NFL eliminating kickoffs?

Originally posted by StOnEy333:

Originally posted by Janitor:
One more glitch in the 4th and 15 concept. Time. Team A scores with 3 seconds left in the game, now they can just run a play and end it, instead of the slim possibility of a KR TD or Team B getting one play.

Wait, WTH are you talking about? What's the 4th and 15 concept?

Greg Schiano proposed replacing the kickoff with a 4th and 15 scenario. That is, the team that scored would have the ball on their own 30 yard line and it would be 4th and 15. They can either punt it or go for it. Goodell even talked to him about it, which is scary.

Originally posted by Janitor:

Originally posted by StOnEy333:

Originally posted by Janitor:

One more glitch in the 4th and 15 concept. Time. Team A scores with 3 seconds left in the game, now they can just run a play and end it, instead of the slim possibility of a KR TD or Team B getting one play.

Wait, WTH are you talking about? What's the 4th and 15 concept?

Greg Schiano proposed replacing the kickoff with a 4th and 15 scenario. That is, the team that scored would have the ball on their own 30 yard line and it would be 4th and 15. They can either punt it or go for it. Goodell even talked to him about it, which is scary.

I think we can all agree that this idea is completely unrealistic. Just because Rog talked to him about it doesn't mean he's considering it. 1 simple reason is it's totally possible for a team to never possess the ball offensively.

Originally posted by StOnEy333:

Originally posted by Janitor:

Originally posted by StOnEy333:

Originally posted by Janitor:
One more glitch in the 4th and 15 concept. Time. Team A scores with 3 seconds left in the game, now they can just run a play and end it, instead of the slim possibility of a KR TD or Team B getting one play.

Wait, WTH are you talking about? What's the 4th and 15 concept?

Greg Schiano proposed replacing the kickoff with a 4th and 15 scenario. That is, the team that scored would have the ball on their own 30 yard line and it would be 4th and 15. They can either punt it or go for it. Goodell even talked to him about it, which is scary.

I think we can all agree that this idea is completely unrealistic. Just because Rog talked to him about it doesn't mean he's considering it. 1 simple reason is it's totally possible for a team to never possess the ball offensively.

Right, I argued with Reign about that in the 24/7 thread a day or two ago.

I don't think this would actually happen, but it's gotten a lot of media attention, so I just wanted to put a few holes in it.

Originally posted by Janitor:

Originally posted by StOnEy333:

Originally posted by Janitor:
One more glitch in the 4th and 15 concept. Time. Team A scores with 3 seconds left in the game, now they can just run a play and end it, instead of the slim possibility of a KR TD or Team B getting one play.

Wait, WTH are you talking about? What's the 4th and 15 concept?

Greg Schiano proposed replacing the kickoff with a 4th and 15 scenario. That is, the team that scored would have the ball on their own 30 yard line and it would be 4th and 15. They can either punt it or go for it. Goodell even talked to him about it, which is scary.

That's the dumbest thing I ever heard. Completely rediculous.

This is just to protect the league when the billion dollar lawsuits come. The NFL can say look we tried to make the game safer, but the players rejected it.

All this shows is he is open to ideas. This one gets the media attention because its so over the top and thought of by the Guy who sends the dogs on the victory formation.

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by Janitor:

Originally posted by StOnEy333:

Originally posted by Janitor:
One more glitch in the 4th and 15 concept. Time. Team A scores with 3 seconds left in the game, now they can just run a play and end it, instead of the slim possibility of a KR TD or Team B getting one play.

Wait, WTH are you talking about? What's the 4th and 15 concept?

Greg Schiano proposed replacing the kickoff with a 4th and 15 scenario. That is, the team that scored would have the ball on their own 30 yard line and it would be 4th and 15. They can either punt it or go for it. Goodell even talked to him about it, which is scary.

That's the dumbest thing I ever heard. Completely rediculous.

The reason for the 4th and 15 from the 30 is so that the scoring team can retain the ball after scoring; similar to an onside kick.

Originally posted by StOnEy333:
I think we can all agree that this idea is completely unrealistic. Just because Rog talked to him about it doesn't mean he's considering it. 1 simple reason is it's totally possible for a team to never possess the ball offensively.

