Solomon Thomas--Stanford

Originally posted by jcs:
Championship football is building a team from the trenches out.

Well 5 out of the last 8 teams (2 wins) that made the Super Bowl had a top 4 o. It can be done in a lot of ways.

Originally posted by GhostOfBaalke:

Originally posted by Ninerfan84:
My point to the poster I replied to was that a DE in our previous 3-4 is different than a DE in our new scheme. You chimed in about the LEO position which has nothing to do with a 3-4 DE. And I know what the LEO position is.

Who were our DEs last year?

I don't know why I'm replying but Buckner, Dial, Armstead until he went down, Blair, TJE and Chris Jones by season's end. The LDE position remains the same as the prior scheme as mentioned.

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
If the Niners didnt have Armstead would anyone really try to argue against taking Thomas with the 2nd pick? I doubt it. He will be a force as an interior DT playing the 3T in our scheme. Personally, I wouldnt pass on a guy like this for player like Armstead who has so many question marks.

Still believe a trade down to #6 would be perfect but I truly dont think that will happen. SO.... Solomon Thomas it is.

Armstead, Blair and Mitchell. Meaning, since we're rebuilding, we have far greater holes at WR, QB, ER, LB, CB, S, etc. Why not give your first round pick every chance to see if he can achieve his potential? It's not like we're in a rush here. If all 3 end up sucking, buy a DT next year in FA or draft one.

That's the argument. I think we all agree he's a great choice and a perfect fit (to me anyways) at the 3T but when building a team, its not always about "BPA." Even Lynch noted that...sometimes you need to go with the BPA at the positions of need.

That's why there are POV from all over on this pick...a Mike Williams would complete the WR group and allow Shanahan to install the full offense quicker and make everyone around him better. Hooker would complete our secondary. Foster would complete our LB's. Yadda yadda yadda.

So it's not always that simple. This is why some are calling the Thomas pick a "luxury pick" even though I disagree with that tag.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
If the Niners didnt have Armstead would anyone really try to argue against taking Thomas with the 2nd pick? I doubt it. He will be a force as an interior DT playing the 3T in our scheme. Personally, I wouldnt pass on a guy like this for player like Armstead who has so many question marks.

Still believe a trade down to #6 would be perfect but I truly dont think that will happen. SO.... Solomon Thomas it is.

Armstead, Blair and Mitchell. Meaning, since we're rebuilding, we have far greater holes at WR, QB, ER, LB, CB, S, etc. Why not give your first round pick every chance to see if he can achieve his potential? It's not like we're in a rush here. If all 3 end up sucking, buy a DT next year in FA or draft one.

That's the argument. I think we all agree he's a great choice and a perfect fit (to me anyways) at the 3T but when building a team, its not always about "BPA." Even Lynch noted that...sometimes you need to go with the BPA at the positions of need.

That's why there are POV from all over on this pick...a Mike Williams would complete the WR group and allow Shanahan to install the full offense quicker and make everyone around him better. Hooker would complete our secondary. Foster would complete our LB's. Yadda yadda yadda.

So it's not always that simple. This is why some are calling the Thomas pick a "luxury pick" even though I disagree with that tag.

Blair is a rotational player at this point and Mitchell along with AA make up only 2 of the 5 on the line defenders that we need. Obviously Buckner is the 3rd but after that we need to upgrade both of the other 2 positions. People are arguing about Thomas because they don't know where he will line up, period. I guarantee we'll have our 5 best players on the field at the same time and that would include AA and Thomas if he is drafted.

Originally posted by Ninerfan84:
Blair is a rotational player at this point and Mitchell along with AA make up only 2 of the 5 on the line defenders that we need. Obviously Buckner is the 3rd but after that we need to upgrade both of the other 2 positions. People are arguing about Thomas because they don't know where he will line up, period. I guarantee we'll have our 5 best players on the field at the same time and that would include AA and Thomas if he is drafted.

That's 3 players who can all play the 3T. How well? We can't say that yet but a tweener like Blair in our 3-4, is now a better fit for the 4-3 as a RDT/3T. In fact, I'm kind of excited to see him there. He may actually end up being a better fit than AA.

The point is, in year 1, we could probably, at worst, "get by" with those 3 manning the 3T. Best case scenario is Armstead and Blair ball out there and Mitchell is an excellent rotational interior pass rusher and pretty effective run stopper. That's something our coaches will need to assess. If they believe so, they may go another BPA-need pick. If they aren't sure yet, they may take Thomas and, like you said, cross that bridge when we get there (this defense will rotate heavily anyhow).

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Ninerfan84:
Blair is a rotational player at this point and Mitchell along with AA make up only 2 of the 5 on the line defenders that we need. Obviously Buckner is the 3rd but after that we need to upgrade both of the other 2 positions. People are arguing about Thomas because they don't know where he will line up, period. I guarantee we'll have our 5 best players on the field at the same time and that would include AA and Thomas if he is drafted.

