NFL DRAFT and Race

This may be better in the Parking Lot so move as you wish. Maybe this will help the race-hijacking of the QB threads as there is always subconscious decisions made by teams when it comes to race.

Anyone using Race as a pro or con is ridiculous.

Originally posted by Strwy2Hevn:
Anyone using Race as a pro or con is ridiculous.

It's real but let's hope we can discuss it without getting overly passionate or without thinking that it doesn't occur.

The other contrast that we have seen are white skill position players being over drafted because of their combine numbers.

Matt Jones comes to mind.

Originally posted by Joecool:
This may be better in the Parking Lot so move as you wish. Maybe this will help the race-hijacking of the QB threads as there is always subconscious decisions made by teams when it comes to race.

I appreciate you trying to get the race discussion out of the individual player threads. I hope this goes well.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by Joecool:
This may be better in the Parking Lot so move as you wish. Maybe this will help the race-hijacking of the QB threads as there is always subconscious decisions made by teams when it comes to race.

I appreciate you trying to get the race discussion out of the individual player threads. I hope this goes well.

When you can change white quarterback to Mac Jones and nothing about this statement chances then maybe it does belong in the players thread.

I was actually considering making a thread on this. I think its a real thing. There are certain perceptions about black qbs that the general public seems to have. Of course Mac is the cerebral guy and Justin in the one read guy, even if there is no evidence to the latter. Even if it's subconscious, to think that race is not a factor is ignorant thinking. Race is almost a factor in every part of life unfortunately, many employers don't hire certain people cause of their race alone. It's a thing that is out there. I don't think this topic has been brought out in the limelight until lamar Jackson came out. Many people thought he should've switched to WR, which is ridiculous now, but it was a real thing. Yeah he still has a lot to work on to be a better passer, but he did win an mvp as a qb. If lamar Jackson was a pasty white dude with the same type of athleticism I bet you he would've been drafted higher. Not because teams are overtly racist but there is this subconscious perception about QB and race.

And on the flipside, I think it's the same reasoning on why there are no white corners I can think of that have played in the last 10 years. I think its cause of the perception that white guys aren't very athletic for the position so if they wanna play DB it's as a safety.

Maybe I'm just talking out of my ass but these are my thoughts on this topic.

Originally posted by Waterbear:

If Justin Fields wants us to draft him, he should imitate Kirk Cousins and yell "You like that!?" after each throw at his pro day.

Originally posted by 49ersRing:
If Justin Fields wants us to draft him, he should imitate Kirk Cousins and yell "You like that!?" after each throw at his pro day.

lol

Originally posted by gold49digger:
Of course Mac is the cerebral guy and Justin in the one read guy, even if there is no evidence to the latter. E

Can you post examples of this from competent evaluators? I don't think I've seen a single evaluator say that Justin Fields is a one-read QB. I've seen fans say this, which most football fans have no damn clue what they're watching, and then other fans regurgitate it.

Also, one-read QB and slow processing are not the same things. It's glaring to anyone watching the film with even a *semblance of football knowledge* that Justin Fields is not a one-read QB.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by Joecool:
This may be better in the Parking Lot so move as you wish. Maybe this will help the race-hijacking of the QB threads as there is always subconscious decisions made by teams when it comes to race.

I appreciate you trying to get the race discussion out of the individual player threads. I hope this goes well.

Mods moved warnings and ban button on the table.

Originally posted by gold49digger:
I was actually considering making a thread on this. I think its a real thing. There are certain perceptions about black qbs that the general public seems to have. Of course Mac is the cerebral guy and Justin in the one read guy, even if there is no evidence to the latter. Even if it's subconscious, to think that race is not a factor is ignorant thinking. Race is almost a factor in every part of life unfortunately, many employers don't hire certain people cause of their race alone. It's a thing that is out there. I don't think this topic has been brought out in the limelight until lamar Jackson came out. Many people thought he should've switched to WR, which is ridiculous now, but it was a real thing. Yeah he still has a lot to work on to be a better passer, but he did win an mvp as a qb. If lamar Jackson was a pasty white dude with the same type of athleticism I bet you he would've been drafted higher. Not because teams are overtly racist but there is this subconscious perception about QB and race.

