Nick Bosa, EDGE, Ohio St(The Politics Free Thread)

Originally posted by bopicksix:

Originally posted by evil:

One cannot play with a torn ACL or the core injury Nick suffered.

Joey has missed time for a hamstring and a foot injury. But he played through most of a season with a dislocated finger that refused to heal properly and had to have surgery in the off-season to repair.

So what exactly is their injury philosophy?

Wasnt Joey cleared to play early last year? He opted to get 2nd and 3rd opinions and made the decision to sit out until week 11. The chargers expected him and planned for him to play opening day and carried the uncertainty from week to week for half the season. Left hanging. None of the drs found anything that amounted to more than a bone bruise which 99% of nfl players would play through.

Lisfranc injury is reportedly the issue with that foot.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by theduke85:
I disagree. I think genetics without question play a role in durability. Physicians use family history extensively when determining risk factors.

I mean, look at something as simple as tooth health: studies suggest that genetics play somewhere between a 40-60% role in tooth decay. Meaning, all things equal -- identical diet, identical brushing habits, etc -- some people are much more likely to get cavities, because their genetics produce weaker and more susceptible enamel.

Obviously sometimes injuries are going to happen no matter what, but without a doubt some people have a genetic predisposition to getting hurt.

Dude now we're talking about tooth decay?

lol

Originally posted by Wolf_Packer_53:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by Rascal:
Pretty much my assessment on the guy too, high floor low ceiling guy. Like I have always said, this guy ain't no Von Miller. For what is worth, he won't bust out like Solomon Thomas, he will be able to contribute to some degree, but he is no dominant game changer if that is what you are after. I have nothing against the guy, he seems like a pretty chilled dude.

I think one of the reasons Haley was so good was he always had a good DT by his side. In Dallas, he had Russell Maryland. With the 49ers he had Subblefield, Holt and Michael Carter. I think you have to evaluate what team Bosa will play in to really get the feel of how he might do from a high ceiling standpoint. Look at Myles Garrett he was ordinary in his first year and elite his second year and I think one of the reasons is the development of the DT next to him in Larry Ogunjobi. With Buckner already at an elite level - I think Bosa's ceiling can be as high as any of our Yellow Jacket guys of days past. Give Bosa some good man coverage DB's to give him time to get to the QB, pay Buckner $100 million, and Bosa's ceiling is way up there, in my opinion.

This. Look no further then Aldon Smith. He was a MONSTER when paired with the Cowboy. When Cowboy went down coupled with Aldon's issues there was a major drop off in his production. I think Aldon still would have been a very good player if it weren't for his troubles but I attribute the short period of his greatness to him having Cowboy right next to him.

The only person that stopped Aldon was Aldon, his success had a little to do with the system and a lot to do with his freakish athletic ability. He would destroy guys with his first step, J. Smith & Aldon were a great duo but I wouldn't give anyone else Aldon's credit as the team looked different as soon as he showed up!

Originally posted by glorydayz:

Originally posted by Wolf_Packer_53:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by Rascal:

Pretty much my assessment on the guy too, high floor low ceiling guy. Like I have always said, this guy ain't no Von Miller. For what is worth, he won't bust out like Solomon Thomas, he will be able to contribute to some degree, but he is no dominant game changer if that is what you are after. I have nothing against the guy, he seems like a pretty chilled dude.

I think one of the reasons Haley was so good was he always had a good DT by his side. In Dallas, he had Russell Maryland. With the 49ers he had Subblefield, Holt and Michael Carter. I think you have to evaluate what team Bosa will play in to really get the feel of how he might do from a high ceiling standpoint. Look at Myles Garrett he was ordinary in his first year and elite his second year and I think one of the reasons is the development of the DT next to him in Larry Ogunjobi. With Buckner already at an elite level - I think Bosa's ceiling can be as high as any of our Yellow Jacket guys of days past. Give Bosa some good man coverage DB's to give him time to get to the QB, pay Buckner $100 million, and Bosa's ceiling is way up there, in my opinion.

This. Look no further then Aldon Smith. He was a MONSTER when paired with the Cowboy. When Cowboy went down coupled with Aldon's issues there was a major drop off in his production. I think Aldon still would have been a very good player if it weren't for his troubles but I attribute the short period of his greatness to him having Cowboy right next to him.

The only person that stopped Aldon was Aldon, his success had a little to do with the system and a lot to do with his freakish athletic ability. He would destroy guys with his first step, J. Smith & Aldon were a great duo but I wouldn't give anyone else Aldon's credit as the team looked different as soon as he showed up!

Aldon got a lot of his sacks on their stunt duo in which Cowboy would rush upfield occupying the tackle allowing Aldon to use his speed to come underneath and beat the guard. His production definitely dropped off when Cowboy was out with his injury (torn pec or whatever it was).

Originally posted by theduke85:

Wow, what a surprise, another analogy lost on you.