That's 3 players who can all play the 3T. How well? We can't say that yet but a tweener like Blair in our 3-4, is now a better fit for the 4-3 as a RDT/3T. In fact, I'm kind of excited to see him there. He may actually end up being a better fit than AA.

The point is, in year 1, we could probably, at worst, "get by" with those 3 manning the 3T. Best case scenario is Armstead and Blair ball out there and Mitchell is an excellent rotational interior pass rusher and pretty effective run stopper. That's something our coaches will need to assess. If they believe so, they may go another BPA-need pick. If they aren't sure yet, they may take Thomas and, like you said, cross that bridge when we get there (this defense will rotate heavily anyhow).

But you are stuck on Thomas playing 3T. So your assumption is not giving you a broader perspective IMO.

Also, Mitchell is not a 3T. He and Dial could "play" the position but ideally our 3T rotation would consist of AA, Buckner and Blair. Thomas would fill either 3T position in nickel or stay outside as a base end. In base I'm putting Thomas outside.

Originally posted by Ninerfan84:
But you are stuck on Thomas playing 3T. So your assumption is not giving you a broader perspective IMO.

Also, Mitchell is not a 3T. He and Dial could "play" the position but ideally our 3T rotation would consist of AA, Buckner and Blair. Thomas would fill either 3T position in nickel or stay outside as a base end. In base I'm putting Thomas outside.

When you look at this particular defense, it's not too hard to project where players would fit best for those roles. I mean, there are still a few things that need to be ironed out as we do have a few players who wouldn't fit or may not fit, etc. The idea of trying to move interior DL to edge rushers was discussed all day long so if you still believe that re: Thomas, that's cool. We'll cross that bridge when we get there.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Ninerfan84:
But you are stuck on Thomas playing 3T. So your assumption is not giving you a broader perspective IMO.

Also, Mitchell is not a 3T. He and Dial could "play" the position but ideally our 3T rotation would consist of AA, Buckner and Blair. Thomas would fill either 3T position in nickel or stay outside as a base end. In base I'm putting Thomas outside.

When you look at this particular defense, it's not too hard to project where players would fit best for those roles. I mean, there are still a few things that need to be ironed out as we do have a few players who wouldn't fit or may not fit, etc. The idea of trying to move interior DL to edge rushers was discussed all day long so if you still believe that re: Thomas, that's cool. We'll cross that bridge when we get there.

I wouldn't classify him as an edge rusher. When I say outside I'm thinking strongside 6 or 7T. People here have discussed him at LEO which is different than what I'm suggesting. We may be crossing it sooner than later .

Originally posted by Ninerfan84:
I wouldn't classify him as an edge rusher. When I say outside I'm thinking strongside 6 or 7T. People here have discussed him at LEO which is different than what I'm suggesting. We may be crossing it sooner than later .

Oh, gotcha!!!

Yes sir...

Originally posted by Ninerfan84:
But you are stuck on Thomas playing 3T. So your assumption is not giving you a broader perspective IMO.

Also, Mitchell is not a 3T. He and Dial could "play" the position but ideally our 3T rotation would consist of AA, Buckner and Blair. Thomas would fill either 3T position in nickel or stay outside as a base end. In base I'm putting Thomas outside.

Buckner really isn't a great fit as a 3 tech so that's why it's a lot more likely Thomas would end up there. The 5 tech in a 4-3 under is pretty much the same as is it in 3-4 d so Buckner is a perfect fit there. Ideally speaking if we were to draft Thomas we'd ask him to get to 285 about what Aaron Donald weighs and you could still move him around some.

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by Ninerfan84:
But you are stuck on Thomas playing 3T. So your assumption is not giving you a broader perspective IMO.

Also, Mitchell is not a 3T. He and Dial could "play" the position but ideally our 3T rotation would consist of AA, Buckner and Blair. Thomas would fill either 3T position in nickel or stay outside as a base end. In base I'm putting Thomas outside.

Buckner really isn't a great fit as a 3 tech so that's why it's a lot more likely Thomas would end up there. The 5 tech in a 4-3 under is pretty much the same as is it in 3-4 d so Buckner is a perfect fit there. Ideally speaking if we were to draft Thomas we'd ask him to get to 285 about what Aaron Donald weighs and you could still move him around some.

I agree about Buckner at 5T but he would be part of the rotation at 3T. If we are speaking hypothetically ideally we would want AA to be a stud at 3T and Thomas a stud on the outside.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Just like there is a big difference between the SAM (Brooks) and WILL (Aldon). SAM is your strong side OLB who 1) plays the run 1st and 2) looks to drop back and 3) OK, if neither 1 or 2 is in play, rush the passer. Guys like Brooks and Lynch were ideal in that...excellent run defenders who can drop back and even add 6 sacks a year. On the other side, is the WILL. The WILL is your premier edge rusher who basically has one job. GET TO THE EFFING QB BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY!

If you read that post I made, it listed it perfectly for you. And again, this isn't a "Seattle thing" it's a 4-3_Under thing and how Seifert built this defense. It's a "San Francisco thing."

The LEO's main job is to control the C gap while rushing the passer like a wild banshee and the SAM plays contain against the TE, runs in pass coverage with him, or rushes the passer in some situations.

