didn't play well either. At this point, Kaepernick has outplayed both of them in the playoffs...

Correction, CK has 'out-rushed' RW and AL in the playoffs.
As for passing in the postseason . . .

QB - record - rating - TD/INT - Y/A
CK ....4-2 .......87.3 ......7/5 .....8.48
AL ....3-3 .......70.8 ......9/12 ....7.03
RW ...6-1 .......96.3 .....10/5 .....8.69

How bout you throw their rushing numbers up there as well?? I think when he said "outplayed", he was looking at total production. If after doing so, Frodo's numbers are still better, so be it, no problem.

Luck and Wilson laid huge turds out on the field. Wilson is so lucky Packers defense started celebrating early and started doing Matthews hair for his interview time he thought he'd get.

Kap or luck?
serious?

Originally posted by vaden:
Put Luck on SF three years ago and I have zero doubt we'd have won at least 1 SB, probably 2.

This.
If luck had Gore and Hyde.............

Originally posted by maximusdecimus:

Originally posted by vaden:
Put Luck on SF three years ago and I have zero doubt we'd have won at least 1 SB, probably 2.

This.
If luck had Gore and Hyde.............

Why do some of you persist in this absurdly simplistic perception of how things work in the NFL?

You know, with all the great players on the Niners in the three years of '85, '86 and 87, all they really needed was a better QB and I have zero doubt that they would have won 1 or 2 Super Bowls. A better QB would have made all the difference in the world, right?

Please think about it. It's just not as simple as 'better QB means championship'. It's never that simple.

Originally posted by VDpwndMjenkins:

Originally posted by baltien:

Originally posted by phatbutskinny:

Originally posted by baltien:
I know what I said, do you? At no point did I say anything about Super Bowls until you brought it up. Since neither Kap or Luck have a chip we go with the next best thing which is their postseason record.

And Kap has been better there. No idea why that's so painful for some of you to admit.

Andy Dalton has better passing numbers than Kap. Is he "better" as well? How about Matt Stafford? Or Nick Foles and hell, even Mark Sanchez. Can't forget Carson Palmer and Cam Newton either. Matt Ryan yall.

I could go on all day with all the QB's that have better numbers except the one that matters most:

WINS.

thats interesting, including postseason

Luck - 35-18

Kaepernick: 28 - 16

Luck has a higher winning % than Kap. On top of that you're disregarding the fact that Kap has had a better defense to work with.

BTW, this is not me making an anti-Kap post. I love Kap, I think he can get us to the promise land.....but you're blind if you would choose him over Luck. Even worse, your argument is flawed considering Luck has more wins....

I'm not blind. I know that because I can clearly see that you didn't read my earlier posts and now you're moving the proverbial goalposts (again) to support your argument.

No one said anything about combined regular and postseason winning percentages. Nobody said anything about Super Bowls. Well, nobody said anything about those things until YOU brought them up. The conversation that we were having earlier was about Kap's postseason (<-- operative word) record versus Luck's as a subset of the point that Luck currently (<-- again, so I don't lose you) has yet to prove that he can win when it matters. Kap, for all the criticism he receives has done a MUCH better job of that, easily surpassing all of the young QB's in the league save Russell Wilson.

That is indisputable fact.

Onto your points:

1) Luck has more wins because he's had a year and half longer as a starter. So while what you said is technically true, it's not a fair comparison. However, you stated that Luck has overall a higher winning percentage than Kap and that is true all the same.

2) Let's give the "but the defense" argument a rest, shall we? Here's the final score from all of Kap's postseason games:

2012:

Against the Packers: 45-31

Against the Falcons: 28-24

Against the Ravens: 31-34

2013:

At the Packers: 23-20

At the Panthers: 23-10

At the Seahawks: 17-23

So maybe ONE game that you could say the defense carried it (Panthers). That aside, Kap carried the team when the defense failed, and even when the running game failed. And FWIW, he has yet to be throttled in the postseason the way Luck has TWICE now against New England.

Lord knows that this board would implode before disappearing into a black hole of rage if all Kap could manage was seven points in a playoff game.

Yet Luck is "better".....

Amazing.

Thank you, great post.

Really?

First of all, to base your argument on such a small sample size of postseason records is ridiculous. Not only is it a tiny sample size of 5 or 6 games, they are played against different opponents, with different weapons, with different defenses. Maybe if you give it a few more years, but if you look at the entire body of work, including regular season - Luck has shown that he is the better QB, and will continue to be great. After the read option was figured out, we still don't know if Kap can excel (personally, I think he will, but he's not as good as Luck)

Originally posted by maximusdecimus:

Originally posted by vaden:
Put Luck on SF three years ago and I have zero doubt we'd have won at least 1 SB, probably 2.

This.
If luck had Gore and Hyde.............

you know what. I'm arguing with Baltien that Luck is the better QB than Kap, but I disagree with vaden's claim

Kap took us as far as any QB could have the past 2 years. He was remarkable in the SB run and last year played the Seahawks better than Manning, Brees & Rodgers did. But Luck will probably be the better QB going forward

funny how folks say that the Colts are all Andrew Luck, compared to Kap because of a defense and offense personnel.... yet Luck single handily beat this 49ers defense himself right? and their horrible defense didn't shut down our running game and our offense?

they beat us at home... we were outplayed and were out coached.

I don't understand how some feel Andrew is sooooo smart at QB or high IQ when I've seen him make bad reads that cause team killing INTs... where as I've seen incredible interceptions against Kap, like that Conte diving INT in that Bears game....or countless times defenses ignore our backup WRs and bail their coverage to gamble on where the ball is going to go..... you can say Kap stares down receivers, but Luck does the same...

only thing I see with Luck right now, that he does better than Kap, is controls the secondary with his eyes on occasions... but I blame that more on Harbaugh and our offensive coaches/philosophy.

almost every game, I root for Andrew to do well....but that also allows me to see when he makes bonehead mistakes...

for now, I'm still taking Kap come playoff time.

Andrew and Wilson will get paid BIG time come this offseason... some reports are saying 25mill a season...which is GREAT for us. (Speciffally with the Seahawks)

I was alittle worried that the Hawks were going to lose (which I wanted) but not in the way of Russell looking HORRIBLE.. I thought that would've affected is contract this offseason.......but of cousrse a couple of hail marry plays, Marshawn, Onside kick, Packers F'ning themselves...and credit to Russell two nice deep passes against zero safety help...and Wilson is back to getting paid BIG Time.