How is hereditary of tooth disease (which is true) apply to what we're talking about? Just because that or heart disease (which I stated) can be hereditary doesn't mean if my dad tore his ACL back in the 70s I'm gonna have a higher % of it happening to me.

I understand the gene thing you brought up in that article...why not find out if he has it? If he doesn't have it let's move on. Sports players get hurt, especially football players.

Analogy not lost...just not a relative example imo.

Originally posted by Kolohe:
Yah I think trying a apply those articles to football players in general or athletes in general is a huge reach. Then again, if there was a test done on every proffesional athlete this article may hold water. But until then I wouldn't put much stock into it.

Dude, the article is referencing a study called "The dawning age of genetic testing for sports injuries" from the National Institutes of Health. The entire study was focused on athletes.

Do you think cancer research is irrelevant because we don't conduct tests on every single person in existence?

I have no idea what point you're trying to make.

Originally posted by NCommand:

The nice thing about having another ER to pair with Ford, who's also excellent against the run, is that Saleh can also switch it up and play him inside in race car packages too and run T-E stunts with him. He can essentially play LEO, BE and 3T (nickel).

With Williams, you're limited inside.

^^^ The bottom line, here....is , well , the bottom line. One man , one position, and add to that we have already at interior DT, Day, DJJones, Julian, Solomon, Buck, maybe Street, et al. Adding another interior when you could get an ER like Bosa there...just gives us one more interior DT that we have too many of already.

Now AZ...they have an ER....but nobody inside. As a potential top draft pick, here, Q W. Makes a lot of sense. And if they happen to trade down and pillage and plunder GRuden, they could very well get Q anyway, plus another 1st, and possibly a pair of seconds...making this trade down a veritable 6 pak and stll get the guy they really need. AZ is in prime position for draft. Or...they get the QB kingsbury has to have, Murray. Unless he has already decided on Rosen.

Either way we get... Bosa.

Originally posted by theduke85:

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Yah I think trying a apply those articles to football players in general or athletes in general is a huge reach. Then again, if there was a test done on every proffesional athlete this article may hold water. But until then I wouldn't put much stock into it.

Dude, the article is referencing a study called "The dawning age of genetic testing for sports injuries" from the National Institutes of Health. The entire study was focused on athletes.

Do you think cancer research is irrelevant because we don't conduct tests on every single person in existence?

I have no idea what point you're trying to make.

Right!!! The study was done on athletes but isn't really solid evidence because no athlete is tested before they turn Pro or its not relevant at the Combine. Don't you think the NFL would put more stock into it?

Originally posted by NYniner85:
How is hereditary of tooth disease (which is true) apply to what we're talking about? Just because that or heart disease (which I stated) can be hereditary doesn't mean if my dad tore his ACL back in the 70s I'm gonna have a higher % of it happening to me.

Analogy not lost...just a poor example imo.

I'm sorry abstract thinking is so complicated for you. Here, let me spell out in with crayons and a picture:

Studies suggest some people are more likely to get cavities people their enamel is weaker (genetically).
Studies suggest some people are more likely to break bones because their bone-mineral density is lower (genetically).

Do you understand now? Bones and teeth are not the same thing, but by use of an "analogy" I pointed out similarities.

Having favorable / unfavorable genes doesn't guarantee a player will or will not get injured. A player with favorable genes can still get injured. A player with unfavorable genes can still stay healthy. No s**t. It's all about statistical probability though.

You're right, just because Bosa's father and brother have had questionable health histories isn't a guarantee of anything. However, it arguably suggests that they might be genetically predisposed to injury. Their injury history isn't irrelevant, it's just inconclusive. I'd trust the offspring of LeBron James to stay healthy more than I would the offspring of Greg Oden. I hope you would too.

Originally posted by Kolohe:
Right!!! The study was done on athletes but isn't really solid evidence because no athlete is tested before they turn Pro or its not relevant at the Combine. Don't you think the NFL would put more stock into it?

Well, a couple problems:

1. the research is new and innovative. We don't go from the research phase to have something ready for commercial consumption overnight.

2. Even if the ability to conduct athlete-centric DNA testing was commercially-available, it would be a huge ethical issue. Do you seriously think the NFLPA would commit to signing a CBA agreement in which they permitted to this type of testing? Imagine if your employer said, "hey, I want to perform a DNA test on you to test if you're susceptible to substance abuse addiction", do you think you'd consent to that? To me that's similar to an NFL team trying to screen a player for injury probability. I imagine the NFLPA would have a huge, huge problem with this.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
my dad tore his ACL back in the 70s I'm gonna have a higher % of it happening to me.

South African researchers found that specific variations of a collagen gene named COL1A1 were under-represented in a group of recreational athletes who had suffered traumatic ACL injuries. Those who had torn their ACL were four times as likely as the uninjured study subjects to have a blood relative who had suffered the same injury, suggesting that genetics are at least partially responsible for the strength of the ligament.

