Williams vs. Allen

If the Cardinals plan on drafting Bosa like most of us think they will, then the debate will be Williams vs. Allen. Whether you think Allen is a better fit than Williams or vice versa is really a moot point because it really depends on how the team ends up using them. For instance when we drafted Willis years ago, the debate was Willis vs. Carriker and when we drafted Willis the Rams ended up drafting Carriker. Some would argue that he didn't pan out for them maybe because they moved him from DE (position in college) to DT. I think the bottom line is who do you think the 49ers would put in the best position to succeed, Williams or Allen?

That's an interesting take and it really depends how much sway Kuraceck has and how good of a coach he is.

As long as Allen plays in the wide 9 role in all our Nickel packages, whilst playing some SAM in base it's very close for me.

Quinnen wants to trim down, become even more explosive and train like Donald. That won't necessarily help him at NT, but next to Buck he'll have plenty of opportunities.

So to answer your question I just about lean QW.

I'm still not convinced that's enough to draft him given how barren our edge rush is.

If they're going to use Josh Allen for what he is--a defensive weapon, then I pick Josh Allen. He's not a guy you just line up at edge, tell him to attack the QB and forget about. That's Nick Bosa.

Josh Allen becomes a focal point of game plans. He's a defensive chest piece. He's the resurrection of the elephant position. Allen can be the D-gap force player over the tight end that drops into a curl-flat or sinks into a strong hook zone on a buzz call. He gives Saleh the flexibility to call aggressive man coverages by having the ability to stick on a RB or TE. He can be used to make a receiver(TE/WR/RB)'s day long by following him around and using that big, long body to obstruct releases or bracket in coverage. Allen can be lined up over all kinds of gaps and spots and sent on a barrage of twists, loopers and games and myriads of ambiguous blitzes that are hard to decipher and baffle Goff's brain. One second he's at edge, next he's in the strong hook next to Fred Warner, and then he's twisting gaps with Defo from C to A.

And of course, he'll come flying off the edge like bat out of hell. He'll do that a lot.

Originally posted by Heroism:

If they're going to use Josh Allen for what he is--a defensive weapon, then I pick Josh Allen. He's not a guy you just line up at edge, tell him to attack the QB and forget about. That's Nick Bosa.

Josh Allen becomes a focal point of game plans. He's a defensive chest piece. He's the resurrection of the elephant position. Allen can be the D-gap force player over the tight end that drops into a curl-flat or sinks into a strong hook zone on a buzz call. He gives Saleh the flexibility to call aggressive man coverages by having the ability to stick on a RB or TE. He can be used to make a receiver(TE/WR/RB)'s day long by following him around and using that big, long body to obstruct releases or bracket in coverage. Allen can be lined up over all kinds of gaps and spots and sent on a barrage of twists, loopers and games and myriads of ambiguous blitzes that are hard to decipher and baffle Goff's brain. One second he's at edge, next he's in the strong hook next to Fred Warner, and then he's twisting gaps with Defo from C to B.

And of course, he'll come flying off the edge like bat out of hell. He'll do that a lot.

Basically you are saying the WZ will be calling for Saleh's head everytime they drop him in coverage.

Originally posted by Heroism:
If they're going to use Josh Allen for what he is--a defensive weapon, then I pick Josh Allen. He's not a guy you just line up at edge, tell him to attack the QB and forget about. That's Nick Bosa.

Josh Allen becomes a focal point of game plans. He's a defensive chest piece. He's the resurrection of the elephant position. Allen can be the D-gap force player over the tight end that drops into a curl-flat or sinks into a strong hook zone on a buzz call. He gives Saleh the flexibility to call aggressive man coverages by having the ability to stick on a RB or TE. He can be used to make a receiver(TE/WR/RB)'s day long by following him around and using that big, long body to obstruct releases or bracket in coverage. Allen can be lined up over all kinds of gaps and spots and sent on a barrage of twists, loopers and games and myriads of ambiguous blitzes that are hard to decipher and baffle Goff's brain. One second he's at edge, next he's in the strong hook next to Fred Warner, and then he's twisting gaps with Defo from C to B.

And of course, he'll come flying off the edge like bat out of hell. He'll do that a lot.

all that is why I like Allen over any of the other top D guys.

Originally posted by dj43:

all that is why I like Allen over any of the other top D guys.

Including Bosa?

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by Heroism:

If they're going to use Josh Allen for what he is--a defensive weapon, then I pick Josh Allen. He's not a guy you just line up at edge, tell him to attack the QB and forget about. That's Nick Bosa.

Josh Allen becomes a focal point of game plans. He's a defensive chest piece. He's the resurrection of the elephant position. Allen can be the D-gap force player over the tight end that drops into a curl-flat or sinks into a strong hook zone on a buzz call. He gives Saleh the flexibility to call aggressive man coverages by having the ability to stick on a RB or TE. He can be used to make a receiver(TE/WR/RB)'s day long by following him around and using that big, long body to obstruct releases or bracket in coverage. Allen can be lined up over all kinds of gaps and spots and sent on a barrage of twists, loopers and games and myriads of ambiguous blitzes that are hard to decipher and baffle Goff's brain. One second he's at edge, next he's in the strong hook next to Fred Warner, and then he's twisting gaps with Defo from C to B.

And of course, he'll come flying off the edge like bat out of hell. He'll do that a lot.

all that is why I like Allen over any of the other top D guys.

It's great to have an excellent chess piece like this IF you have a coaching staff that knows how to use him. Do any of you trust our defensive staff to put Allen in favorable positions to exploit matchups?

If we had a more experienced DC, I'd be on the Allen bandwagon, but I don't see him being used properly here and I feel that if we select Quinnen, there is nothing our defensive coaches can do to screw up his development. No matter where you put Q he's going to eat. Basically he's fool proof.

