Solomon Thomas--Stanford

Originally posted by GhostOfBaalke:

Originally posted by Ninerfan84:
LEO is comparable to a 3-4 OLB not DE. Nickel is a traditional 4 man front so I'm not sure what your point is?

A Leo is a hybrid of DE and LB. it's in the name! Lmao

Get a clue bro. Its a hybrid between a 4-3 DE and OLB which is comparable to a 3-4 OLB.

Originally posted by Ninerfan84:
Get a clue bro. Its a hybrid between a 4-3 DE and OLB which is comparable to a 3-4 OLB.

You guys are pretty much saying the same thing...

Originally posted by Ninerfan84:

Originally posted by GhostOfBaalke:

Originally posted by Ninerfan84:

LEO is comparable to a 3-4 OLB not DE. Nickel is a traditional 4 man front so I'm not sure what your point is?

A Leo is a hybrid of DE and LB. it's in the name! Lmao

Get a clue bro. Its a hybrid between a 4-3 DE and OLB which is comparable to a 3-4 OLB.

read our convo from the beginning.

Originally posted by genus49:

You guys are pretty much saying the same thing...

Yea. Goin in circles. From the beginning I said a 4-3 under is a 4-3 with 3-4 personnel.

So the Leo is a 3-4 OLB which is a LB/DE hybrid.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Brooks & Lynch aren't true LEO's in this scheme though and neither is Thomas; Aldon, yes. We don't have any LEO's right now. Honestly, we wouldn't even need to move Thomas at the 3T at all. Just put on 15-20 pounds over the next couple years and master the 3T. Spell him here and there with Armstead, Blair and Mitchell. If you want to toggle him, he'd toggle between LDE/5T & RDT/3T best. But let these guys play their natural positions. And like in your mock, draft Tyus Bowser to be your LEO.

Why isn't lynch a true LEO? If he loses like 5 lbs he's the same size as smith and has the same length and speed.

Everyone has their opinion on where Solomon can and can't play lol...he's a LDE, he's a 3 tech, he's a edge rusher...truth is he's a f**king good football player period.

Everyone keeps trying to fit every player to a Seattle player like that the optimal comparison...why can't we fit our own players to fit our scheme??

Originally posted by GhostOfBaalke:

Originally posted by genus49:
You guys are pretty much saying the same thing...

Yea. Goin in circles. From the beginning I said a 4-3 under is a 4-3 with 3-4 personnel.

So the Leo is a 3-4 OLB which is a LB/DE hybrid.

My point to the poster I replied to was that a DE in our previous 3-4 is different than a DE in our new scheme. You chimed in about the LEO position which has nothing to do with a 3-4 DE. And I know what the LEO position is.

Originally posted by Ninerfan84:

My point to the poster I replied to was that a DE in our previous 3-4 is different than a DE in our new scheme. You chimed in about the LEO position which has nothing to do with a 3-4 DE. And I know what the LEO position is.

Who were our DEs last year?

if he isnt the pick

we riot

Originally posted by ads_2006:

if he isnt the pick

we riot

Originally posted by genus49:
I just don't understand why people automatically assume he can't be a legit edge rusher? It's like his weight is the only thing people see.

I see a kid who goes the extra mile to get better, someone who has the athletic ability and desire to be the best. Why can't he be a legit edge rusher? I think Stanford used him the way they did because they felt that gave them a better competitive edge(no pun intended)

I think he has success wherever he plays in the NFL. Similar in a sense to Jimmie Ward. I think his best fit will be at FS but he did a pretty good job at nickel corner. That's what I think about Thomas in certain spots. He'll be pretty good though it may not be his ultimate spot....but he'll make plays wherever and inspire other guys to give their all while playing next to him.

Just like there is a big difference between the SAM (Brooks) and WILL (Aldon). SAM is your strong side OLB who 1) plays the run 1st and 2) looks to drop back and 3) OK, if neither 1 or 2 is in play, rush the passer. Guys like Brooks and Lynch were ideal in that...excellent run defenders who can drop back and even add 6 sacks a year. On the other side, is the WILL. The WILL is your premier edge rusher who basically has one job. GET TO THE EFFING QB BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY!

If you read that post I made, it listed it perfectly for you. And again, this isn't a "Seattle thing" it's a 4-3_Under thing and how Seifert built this defense. It's a "San Francisco thing."

The LEO's main job is to control the C gap while rushing the passer like a wild banshee and the SAM plays contain against the TE, runs in pass coverage with him, or rushes the passer in some situations.

Whether it's the 3-4 or 4-3, the roles are exactly the same. This is why Lynch noted we have a lot of 3-4 guys who can play 4-3. It's a hybrid defense designed to have both.

