NFL DRAFT and Race

Originally posted by GangstaGangsta:
Isn't assuming everyone is subconsciously racist a form of built in bias? We can't fully appreciate one another and end racism if we are constantly telling people that they are racist when it doesn't apply

Originally posted by DaBeegDeek:
It also doesnt end when you ignore it. I dont necessarily think its racism, either, I think its stereotyping... which isnt mutually exclusive and sometimes happens subconsciously without the person knowing. A perfect example being Stephen A Smith calling Haskins mobile and athletic (lol).

I understand those not wanting to talk about it because it makes them uncomfortable or because they dont see it, but you have to be willing to listen.

People bringing it up when it doesn't belong makes it harder for people to listen. Especially when it's done over and over

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by DaBeegDeek:
It also doesnt end when you ignore it. I dont necessarily think its racism, either, I think its stereotyping... which isnt mutually exclusive and sometimes happens subconsciously without the person knowing. A perfect example being Stephen A Smith calling Haskins mobile and athletic (lol).

I understand those not wanting to talk about it because it makes them uncomfortable or because they dont see it, but you have to be willing to listen.

People bringing it up when it doesn't belong makes it harder for people to listen. Especially when it's done over and over

I mean, that's your opinion. I think its justifiable to listen to when its brought up. You state your logic, I state mine... we compromise in the middle or we dont, that's the point of discussion.

It was brought up this year because of the inaccurate and false analysis of Fields and the damaging statements made about his character even though hes been an excellent quarterback and person.

Now, when you compare the baseless claims of his character to Jones' DUI and body or Lawrence's recent quotes about not being that competitive or loving football... well, its interesting that no one sees those as potential issues.

That's all I'm saying... nothing wrong with a healthy discussion, you saying "it doesnt exist stop crying" isnt a conversation.

Originally posted by genus49:
I don't think teams would take a player off their board because he's a black QB. I think this stuff is more prevalent in draft media and casual fans who tend to do no research/watching of their own and take everything from ESPN or talking heads.

I think when it's all said and done both Fields and Lance go early(hopefully Fields is our guy) but when you have guys like Carrely mocking Fields in the 20s something is really wrong.

That's because so many of these guys in draft media don't actually watch any games. They just don't, they listen to what others around them are saying, they watch a few clips and they pronounce a judgment. Its how I knew so many of the takes on Lamar Jackson were b******t a few years ago. People had looked at some of his sophomore performances and came to a conclusion based entirely on that. They missed the tremendous improvement he made in his junior season.

There's very few people that I trust actually watch the games they say they watch and among that small group I put people like Greg Cosell, Dane Brugler, Daniel Jeremiah, Ian Wharton and a few others. Overall a lot of this stuff is just for entertainment, its very hit and miss with a lot more miss which makes sense when you accept that all these guys are dealing with incomplete information, not having access to the vast amounts of data that NFL teams get.

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by DaBeegDeek:
It also doesnt end when you ignore it. I dont necessarily think its racism, either, I think its stereotyping... which isnt mutually exclusive and sometimes happens subconsciously without the person knowing. A perfect example being Stephen A Smith calling Haskins mobile and athletic (lol).

I understand those not wanting to talk about it because it makes them uncomfortable or because they dont see it, but you have to be willing to listen.

People bringing it up when it doesn't belong makes it harder for people to listen. Especially when it's done over and over

I'd argue that denial is more prevalent than people getting called out.

Though I can see your point, I called one guy out for a questionable post who was then flat out racist and banned a week later.

I like that this thread was created as the discussion is much better outside of the player threads, but I am disappointed it only has 8 pages.

Originally posted by DaBeegDeek:
I mean, that's your opinion. I think its justifiable to listen to when its brought up. You state your logic, I state mine... we compromise in the middle or we dont, that's the point of discussion.

It was brought up this year because of the inaccurate and false analysis of Fields and the damaging statements made about his character even though hes been an excellent quarterback and person.

Now, when you compare the baseless claims of his character to Jones' DUI and body or Lawrence's recent quotes about not being that competitive or loving football... well, its interesting that no one sees those as potential issues.

That's all I'm saying... nothing wrong with a healthy discussion, you saying "it doesnt exist stop crying" isnt a conversation.

Out of curiosity what character concerns about Fields are you referring to?

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by DaBeegDeek:
I mean, that's your opinion. I think its justifiable to listen to when its brought up. You state your logic, I state mine... we compromise in the middle or we dont, that's the point of discussion.

It was brought up this year because of the inaccurate and false analysis of Fields and the damaging statements made about his character even though hes been an excellent quarterback and person.

Now, when you compare the baseless claims of his character to Jones' DUI and body or Lawrence's recent quotes about not being that competitive or loving football... well, its interesting that no one sees those as potential issues.

That's all I'm saying... nothing wrong with a healthy discussion, you saying "it doesnt exist stop crying" isnt a conversation.

Out of curiosity what character concerns about Fields are you referring to?

"Last in, first out" ... "poor work ethic"
The rumor Dan Orlovsky spread.

Originally posted by DaBeegDeek:
"Last in, first out" ... "poor work ethic"
The rumor Dan Orlovsky spread.

And like a hundred people jumped all over him for it.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by DaBeegDeek:
"Last in, first out" ... "poor work ethic"
The rumor Dan Orlovsky spread.

And like a hundred people jumped all over him for it.

Yeah, and rightfully so. That doesnt change the fact, though. FWIW, I dont think Orlovsky is a racist... I think hes a young insider who heard something and wanted to be the one to put it out there. Somebody was probably using him because they didnt want to attach their name to it and he was dumb enough to bite.

