Solomon Thomas--Stanford

Originally posted by 9erguy:

Speaking in hypotheticals. Of course people wouldn't complain if that were to happen. Although I'm sure someone will find a way to complain about something.

Originally posted by MeddlingKids:

Man, that would be so awesome to get a dominant force again like one of those two dudes.

Agreed it all starts up front

The problem I have with drafting Thomas is this. He's already a little big to play the phant before he hits the NFL. Ive not seen one player that has come into the nfl and not get bigger, and usually (not always) slower if even only slightly, than when in college unless there's health issues.

So 2 years from now he's a 34 end or a 43 tackle and we have plenty of both in youg guys drafted the last few years.

Originally posted by WINiner:
The problem I have with drafting Thomas is this. He's already a little big to play the phant before he hits the NFL. Ive not seen one player that has come into the nfl and not get bigger, and usually (not always) slower if even only slightly, than when in college unless there's health issues.

So 2 years from now he's a 34 end or a 43 tackle and we have plenty of both in youg guys drafted the last few years.

I think Melvin Ingram has lost weight. He he came in at 260 but is now listed at 250. Agreed overall though. I don't see him as a Leo at all but you can still make a compelling case for him at 3.

Originally posted by WINiner:

The problem I have with drafting Thomas is this. He's already a little big to play the phant before he hits the NFL. Ive not seen one player that has come into the nfl and not get bigger, and usually (not always) slower if even only slightly, than when in college unless there's health issues.

So 2 years from now he's a 34 end or a 43 tackle and we have plenty of both in youg guys drafted the last few years.

Quality>>>>quantity.



We have no idea if Armstead is going to be anything more than an average player while Thomas with a few more pounds has the potential to be a great undertackle. He's a better prospect than Armstead was and significantly so.


I dont think you can pass on him because Baalke drafted 2/3 of the DL from Oregon. Long term I think the combo of Buckner+Thomas works better in this scheme than Buckner+Armstead, two lumbering 6'7" guys who ideally would play the same position.


If Armstead shows something then you trade him down the road and build your front seven around Thomas and Buckner.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Quality>>>>quantity.



We have no idea if Armstead is going to be anything more than an average player while Thomas with a few more pounds has the potential to be a great undertackle. He's a better prospect than Armstead was and significantly so.


I dont think you can pass on him because Baalke drafted 2/3 of the DL from Oregon. Long term I think the combo of Buckner+Thomas works better in this scheme than Buckner+Armstead, two lumbering 6'7" guys who ideally would play the same position.


If Armstead shows something then you trade him down the road and build your front seven around Thomas and Buckner.

Agreed

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Quality>>>>quantity.



We have no idea if Armstead is going to be anything more than an average player while Thomas with a few more pounds has the potential to be a great undertackle. He's a better prospect than Armstead was and significantly so.


I dont think you can pass on him because Baalke drafted 2/3 of the DL from Oregon. Long term I think the combo of Buckner+Thomas works better in this scheme than Buckner+Armstead, two lumbering 6'7" guys who ideally would play the same position.


If Armstead shows something then you trade him down the road and build your front seven around Thomas and Buckner.

Agreed

Or you can say the 3T is one of the least important position in this defensive scheme and you can plug in no names like the Shanahan's do with RB's and find success.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Or you can say the 3T is one of the least important position in Seattle's defensive scheme which isnt all that relevant to the 49ers.

FTFY.


Under tackle is one of the most important positions, that Seattle chooses to neglect it doesnt mean much. The 49ers dont have Earl Thomas or Richard Sherman to allow them to get away with less interior pressure. They will need to exhaust every available method of generating pass rush.


Seattle also chooses to draft defensive linemen and basketball players to convert them to the OL. I doubt you will see the 49ers do that either.


Bottomline you continue to put far too much emphasis on what Seattle does. Theirs is only but one way to approach the scheme.

Shanahan and Lynch will build the roster based on the guys they have and the guys that are available, not the guys they wish they had and the guys they wish were available.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Quality>>>>quantity.



We have no idea if Armstead is going to be anything more than an average player while Thomas with a few more pounds has the potential to be a great undertackle. He's a better prospect than Armstead was and significantly so.


I dont think you can pass on him because Baalke drafted 2/3 of the DL from Oregon. Long term I think the combo of Buckner+Thomas works better in this scheme than Buckner+Armstead, two lumbering 6'7" guys who ideally would play the same position.


If Armstead shows something then you trade him down the road and build your front seven around Thomas and Buckner.