I was making this point to a friend of mines yesterday. With the rules already shamefully heavily tilted in favor of the offense teams with high powered offenses could conceivably be on the field 90% of the game, or more. QB's like the Brady, both Manning Bros., and Brees have offenses designed around consistently taking large chunks of yards. Giving the ball to those QB's, armed with those offenses, on the 30 with an opportunity to keep the ball directly after a score is nakedly unfair. Even the leagues best defenses would have serious trouble getting off the field, especially if QB's like them get the ball first. And if small-time coaches, football purist like myself can see this I'm sure the NFL executives can. If they do this it will cheapen the game and the NFL brand. This idea is sooo bad in sooo many different ways. For me, it just won't be watchable.

Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:
The reason for the 4th and 15 from the 30 is so that the scoring team can retain the ball after scoring; similar to an onside kick.

There is no moral equivalence between converting a 4th & 15 and converting an on-side-kick (not that you were making that argument). The former is MUCH easier than the latter to convert. So while the stats may be the same between the two the stats don't tell the whole story.

Originally posted by LasVegasWally:

It would be terrible.

Kick offs add an exciting element to the game.

punts do but the kick-offs dont, at least not since the last rule change. usually nothing happens during a return whereas a punt could be punted crappy and is in general more difficult in execution.
schiano proposed to give the kicking team an opportunity to retain possession by converting the 4th and 15...there u have your onside-kick

Originally posted by communist:
punts do but the kick-offs dont, at least not since the last rule change. usually nothing happens during a return whereas a punt could be punted crappy and is in general more difficult in execution.
schiano proposed to give the kicking team an opportunity to retain possession by converting the 4th and 15...there u have your onside-kick

Here's a thought: Since people are drawing statistical comparisons between on-side-kick and 4th & 15 then why not mandate that every team do an on-side-kick after every score? If the two are TRULY the same then instituting post-score on-side-kicks would be a better option given the players are already acclimated to them. Seems to me that it'll be much easier to do rather than introducing unnecessary new aspects to the game. Plus it would achieve the same goal. Now don't get me wrong, I'M NOT IN FAVOR OF THAT EITHER!! Both are equally ridiculous. They should just leave the f_cking game alone already.

a down can be executed in a more exciting than an onside kick...i mean, fake punt, any kind of another trick play, conservative call and so on. whereas a kick is still a kick where a lot of luck is in play, less strategy.

If punting is so much "safer" why not lose the kickoff and just replace it with a punt? Want an onside kick just pooch punt it? No fake punts allowed if a bad snap and can't get the ball off throw out of bounds and asses a penalty like a kickoff that goes out of bounds. If a team blocks it ohh well good for them. If kicking team recovers a blocked punt they keep it.

Originally posted by StOnEy333:

Originally posted by DVDA:

Originally posted by StOnEy333:

I heard them say today that the kickoffs would be replaced with punts. So it would just be like the play after a safety instead of just giving the ball to the other team at the 20. Nobody loses their job (special teams players), and you could still onside kick it if you needed to.

That is somehow going to magically change the play? It will be exactly the same besides the way the ball is kicked off. Players would still be running full speed downfield to make a tackle, just like a kickoff. The NFL is being ran by a bunch of morons...

Actually, that's not exactly true. The ball is kicked farther on a kick off, which gives the players more time to build up speed for the collisions. Also, punts are kicked higher, allowing players to get closer to the kick returner before the ball gets there. Ultimately resulting in more fair catches.


I can see the logic in this. I don't agree with it, but I can see where they're coming from.

First, what evidence is there that kickoffs are the problem? I can't remember when the last time I saw a concussion occur on a kick off. Is there any evidence, at all, whatsoever that kickoffs are the problem? Where is the evidence for that? I don't think there is any. None. Zero. Zilch. Getting rid of kickoffs will do ZERO to change how many concussions or injuries occur.

Where does that thought come from? What difference does it make if a safety hits a WR from a 20 yd open field sprint Vs. a kickoff collision? Players do not continue to accelerate the entire distance of covering a kick off. Once they reach top speed, thats it.......20 yds vs 30 yds vs. 50 yds doesn't matter. Its moronic to think that a kickoff is somehow more dangerous because of the distances involved. A Safety plays (generally) 10-12 yds off the LOS. The HB can be as deep as 5-8 yds behind the LOS with a distance between the two about 10-15yds on any given play. How is typical situation any different, better or worse then a kick off?


There is no logic in this.

And the NFL is run by a bunch of morons.

Roger Goodell is a horrible commissioner. He needs to leave the game alone.