Nick Bosa, EDGE, Ohio St(The Politics Free Thread)

Originally posted by theduke85:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
my dad tore his ACL back in the 70s I'm gonna have a higher % of it happening to me.

South African researchers found that specific variations of a collagen gene named COL1A1 were under-represented in a group of recreational athletes who had suffered traumatic ACL injuries. Those who had torn their ACL were four times as likely as the uninjured study subjects to have a blood relative who had suffered the same injury, suggesting that genetics are at least partially responsible for the strength of the ligament.

We don't know if Bosa's family line has this collgaen gene or something similar. Again, it's possible that his dad's injury to his ACL was related to a genetic predisposition, and so it's possible that Nick shares that trait as well. Again, it's inconclusive. But, all things equal, you'd rather have a prospect with iron men in his family instead of ones with checkered injury histories. Maybe all of his dad's/brother's injuries were complete flukes. That's possible too. But to dismiss them as irrelevant is silly.

Until the science is definitive, I wouldn't rely on it too much. I would factor that maybe less than 5% of importance vs him actually being diagnosed with some bone deficiency/tendon disease and there is actual MD's that can be cited regarding their diagnosis. To a certain extent, you can overcome gene expression with other remedies like diet exercise, and supplementation. Just because you have a gene doesn't' mean it will be expressed, and like you said, even getting the medical records or even testing is going to be hard - assuming there is even a definitive test on those kinds of things. Also a guy pass rushing vs run defending, I would think would be less injured. I mean if Jimmy can keep putting points on the board, and Bosa is playing pass rush and defending said lead, he'll be going forward and the O LInemen are going backwards. I would think, mechanically, the risk of injury is less.

I went back to page 1 of this thread, just to remember what better days were like in here. Back when viewed Bosa as what he is, a great talent. Also back when we believed we had no shot. Amazing how things change in a year. I can't believe that after having virtually one good edge rusher from 2004 to present, we will probably have two in three weeks times. Two legit starting edge guys that are good enough to start on almost any team in the NFL. A quality back-up (that I hope we extend) in Ronald Blair. Our situation is so good right now, it can't be blown. Knock on wood.

Originally posted by Giedi:
Until the science is definitive, I wouldn't rely on it too much. I would factor that maybe less than 5% of importance vs him actually being diagnosed with some bone deficiency/tendon disease and there is actual MD's that can be cited regarding their diagnosis. To a certain extent, you can overcome gene expression with other remedies like diet exercise, and supplementation. Just because you have a gene doesn't' mean it will be expressed, and like you said, even getting the medical records or even testing is going to be hard - assuming there is even a definitive test on those kinds of things. Also a guy pass rushing vs run defending, I would think would be less injured. I mean if Jimmy can keep putting points on the board, and Bosa is playing pass rush and defending said lead, he'll be going forward and the O LInemen are going backwards. I would think, mechanically, the risk of injury is less.

Agree with a lot of your points here. And for what it's worth, Bosa is the guy for me at #2, assuming he's there. I just think to dismiss the possibility of genetics outright (like some are doing/implying) is wrong. I don't think his family injury history is irrelevant. How relevant it is, I don't know, but it's a factor, among many other things. If people are concerned about his durability, I don't think those questions are unfounded. But again, Bosa is definitely the guy for me.

Originally posted by theduke85:

Don't be a d******d? You mean, like, replying "now we're talking about teeth?" and putting an eye roll emoji? Don't play the victim. Your previous reply was totally unnecessary and obtuse.

I think these topics and what we're seriously talking about have gotten ridiculous. If our doctors are good with him so am I.

Hence the eye roll

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:

I went back to page 1 of this thread, just to remember what better days were like in here. Back when viewed Bosa as what he is, a great talent. Also back when we believed we had no shot. Amazing how things change in a year. I can't believe that after having virtually one good edge rusher from 2004 to present, we will probably have two in three weeks times. Two legit starting edge guys that are good enough to start on almost any team in the NFL. A quality back-up (that I hope we extend) in Ronald Blair. Our situation is so good right now, it can't be blown. Knock on wood.