But how did the rumor even surface? Did someone actually hear something? Is it born out of a stereotype? Was it a smokescreen from another team to get him to drop? These are all questions worth asking, IMO, and not just sweep under the rug.

Originally posted by DaBeegDeek:
Yeah, and rightfully so. That doesnt change the fact, though. FWIW, I dont think Orlovsky is a racist... I think hes a young insider who heard something and wanted to be the one to put it out there. Somebody was probably using him because they didnt want to attach their name to it and he was dumb enough to bite.

But how did the rumor even surface? Did someone actually hear something? Is it born out of a stereotype? Was it a smokescreen from another team to get him to drop? These are all questions worth asking, IMO, and not just sweep under the rug.

Because clicks sell. Remember when Baker Mayfield was a "bad teammate" and all those reports started coming out despite his actual teammates and coaches calling it b******t? Baker Mayfield might have some douchey tendencies but it was pretty clear that all his teammates freaking loved the guy so when those reports started coming out that went against the general narrative, the pro-Baker people got mad as hell about it.

There are two schools of thought WRT the kind of QB Shanahan covets...one camp says he doesn't want a playmaker. In the past he's had Cousins in WA, Ryan in Atl and Jimmy G in SF. All white QB's with little escape ability and certainly no real running ability to get a 1st down when it's needed. Times change, people change, coaches change...and I see the more athletic QB's becoming more "normal" for the NFL than ever before. I believe Shanahan understands the potential value in a more athletic QB now. As it's turning out 2 of the 3 QB's the Niners are likely to have in their sights in this draft are black. I think Fields is the guy. Love Lance, too, but think Justin's 2 yrs as a starter become the trump card. Either QB can be elite in the NFL, which is awesome. I look forward to seeing Justin Fields lead our team for many years. It's time.

Jameis Winston off field issues. Drafted #1 overall.

In November 2012, while playing around with B.B. guns on two different occasions, Winston caused $4,200 in damages to a Tallahassee, Fla., complex.

• The following month, a fellow Florida State student, Erica Kinsman, accused Winston of sexual assault. Winston, a freshman at the time, called it consensual and a year later, the State Attorney's office opted against charging Winston, citing "problematic" testimony by his accuser.

In July 2013, Winston was accused of stealing soda from a Tallahassee Burger King. The manager decided not to press charges.

• In April 2014, Winston was suspended from Florida State's baseball team after shoplifting crab legs from a Publix.

• In September of the same year, Winston served a one-game suspension for jumping on a table and yelling vulgar remarks on campus.

• In April 2015 — the same month that the Bucs drafted Winston first overall — Kinsman filed a civil suit against Winston for the 2012 incident. They reached a settlement in December of 2016.

Kyle Murray homophobic tweets while 14 or 15. Drafted 1st overall.


Cam Newton, stealing cheating. Drafted 1st overall

Oh and look at what he said about his arrest.

Newton was charged with felony counts of burglary, larceny and obstructing justice. He posted his police mug shot on the nine-year anniversary of his arrest Tuesday, saying he did it to show others that people can rebound from the mistakes.

"A lot of me changed that day, for obvious reasons," Newton said during a news conference on Wednesday. "My biggest scar, in essence, ended up being my biggest star."

But yea, if Justin Fields said the Lawrence thing or Dui like Jones.

Originally posted by krizay:
People bringing it up when it doesn't belong makes it harder for people to listen. Especially when it's done over and over

Agreed

Originally posted by DaBeegDeek:
I mean, that's your opinion. I think its justifiable to listen to when its brought up. You state your logic, I state mine... we compromise in the middle or we dont, that's the point of discussion.

It was brought up this year because of the inaccurate and false analysis of Fields and the damaging statements made about his character even though hes been an excellent quarterback and person.

Now, when you compare the baseless claims of his character to Jones' DUI and body or Lawrence's recent quotes about not being that competitive or loving football... well, its interesting that no one sees those as potential issues.

That's all I'm saying... nothing wrong with a healthy discussion, you saying "it doesnt exist stop crying" isnt a conversation.

Agreed

Even if the opinions don't change following discussion it is still good to hear each others side.

Does everyone remember what it felt like the months/years following 9/11? That's the last time I can remember everyone being considered American not white or black and genuinely caring about one another. We were UNITED. Now we live in a echo chamber where media dictates everything. We can choose what to watch/read whatever will back up the point we are trying to get across rather than formulate a opinion on what we actually see in real life.

I hope we can get back to those post 9/11 vibes one day without a tragic event being the reason for it.

Originally posted by GangstaGangsta:
Agreed

Agreed

Even if the opinions don't change following discussion it is still good to hear each others side.

Does everyone remember what it felt like the months/years following 9/11? That's the last time I can remember everyone being considered American not white or black and genuinely caring about one another. We were UNITED. Now we live in a echo chamber where media dictates everything. We can choose what to watch/read whatever will back up the point we are trying to get across rather than formulate a opinion on what we actually see in real life.

I hope we can get back to those post 9/11 vibes one day without a tragic event being the reason for it.

The events of January 6th tell me there's a long way still to go for that to happen.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by GangstaGangsta:
Agreed

Agreed

Even if the opinions don't change following discussion it is still good to hear each others side.

Does everyone remember what it felt like the months/years following 9/11? That's the last time I can remember everyone being considered American not white or black and genuinely caring about one another. We were UNITED. Now we live in a echo chamber where media dictates everything. We can choose what to watch/read whatever will back up the point we are trying to get across rather than formulate a opinion on what we actually see in real life.

I hope we can get back to those post 9/11 vibes one day without a tragic event being the reason for it.

The events of January 6th tell me there's a long way still to go for that to happen.

Yup, unfortunately I only see things getting worse if I'm being completely honest.