Whether it's the 3-4 or 4-3, the roles are exactly the same. This is why Lynch noted we have a lot of 3-4 guys who can play 4-3. It's a hybrid defense designed to have both.

So again, players like Brooks, Lynch and Harold are best suited for the SAM, Buckner for the LDE/5T and players like Thomas, ideal for the 3T.

Also from the article:

The LEO can be a little bit smaller than a normal DE and Pete Carroll tends to like a more athletic and versatile body type for his Elephant position; a guy that can speed rush the QB but also react quick enough to control his gap.

So look for your hyper-athletic smaller edge rushers who have spent their entire careers perfecting their edge rushing. They've got insane get-off, can beat you outside, inside, have an array of set-up moves, spin moves, swim moves, violent hands, incredible body balance, have terrific closing speed, usually have long-arms, just have a natural "feel" for the rush, instincts you can't teach, etc.

The guy that is effing this all up is Bennett. Bennett is their LDE/5T (Buckner). That position was NOT designed to have a guy getting 13 sacks from there. B/c he's a true edge rusher, he can toggle between the 5T and LEO. I could never picture Buckner toggling between the 5T and LEO.

So right now, Thomas is best for the RDT/3T spot. In fact, he's freaking ideal there. He's got Bryant Young potential there. But Seifert wouldn't ask Bryant Young to play in place of Charles Haley and push him to the bench. They are just two very different positions with very different skill sets and both are absolutely needed to make this defense optimal.

Best post yet out of these 95 pages.

If we draft Thomas he plays 3 tech and we still need a NT and a LEO. Plain and simple. And that means we are throwing AA to the curb. That's the issue.

Or, we can draft another stud like Adams who fills a huge need and a LEO in round 2 and see what we have in AA. It's like you guys are forgetting all the positive news from him at camp last year before he hurt his shoulder.

Undersized DT'S come around every year.

There's no way in hell we can draft a d lineman for a 3rd straight year

Originally posted by SteveYoung:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Just like there is a big difference between the SAM (Brooks) and WILL (Aldon). SAM is your strong side OLB who 1) plays the run 1st and 2) looks to drop back and 3) OK, if neither 1 or 2 is in play, rush the passer. Guys like Brooks and Lynch were ideal in that...excellent run defenders who can drop back and even add 6 sacks a year. On the other side, is the WILL. The WILL is your premier edge rusher who basically has one job. GET TO THE EFFING QB BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY!

If you read that post I made, it listed it perfectly for you. And again, this isn't a "Seattle thing" it's a 4-3_Under thing and how Seifert built this defense. It's a "San Francisco thing."

The LEO's main job is to control the C gap while rushing the passer like a wild banshee and the SAM plays contain against the TE, runs in pass coverage with him, or rushes the passer in some situations.

Whether it's the 3-4 or 4-3, the roles are exactly the same. This is why Lynch noted we have a lot of 3-4 guys who can play 4-3. It's a hybrid defense designed to have both.

So again, players like Brooks, Lynch and Harold are best suited for the SAM, Buckner for the LDE/5T and players like Thomas, ideal for the 3T.

Also from the article:

The LEO can be a little bit smaller than a normal DE and Pete Carroll tends to like a more athletic and versatile body type for his Elephant position; a guy that can speed rush the QB but also react quick enough to control his gap.

So look for your hyper-athletic smaller edge rushers who have spent their entire careers perfecting their edge rushing. They've got insane get-off, can beat you outside, inside, have an array of set-up moves, spin moves, swim moves, violent hands, incredible body balance, have terrific closing speed, usually have long-arms, just have a natural "feel" for the rush, instincts you can't teach, etc.

The guy that is effing this all up is Bennett. Bennett is their LDE/5T (Buckner). That position was NOT designed to have a guy getting 13 sacks from there. B/c he's a true edge rusher, he can toggle between the 5T and LEO. I could never picture Buckner toggling between the 5T and LEO.

So right now, Thomas is best for the RDT/3T spot. In fact, he's freaking ideal there. He's got Bryant Young potential there. But Seifert wouldn't ask Bryant Young to play in place of Charles Haley and push him to the bench. They are just two very different positions with very different skill sets and both are absolutely needed to make this defense optimal.

Best post yet out of these 95 pages.

If we draft Thomas he plays 3 tech and we still need a NT and a LEO. Plain and simple. And that means we are throwing AA to the curb. That's the issue.

Or, we can draft another stud like Adams who fills a huge need and a LEO in round 2 and see what we have in AA. It's like you guys are forgetting all the positive news from him at camp last year before he hurt his shoulder.

Undersized DT'S come around every year.

Says the guy who wants to take a SS at #2 and can't seem to figure out that Mitchell was acquired to be our NT.

Originally posted by ninerfan4life:
There's no way in hell we can draft a d lineman for a 3rd straight year

Shanahan and Lynch just got here. They have a clean slate. What Baalke did previously means f**k all, if Thomas is the top guy on their draft board, that is who they will take.