We don't know if Bosa's family line has this collgaen gene or something similar. Again, it's possible that his dad's injury to his ACL was related to a genetic predisposition, and so it's possible that Nick shares that trait as well. Again, it's inconclusive. But, all things equal, you'd rather have a prospect with iron men in his family instead of ones with checkered injury histories. Maybe all of his dad's/brother's injuries were complete flukes. That's possible too. But to dismiss them as irrelevant is silly.

Originally posted by theduke85:

I'm sorry abstract thinking is so complicated for you. Here, let me spell out in with crayons and a picture:

Studies suggest some people are more likely to get cavities people their enamel is weaker (genetically).
Studies suggest some people are more likely to break bones because their bone-mineral density is lower (genetically).

Do you understand now? Bones and teeth are not the same thing, but by use of an "analogy" I pointed out similarities.

Having favorable / unfavorable genes doesn't guarantee a player will or will not get injured. A player with favorable genes can still get injured. A player with unfavorable genes can still stay healthy. No s**t. It's all about statistical probability though.

You're right, just because Bosa's father and brother have had questionable health histories isn't a guarantee of anything. However, it arguably suggests that they might be genetically predisposed to injury. Their injury history isn't irrelevant, it's just inconclusive. I'd trust the offspring of LeBron James to stay healthy more than I would the offspring of Greg Oden. I hope you would too.

Dude I get the analogy, I brought up heart disease you don't have to be a d******d about it. One certain hereditary trait on something doesn't mean it's the same for everything though. I have amazing teeth like my mother, my brother has s**tty teeth like my father.

Ive also brought up other examples of sport families that had members play long careers while others not so much.

Again it's football, players get hurt end of the day.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:

Originally posted by NCommand:
The nice thing about having another ER to pair with Ford, who's also excellent against the run, is that Saleh can also switch it up and play him inside in race car packages too and run T-E stunts with him. He can essentially play LEO, BE and 3T (nickel).

With Williams, you're limited inside.

^^^ The bottom line, here....is , well , the bottom line. One man , one position, and add to that we have already at interior DT, Day, DJJones, Julian, Solomon, Buck, maybe Street, et al. Adding another interior when you could get an ER like Bosa there...just gives us one more interior DT that we have too many of already.

Now AZ...they have an ER....but nobody inside. As a potential top draft pick, here, Q W. Makes a lot of sense. And if they happen to trade down and pillage and plunder GRuden, they could very well get Q anyway, plus a pair of other 1sts, and possibly a pair of seconds...making this trade down a veritable 6 pak and stll get the guy they really need. AZ is in prime position for draft. Or...they get the QB kingsbury has to have, Murray. Unless he has already decided on Rosen.

Either way we get... Bosa.

I like those Nascar race packages. They sound fast and furious!

Bosa is much more versatile vs the more one dimensional players that are ranked lower. I remember Dean moving from left to right, or standing in a two point stance or getting into a 3 point stance. Bosa has the physical tools to do it all. If we get Bosa and a good DB, this defense (on paper) has the talent to stifle all but the most potent passing attacks. With Jimmy and Kyle, if they go one touchdown ahead, might as well go 4-1-6 defense and just rotate Dee Ford and Bosa or play them at the same time. I'd love to get a big John Lynch thumper with a second or third round pick to compliment the DB's back there. If you give Bosa and Buckner the time they need to get to the QB, they should be getting to the QB a lot this year.

Originally posted by theduke85:

South African researchers found that specific variations of a collagen gene named COL1A1 were under-represented in a group of recreational athletes who had suffered traumatic ACL injuries. Those who had torn their ACL were four times as likely as the uninjured study subjects to have a blood relative who had suffered the same injury, suggesting that genetics are at least partially responsible for the strength of the ligament.

We don't know if Bosa's family line has this collgaen gene or something similar. Again, it's possible that his dad's injury to his ACL was related to a genetic predisposition, and so it's possible that Nick shares that trait as well. Again, it's inconclusive. But, all things equal, you'd rather have a prospect with iron men in his family instead of ones with checkered injury histories. Maybe all of his dad's/brother's injuries were complete flukes. That's possible too. But to dismiss them as irrelevant is silly.

Yup he might have some gene that turns him into Mr. Glass, I won't deny that anything is possible.

His father could have torn his ACL because of that or because he took a helmet to his knee cap as well.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Dude I get the analogy, I brought up heart disease you don't have to be a d******d about it. One certain hereditary trait on something doesn't mean it's the same for everything though. I have amazing teeth like my mother, my brother has s**tty teeth like my father.

Don't be a d******d? You mean, like, replying "now we're talking about teeth?" and putting an eye roll emoji? Don't play the victim. Your previous reply was totally unnecessary and obtuse.