Mitch "Mr Biscuit" Trubisky-QB-North Carolina

Originally posted by Andra:

https://www.google.com/amp/www.ganggreennation.com/platform/amp/2016/4/4/11358586/how-accurate-are-the-bill-parcells-rules-for-drafting-quarterbacks?client=safari

Trubisky 0-4 on the Parcells requirements

f**k Parcells!

Originally posted by Aj_hwd954:

Originally posted by Andra:

https://www.google.com/amp/www.ganggreennation.com/platform/amp/2016/4/4/11358586/how-accurate-are-the-bill-parcells-rules-for-drafting-quarterbacks?client=safari

Trubisky 0-4 on the Parcells requirements

f**k Parcells!

Well when you put it that way it seems obvious. I don't know why I even considered Parcells opinion.

What QB parcells drafted that were successful? Drafted Henne, traded for Henson, dunno if he drafted Carter/some other country looking QB.

If he drafted Simms that was 50 years ago. Pennington?

Originally posted by Jcool:


That kind of thinking will get him fired.

So, you actually think Mike Williams at #2 is a solid decision for John Lynch?

Originally posted by 49ERFANb4Uwas:

Originally posted by Jcool:


That kind of thinking will get him fired.

So, you actually think Mike Williams at #2 is a solid decision for John Lynch?

He is a top 10 player in the draft. Do you think passing on a player because a GM with a similar background, who failed, and was known for drafting WRs is a good reason not to take someone? Does Lynch seem like the type of guy to do that?

Originally posted by SmokeCrabtrees:

What QB parcells drafted that were successful? Drafted Henne, traded for Henson, dunno if he drafted Carter/some other country looking QB.

If he drafted Simms that was 50 years ago. Pennington?

Good point, I can't argue with that. I would say though that Parcells was a successful coach and his criteria for drafting a QB makes sense though not full Proof

Originally posted by Jcool:

Originally posted by 49ERFANb4Uwas:

Originally posted by Jcool:

That kind of thinking will get him fired.

So, you actually think Mike Williams at #2 is a solid decision for John Lynch?

He is a top 10 player in the draft. Do you think passing on a player because a GM with a similar background, who failed, and was known for drafting WRs is a good reason not to take someone? Does Lynch seem like the type of guy to do that?

I think Davis is the better all around wr, much better route runner.

If they don't go the qb route I'd love any sort of trade down and go after either WR. I could see the bills moving up cause I can't see them getting any of the vet qbs this offseason.

Wow, this person did a brilliant job of showing and explaining EXACTLY what I was referring to on the last page. This is a disconcerting flaw. The first two players that come to mind that have this flaw are Blaine Gabbert and Blake Bortles.

Concerning Mechanics

Mitch Trubisky

Before this gets out of hand, it should be established that Mitch Trubisky is not a bad quarterback prospect. He is a quality prospect who should turn out as a passable starting quarterback in the NFL. That being said, his post-drop footwork is consistently problematic, especially when throwing to his left or when throwing vertically.



Thankfully this throw was early in the game and Trubisky was able to make a handful of throws later on to help boost North Carolina to victory, but this is a painful miss. Trubisky put too much air under this ball.




Trubisky's first fault is progressively leaning back as he looks for a receiver and prepares to throw. By forcing that much weight on his back foot, Trubisky is forcing himself to exert unnecessary effort to bring his body forward, which is one of many ways that a quarterback can disrupt the synchronization of his throwing motion. Rearing back also makes it near impossible for Trubisky to properly use his plant foot. In the clip above, his plant foot is dangling in the air for a second, then is barely planted in the ground when Trubisky goes to throw.

The second error Trubisky makes is not following through with his motion. Trubisky does not follow through his motion and does not get any snap at the end of his rotation, leaving him to loft the ball rather than truly throw it. Trubisky restricted any chance of properly driving on the ball and putting this throw on a line.

This is a recurring issue for Trubisky. That is not to say he does this every time he goes vertically, but it shows up multiple times in each game and it's a tough theme to ignore.




Trubisky struggles to open properly to his left. His footwork looses its form and he fails to generate proper torque in order to cleanly get the ball off.



Again, Trubisky is leaning away from the throw. It looks a little different here than it does when he is looking to throw deep, but the issue remains the same. Once Trubisky completes his initial drop, his front leg begins to drift out wide. Trubisky never gains control of his front leg or counteracts the direction that his body is leaning, so Trubisky's only natural movement when going to throw is to further drift his body away from the throw as he goes to plant.

On this play, and others like it, Trubisky's plant foot hits the ground too tight to his midline because he needed to plant quickly to try to reestablish himself and prevent from leaning too far away from the throw. The sped up plant step ends up cutting Trubisky's rotation short, leaving his release to trail behind the rest of his body for just a tick longer than it should have. As a result, Trubisky's synchronization was disrupted and his release point was shifted from what is a more natural position for Trubisky.