Originally posted by Nastastical:

It's great to have an excellent chess piece like this IF you have a coaching staff that knows how to use him. Do any of you trust our defensive staff to put Allen in favorable positions to exploit matchups?

If we had a more experienced DC, I'd be on the Allen bandwagon, but I don't see him being used properly here and I feel that if we select Quinnen, there is nothing our defensive coaches can do to screw up his development. No matter where you put Q he's going to eat. Basically he's fool proof.

Meh I don't think our defensive staff is stupid. Saleh does know how to use Lbers, our new DL coach has worked with some good pass rushers, and I don't think people understand how well kyle understands how a defense works because he does.

I know you got an affection for QW rightfully so he's good, I don't think he's gonna be the pick for a couple reasons end of the day.

Originally posted by Rise2Glory:

If the Cardinals plan on drafting Bosa like most of us think they will, then the debate will be Williams vs. Allen. Whether you think Allen is a better fit than Williams or vice versa is really a moot point because it really depends on how the team ends up using them. For instance when we drafted Willis years ago, the debate was Willis vs. Carriker and when we drafted Willis the Rams ended up drafting Carriker. Some would argue that he didn't pan out for them maybe because they moved him from DE (position in college) to DT. I think the bottom line is who do you think the 49ers would put in the best position to succeed, Williams or Allen?

To me this is why i dont really want either. Though wouldn't throw a vernon Davis type fit if we selected either as well.

People are talking about QW as a NT. I dont think he is a NT in our defense. Just like i dont think Allen is a true LEO.

Hero makes a VERY compelling case for Allen. Makes you think "DUDE!!, we need Allen". Unfortunately, i think we all know that's not happening.

Although we took a FS and turned him into a CB and a CB into a FS. A DT to play LEO. So i can see us drafting one of these guys and expecting it to work seamlessly.

I like both players and I think both will be great in the NFL . The other day matt barrows was saying that the niners wont even consider draft QW because they don't want to move deforest buckner from his spot they want to keep him at 3-tech and that they have no interest in draft QW to play him at NT . Robert saleh just isn't interested doing that . This guy on knbr today was saying that he thinks that josh allen is gonna be a star and he looks like a NBA player and athlete on the field and that they don't make them like him anymore he is all muscle and he is mature and the niners will fall in love with him .

Originally posted by Heroism:

If they're going to use Josh Allen for what he is--a defensive weapon, then I pick Josh Allen. He's not a guy you just line up at edge, tell him to attack the QB and forget about. That's Nick Bosa.

Josh Allen becomes a focal point of game plans. He's a defensive chest piece. He's the resurrection of the elephant position. Allen can be the D-gap force player over the tight end that drops into a curl-flat or sinks into a strong hook zone on a buzz call. He gives Saleh the flexibility to call aggressive man coverages by having the ability to stick on a RB or TE. He can be used to make a receiver(TE/WR/RB)'s day long by following him around and using that big, long body to obstruct releases or bracket in coverage. Allen can be lined up over all kinds of gaps and spots and sent on a barrage of twists, loopers and games and myriads of ambiguous blitzes that are hard to decipher and baffle Goff's brain. One second he's at edge, next he's in the strong hook next to Fred Warner, and then he's twisting gaps with Defo from C to A.

And of course, he'll come flying off the edge like bat out of hell. He'll do that a lot.

Spoken like a student of the game

Originally posted by Nastastical:

It's great to have an excellent chess piece like this IF you have a coaching staff that knows how to use him. Do any of you trust our defensive staff to put Allen in favorable positions to exploit matchups?

If we had a more experienced DC, I'd be on the Allen bandwagon, but I don't see him being used properly here and I feel that if we select Quinnen, there is nothing our defensive coaches can do to screw up his development. No matter where you put Q he's going to eat. Basically he's fool proof.

I kinda feel like no matter where they put Allen he's going to eat too, basically fool proof as well. I mean he did just that this season eating all over the field in coverage and in the backfield

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by Nastastical:

It's great to have an excellent chess piece like this IF you have a coaching staff that knows how to use him. Do any of you trust our defensive staff to put Allen in favorable positions to exploit matchups?

If we had a more experienced DC, I'd be on the Allen bandwagon, but I don't see him being used properly here and I feel that if we select Quinnen, there is nothing our defensive coaches can do to screw up his development. No matter where you put Q he's going to eat. Basically he's fool proof.

I kinda feel like no matter where they put Allen he's going to eat too, basically fool proof as well. I mean he did just that this season eating all over the field in coverage and in the backfield

Allen is too boom or bust to be foolproof. There are many things that can lead to him failing and after Solomon Thomas, I don't trust our defensive minds to turn an athlete into a football player.

I hope I'm wrong because if Bosa is gone, he's probably going to be the pick and I'll never root for any Niner to fail. I just think we'll end up regretting taking him over Q For the next decade as we watch Q dominate his way towards a hall of fame type career.

i haven't seen both players play, but from my understanding

Allen=versatility

Williams=dominance.

I would pick allen but you can't go wrong with either player.

Originally posted by Tylerawiseguy:

I like both players and I think both will be great in the NFL . The other day matt barrows was saying that the niners wont even consider draft QW because they don't want to move deforest buckner from his spot they want to keep him at 3-tech and that they have no interest in draft QW to play him at NT . Robert saleh just isn't interested doing that . This guy on knbr today was saying that he thinks that josh allen is gonna be a star and he looks like a NBA player and athlete on the field and that they don't make them like him anymore he is all muscle and he is mature and the niners will fall in love with him .

But Salah already called him out for missing senior bowl