Agreed

We can make a case for Thomas to trim down further as well to have a better power to weight ratio. If we don't trade down I'm down for Thomas AND someone that can rush at the Leo spot on 3rd downs. I'm eyeing TJ Watt if we go D with our second pick.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Or you can say the 3T is one of the least important position in Seattle's defensive scheme which isnt all that relevant to the 49ers.

FTFY.


Under tackle is one of the most important positions, that Seattle chooses to neglect it doesnt mean much. The 49ers dont have Earl Thomas or Richard Sherman to allow them to get away with less interior pressure. They will need to exhaust every available method of generating pass rush.


Seattle also chooses to draft defensive linemen and basketball players to convert them to the OL. I doubt you will see the 49ers do that either.


Bottomline you continue to put far too much emphasis on what Seattle does. Theirs is only but one way to approach the scheme.

Shanahan and Lynch will build the roster based on the guys they have and the guys that are available, not the guys they wish they had and the guys they wish were available.

I'm just playing a bit. You know I'd be excited about having BY II here.

I'd say in this defensive scheme, order of importance:

Edge rushers (at least 3)
MIKE
FS
NT
CB
LDE/5T
WILL
3T
SS
SAM

Originally posted by NCommand:

Or you can say the 3T is one of the least important position in this defensive scheme and you can plug in no names like the Shanahan's do with RB's and find success.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.uwdawgpound.com/platform/amp/2013/9/13/4727200/the-4-3-under-defining-the-defense

UT (3-tech)

"This is the defense's namesake. He lines up at the 3-tech on the weak-side. The Under Tackle (UT) is an undersized DT who gets by on speed, quickness and technique. Sheer girth is not very important for this position, atypical for an interior line position. A lot of UTs are former DE's who have shifted inside. Now, not all UT's are the small, quick type. It depends on what the defensive coordinator wants for the situation and position.

If the defense is focused on stopping the run, oftentimes the UT will be a larger defender. He could be similar to a 3-4 DE. There is versatility in how this position could be used. The first star UT was Hall of Famer Warren Sapp. Sapp is an anomaly, a player with great size and strength in addition to quickness.

Typically, a DC wants his best interior pass rusher at the UT. Because he will be in a lot of one-on-one situations against a guard, the UT should be able to knife his way into the backfield and fluster the QB in addition to penetrating on run plays.


One of the main ideas of the 4-3 Under is to get defenders in one-on-one situations. Take a look again at the 4-3 Under on the chalkboard. How does a team (from 21 personnel, or even 12) double team anyone other than the NT? While the defense is predicated on getting one-on-one matchups, it is specifically designed to get the UT and the WDE into one-on-one situations.

When running a 4-3 Under, it is very, very, very important that the 3-tech UT is able to beat solo blocks consistently. More than consistently, frequently. Because the defense is so predicated on getting him those looks, it becomes almost necessary that he is able to dominate single blocks.

In case you haven't noticed: the 3-tech under tackle is one of if not the number one most important player on this entire defense. His ability to rush the passer from the interior in addition to beating his blocker in hopes to stopping runs in the backfield is what the defense if predicated on."

Having 8 in the box helps their run d a lot too.

Originally posted by Lobo49er:
Having 8 in the box helps their run d a lot too.

Which is why I think its faulty to use Seattle as a blueprint. They can stack the box as often as they do because Thomas covers so much ground on the back end, he's just an incredible free safety that provides them with a huge advantage every time he is out on the field. Its no coincidence that their pass defense went to s**t once he got injured. At the other safety you have Kam Chancellor who is as big as a linebacker but can stick in coverage with pretty much anyone. Being able to keep an extra man down in the box allows them to get away with having lesser interior players.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by Lobo49er:

Having 8 in the box helps their run d a lot too.

Which is why I think its faulty to use Seattle as a blueprint. They can stack the box as often as they do because Thomas covers so much ground on the back end, he's just an incredible free safety that provides them with a huge advantage every time he is out on the field. Its no coincidence that their pass defense went to s**t once he got injured. At the other safety you have Kam Chancellor who is as big as a linebacker but can stick in coverage with pretty much anyone. Being able to keep an extra man down in the box allows them to get away with having lesser interior players.

Exactly. So get on the Hooker train?

Originally posted by Lobo49er:

Exactly. So get on the Hooker train?

I've been on it for awhile

Originally posted by Lobo49er:
Exactly. So get on the Hooker train?

Only if you think that Hooker is equivalent to Earl Thomas, which I don't, and that doesn't even include the injury concerns.