Agreed!

I bet if we had a realistic chance at Myles a couple yrs ago there would be people talking about injury/lack of production vs top competition....people would probably say because he likes dinosaurs & poetry he wouldn't be hardcore enough to be a pass rusher or some s**t

Originally posted by theduke85:

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Right!!! The study was done on athletes but isn't really solid evidence because no athlete is tested before they turn Pro or its not relevant at the Combine. Don't you think the NFL would put more stock into it?

Well, a couple problems:

1. the research is new and innovative. We don't go from the research phase to have something ready for commercial consumption overnight.

2. Even if the ability to conduct athlete-centric DNA testing was commercially-available, it would be a huge ethical issue. Do you seriously think the NFLPA would commit to signing a CBA agreement in which they permitted to this type of testing? Imagine if your employer said, "hey, I want to perform a DNA test on you to test if you're susceptible to substance abuse addiction", do you think you'd consent to that? To me that's similar to an NFL team trying to screen a player for injury probability. I imagine the NFLPA would have a huge, huge problem with this.

Ok so according to your post nothing is definitive? But you're ready to apply it to all athletes, a bit contradicting if you ask me.

Originally posted by glorydayz:

Originally posted by Wolf_Packer_53:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by Rascal:
Pretty much my assessment on the guy too, high floor low ceiling guy. Like I have always said, this guy ain't no Von Miller. For what is worth, he won't bust out like Solomon Thomas, he will be able to contribute to some degree, but he is no dominant game changer if that is what you are after. I have nothing against the guy, he seems like a pretty chilled dude.

I think one of the reasons Haley was so good was he always had a good DT by his side. In Dallas, he had Russell Maryland. With the 49ers he had Subblefield, Holt and Michael Carter. I think you have to evaluate what team Bosa will play in to really get the feel of how he might do from a high ceiling standpoint. Look at Myles Garrett he was ordinary in his first year and elite his second year and I think one of the reasons is the development of the DT next to him in Larry Ogunjobi. With Buckner already at an elite level - I think Bosa's ceiling can be as high as any of our Yellow Jacket guys of days past. Give Bosa some good man coverage DB's to give him time to get to the QB, pay Buckner $100 million, and Bosa's ceiling is way up there, in my opinion.

This. Look no further then Aldon Smith. He was a MONSTER when paired with the Cowboy. When Cowboy went down coupled with Aldon's issues there was a major drop off in his production. I think Aldon still would have been a very good player if it weren't for his troubles but I attribute the short period of his greatness to him having Cowboy right next to him.

The only person that stopped Aldon was Aldon, his success had a little to do with the system and a lot to do with his freakish athletic ability. He would destroy guys with his first step, J. Smith & Aldon were a great duo but I wouldn't give anyone else Aldon's credit as the team looked different as soon as he showed up!

I agree with you there. Smith helped Aldon, but I think it's overstated how much Cowboy helped Aldon. Aldon Smith was off to an unprecedented start to his career in terms of sack numbers. If it were simply about Justin Smith "holding/occupying blockers", how come no one in the previous 3 season before Smith came was able to even put up average production?

Originally posted by Wolf_Packer_53:

Originally posted by glorydayz:

Originally posted by Wolf_Packer_53:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by Rascal:

Pretty much my assessment on the guy too, high floor low ceiling guy. Like I have always said, this guy ain't no Von Miller. For what is worth, he won't bust out like Solomon Thomas, he will be able to contribute to some degree, but he is no dominant game changer if that is what you are after. I have nothing against the guy, he seems like a pretty chilled dude.

I think one of the reasons Haley was so good was he always had a good DT by his side. In Dallas, he had Russell Maryland. With the 49ers he had Subblefield, Holt and Michael Carter. I think you have to evaluate what team Bosa will play in to really get the feel of how he might do from a high ceiling standpoint. Look at Myles Garrett he was ordinary in his first year and elite his second year and I think one of the reasons is the development of the DT next to him in Larry Ogunjobi. With Buckner already at an elite level - I think Bosa's ceiling can be as high as any of our Yellow Jacket guys of days past. Give Bosa some good man coverage DB's to give him time to get to the QB, pay Buckner $100 million, and Bosa's ceiling is way up there, in my opinion.