And on the flipside, I think it's the same reasoning on why there are no white corners I can think of that have played in the last 10 years. I think its cause of the perception that white guys aren't very athletic for the position so if they wanna play DB it's as a safety.

Maybe I'm just talking out of my ass but these are my thoughts on this topic.

There's no reason why that wouldn't apply to Mac Jones. The guy is 22 with a Master's degree. It takes some semblance of intelligence and work ethic to accomplish that. Like when Alex Smith received his bachelor's in two years. Sarkisian came out and said that he was able to open up his playroom far more with Jones than any other QB he's coached in college.

In this case while it might be a stereotype, it also happens to be accurate.

I haven't heard many comments challenging Fields intelligence. There's no evidence that he's lacking in that area whatsoever. The main tangible criticisms I've heard about him are related to his ability to identify blitzes and presnap recognition. That isn't an intelligence issue as much as a familiarity issue, a coaching issue, film study issue, experience issue.

Overall intelligence is also greatly overrated when it comes to QBs. Ryan Fitzpatrick scored a 50 on the Wonderlic. I think Kaepernick scored 38. Jim Kelly and Dan Marino scored around 15. Many great QBs scored 25 or less. I think there's a base level of intelligence needed to absorb a playroom but otherwise it's just playing on instincts in the moment.

To be a great QB, you need to be able to function and process quickly under extreme pressure. You don't need to be a rocket scientist for that, just someone that keeps their s**t together when stressed and is quick on their feet. I think that ability is innate, its God given and not learned. It's true in every facet of life too. Some people just handle stress and high pressure situations better than others.

If you have the prerequisite talent, work ethic and ability to consistently function at a high level under the bright lights with 300+ pound men trying to bury you into the turf, you have the necessary ingredients to be a great quarterback.

Originally posted by Waterbear:

I'm pretty sure if fields was a white guy he'd go in the top 2. Unfortunately the NFL still judges QBs differently because of race. The black QB is still looked at as an athlete first and people doubt his ability to read defenses.

Originally posted by susweel:
I'm pretty sure if fields was a white guy he'd go in the top 2. Unfortunately the NFL still judges QBs differently because of race. The black QB is still looked at as an athlete first and people doubt his ability to read defenses.

Its not like Fields is dropping to the end of the 1st round. He's still very likely to go to the 49ers, if not them then at #4 to the Falcons or some team that moves up. I put him ahead of Lance just based on the experience factor. Between Fields and Wilson its largely a coin flip. Some people prefer Wilson, some people prefer Fields and you can make a good case for either one really.

Other than Lamar Jackson, I can't think of any Black QB's that were unexpectedly passed over. Guys have gone more or less where they should have and Jackson was a unique case where you really have to build your offense around him rather than having him be a plug and play piece into your existing scheme. He did get criticized unfairly based on his sophomore game performances when he had shown incredible improvement as a passer in his junior season, He's definitely someone that should have gone at least fifteen picks earlier.

Mahomes was coming out of an Air Raid scheme that had failed to produce any sort of productive quarterbacks in the NFL and even Jared Goff was looking like a massive bust at that time in the pre-McVay days. Teams were giving him the side eye due to the scheme and how it was believed to not properly prepare quarterbacks for the NFL level.

With Watson the issue seemed to focus far more on his throwing velocity numbers than anything else. People were stuck on him throwing that 49mph or whatever it was and that issue seemed to take on a whole life of its own altogether.

Dak Prescott probably went later than he rightfully should but he also was carrying the burden of being a Mullen QB and the Tebow comparisons, mostly unflattering, were flying fast and furiously, even on this forum. It was the same sort of mindset as you're seeing with people arguing that Ohio State QB's and Bama QB's haven't had success in the NFL. Prescott was getting dinged for something that had f**k all to do with him because of a guy that played years before him.

Beyond that, Jameis Winston went #1, EJ Manuel kind of came out nowhere to be the top QB picked in 2013, you had RG3 going #2 in 2012 and Cam going #1 in 2011. Josh Freeman was a mid 1st in 2009 and the Walrus went #1 in 2007. Not all of those QB's were successful but all those guys went roughly where you would expect that they would have gone.