So again, players like Brooks, Lynch and Harold are best suited for the SAM, Buckner for the LDE/5T and players like Thomas, ideal for the 3T.

Also from the article:

The LEO can be a little bit smaller than a normal DE and Pete Carroll tends to like a more athletic and versatile body type for his Elephant position; a guy that can speed rush the QB but also react quick enough to control his gap.

So look for your hyper-athletic smaller edge rushers who have spent their entire careers perfecting their edge rushing. They've got insane get-off, can beat you outside, inside, have an array of set-up moves, spin moves, swim moves, violent hands, incredible body balance, have terrific closing speed, usually have long-arms, just have a natural "feel" for the rush, instincts you can't teach, etc.

The guy that is effing this all up is Bennett. Bennett is their LDE/5T (Buckner). That position was NOT designed to have a guy getting 13 sacks from there. B/c he's a true edge rusher, he can toggle between the 5T and LEO. I could never picture Buckner toggling between the 5T and LEO.

So right now, Thomas is best for the RDT/3T spot. In fact, he's freaking ideal there. He's got Bryant Young potential there. But Seifert wouldn't ask Bryant Young to play in place of Charles Haley and push him to the bench. They are just two very different positions with very different skill sets and both are absolutely needed to make this defense optimal.

Originally posted by Aj_hwd954:

It's like we're the 2000's Lions, but instead of drafting WRs every year, we take DLinemen. Smh

Really we're the opposite of the Lions, building up the defensive interior.

No reason to expect the same results as the Lions and if this regime fails, it won't have to do with taking Solomon Thomas.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Brooks & Lynch aren't true LEO's in this scheme though and neither is Thomas; Aldon, yes. We don't have any LEO's right now. Honestly, we wouldn't even need to move Thomas at the 3T at all. Just put on 15-20 pounds over the next couple years and master the 3T. Spell him here and there with Armstead, Blair and Mitchell. If you want to toggle him, he'd toggle between LDE/5T & RDT/3T best. But let these guys play their natural positions. And like in your mock, draft Tyus Bowser to be your LEO.

Why isn't lynch a true LEO? If he loses like 5 lbs he's the same size as smith and has the same length and speed.

Everyone has their opinion on where Solomon can and can't play lol...he's a LDE, he's a 3 tech, he's a edge rusher...truth is he's a f**king good football player period.

Everyone keeps trying to fit every player to a Seattle player like that the optimal comparison...why can't we fit our own players to fit our scheme??

Interesting - didn't realize Justin Smith had such short arms. He actually had 32.5" arms (shorter than Thomas) which was one of the knocks on him in the 2001 draft, but he turned out just fine. I wouldn't say Justin Smith is an ideal LEO though - he was a great strong-side DE when he came out. If Thomas becomes Justin Smith, he'd be a fantastic pick.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogR9TKyNmWg

Originally posted by genus49:
No for the multiple reasons that have already been covered.

1. DL is a much more impactful position in the league
2. Calvin Johnson was one of the best picks for that franchise and it was a 4th WR in the top 10 in 5 years, as I mentioned before if the Lions listened to people they would've passed up on CJ for Laron Landry
3. Shanahan & Lynch have 0 attachment to Baalke guys. Armstead hasn't shown enough to think he cannot be replaced

The difference is all 3 of Detroit's other wr's were not in their long term plans. Roy Williams was a nut, M Williams and Rogers sucked. They were dumb to draft the other 3 but at least Calvin was right. Now if they drafted Fitzgerald I would advise passing on Calvin you could of got Patrick Willis.

If the Niners didnt have Armstead would anyone really try to argue against taking Thomas with the 2nd pick? I doubt it. He will be a force as an interior DT playing the 3T in our scheme. Personally, I wouldnt pass on a guy like this for player like Armstead who has so many question marks.

Still believe a trade down to #6 would be perfect but I truly dont think that will happen. SO.... Solomon Thomas it is.

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by genus49:
No for the multiple reasons that have already been covered.

1. DL is a much more impactful position in the league
2. Calvin Johnson was one of the best picks for that franchise and it was a 4th WR in the top 10 in 5 years, as I mentioned before if the Lions listened to people they would've passed up on CJ for Laron Landry
3. Shanahan & Lynch have 0 attachment to Baalke guys. Armstead hasn't shown enough to think he cannot be replaced

The difference is all 3 of Detroit's other wr's were not in their long term plans. Roy Williams was a nut, M Williams and Rogers sucked. They were dumb to draft the other 3 but at least Calvin was right. Now if they drafted Fitzgerald I would advise passing on Calvin you could of got Patrick Willis.

Championship football is building a team from the trenches out.