This. Look no further then Aldon Smith. He was a MONSTER when paired with the Cowboy. When Cowboy went down coupled with Aldon's issues there was a major drop off in his production. I think Aldon still would have been a very good player if it weren't for his troubles but I attribute the short period of his greatness to him having Cowboy right next to him.

The only person that stopped Aldon was Aldon, his success had a little to do with the system and a lot to do with his freakish athletic ability. He would destroy guys with his first step, J. Smith & Aldon were a great duo but I wouldn't give anyone else Aldon's credit as the team looked different as soon as he showed up!

Aldon got a lot of his sacks on their stunt duo in which Cowboy would rush upfield occupying the tackle allowing Aldon to use his speed to come underneath and beat the guard. His production definitely dropped off when Cowboy was out with his injury (torn pec or whatever it was).

Incorrect. Aldon's play dropped off when he himself got an injury. They were almost injured at the same time. That has been debunked plenty of times.

Did Justin Smith help him? Absolutely. But Aldon was so gifted he didn't need someone to help him as he was able to consistently beat tackles by himself.

Originally posted by theduke85:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Dude I get the analogy, I brought up heart disease you don't have to be a d******d about it. One certain hereditary trait on something doesn't mean it's the same for everything though. I have amazing teeth like my mother, my brother has s**tty teeth like my father.

Don't be a d******d? You mean, like, replying "now we're talking about teeth?" and putting an eye roll emoji? Don't play the victim. Your previous reply was totally unnecessary and obtuse.

C'mon, guys, the POST, not the poster. Y'all know that.

well done duke keep delivering the facts the open minded and unbiased are listening

You guys are gonna SOOOO regret drafting bosa. Please pin this comment to the top of the thread if he gets drafted.

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:
I agree with you there. Smith helped Aldon, but I think it's overstated how much Cowboy helped Aldon. Aldon Smith was off to an unprecedented start to his career in terms of sack numbers. If it were simply about Justin Smith "holding/occupying blockers", how come no one in the previous 3 season before Smith came was able to even put up average production?

Bad coaching.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:

Originally posted by theduke85:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Dude I get the analogy, I brought up heart disease you don't have to be a d******d about it. One certain hereditary trait on something doesn't mean it's the same for everything though. I have amazing teeth like my mother, my brother has s**tty teeth like my father.

Don't be a d******d? You mean, like, replying "now we're talking about teeth?" and putting an eye roll emoji? Don't play the victim. Your previous reply was totally unnecessary and obtuse.

C'mon, guys, the POST, not the poster. Y'all know that.

It's funny both have '85 in their call signs, you'd think they'd get along better.

Originally posted by pdizo916:

You guys are gonna SOOOO regret drafting bosa. Please pin this comment to the top of the thread if he gets drafted.

Originally posted by Waterbear:
Incorrect. Aldon's play dropped off when he himself got an injury. They were almost injured at the same time. That has been debunked plenty of times.

Did Justin Smith help him? Absolutely. But Aldon was so gifted he didn't need someone to help him as he was able to consistently beat tackles by himself.

The key is to consistently beat one on one. Again, if you have a DT that commands a double team, the edge rusher is - by definition - one on one with the O Lineman (OT,Guard,center) whether its a straight rush contain, or a dog/stunt. With Buckner getting a double, that leaves generally three other O Linemen one on one with the other 3 rush guys. It's that combo, the DT and the Edge rusher that really wreaks havoc on pass protection calls because if Bosa decides to move to the other side of the LOS, it's tough to call an audible to slide protections to his side at the last 5 seconds - specially with the QB scanning the DB's coverage. Conversely, Bosa can be doubled, and Buckner breaks free. If they have Cowboy come in and teach them to hold the OLinemen without getting caught - those are basically freebie sacks for the guy getting a one on one. It creates all kinds of problems for the offense if the duo is coming from the blind side of the QB. Turnovers anyone?