I feel the need to reiterate that Trubisky is not a bad quarterback. Rather, he has repeated issues (like the two examples above) that litter his film catalog. Trubisky very well could break these poor habits, especially considering he is a player with little playing experience, but it would be ill-advised to bank on him doing so.

Here are my original posts in case anyone cares.

Originally posted by Heroism:

#2 is a massive flaw I've also noticed when watching Trubisky more closely. When he throws to his left, he has a habit of stepping completely perpendicular to his target instead of towards it before he even starts his delivery. His upper and lower body are not synchronized. I kept asking myself why something just doesn't look right at times when he throws, and I finally pinpointed that. He basically throws without his lower body in a lot of those throws to his left.

Pay attention to those gifs up above. Look closely at how he is fading away to his left once the ball leaves his hand. That's not good.


This is definitely a glaring flaw in his game he'll have to address.

Originally posted by Heroism:

Fired up the Stanford film, and it took me a minute to find an example:



you can really see it here. gross.



takes that funky side step he constantly does towards the sun bowl/unc logo rather than his target. this leads to that awkwardly tall posture, that wide throwing base and basically removes most of the power from his hips and weight transfer. once the ball leaves his hands, he's almost falling in the direction of that funky side step leg rather than towards his target. it almost makes it look like he's hopping as he throws the ball. he's basically muscling these throws. his body has little synchronicity.



conversely, watson has beautiful mechanics. note the direction of the first step and how well he transfers weight from his back leg to his front leg. Completely different than trubisky. watson throws with excellent posture and body synchronicity. his entire body is under control throughout his throw.

Side note: Watson is so money with the fade throws.

Originally posted by SmokeCrabtrees:
What QB parcells drafted that were successful? Drafted Henne, traded for Henson, dunno if he drafted Carter/some other country looking QB.

If he drafted Simms that was 50 years ago. Pennington?

Romo

Originally posted by jcs:
Romo

Yeah I'm sure they knew what they had with Romo, just like how the Patriots made Brady the third guy that they picked in the 6th round of the draft.

Originally posted by Heroism:
Wow, this person did a brilliant job of showing and explaining EXACTLY what I was referring to on the last page. This is a disconcerting flaw. The first two players that come to mind that have this flaw are Blaine Gabbert and Blake Bortles.

Concerning Mechanics

Mitch Trubisky

Before this gets out of hand, it should be established that Mitch Trubisky is not a bad quarterback prospect. He is a quality prospect who should turn out as a passable starting quarterback in the NFL. That being said, his post-drop footwork is consistently problematic, especially when throwing to his left or when throwing vertically.



Thankfully this throw was early in the game and Trubisky was able to make a handful of throws later on to help boost North Carolina to victory, but this is a painful miss. Trubisky put too much air under this ball.



Trubisky's first fault is progressively leaning back as he looks for a receiver and prepares to throw. By forcing that much weight on his back foot, Trubisky is forcing himself to exert unnecessary effort to bring his body forward, which is one of many ways that a quarterback can disrupt the synchronization of his throwing motion. Rearing back also makes it near impossible for Trubisky to properly use his plant foot. In the clip above, his plant foot is dangling in the air for a second, then is barely planted in the ground when Trubisky goes to throw.

The second error Trubisky makes is not following through with his motion. Trubisky does not follow through his motion and does not get any snap at the end of his rotation, leaving him to loft the ball rather than truly throw it. Trubisky restricted any chance of properly driving on the ball and putting this throw on a line.

This is a recurring issue for Trubisky. That is not to say he does this every time he goes vertically, but it shows up multiple times in each game and it's a tough theme to ignore.



Trubisky struggles to open properly to his left. His footwork looses its form and he fails to generate proper torque in order to cleanly get the ball off.



Again, Trubisky is leaning away from the throw. It looks a little different here than it does when he is looking to throw deep, but the issue remains the same. Once Trubisky completes his initial drop, his front leg begins to drift out wide. Trubisky never gains control of his front leg or counteracts the direction that his body is leaning, so Trubisky's only natural movement when going to throw is to further drift his body away from the throw as he goes to plant.

On this play, and others like it, Trubisky's plant foot hits the ground too tight to his midline because he needed to plant quickly to try to reestablish himself and prevent from leaning too far away from the throw. The sped up plant step ends up cutting Trubisky's rotation short, leaving his release to trail behind the rest of his body for just a tick longer than it should have. As a result, Trubisky's synchronization was disrupted and his release point was shifted from what is a more natural position for Trubisky.

I feel the need to reiterate that Trubisky is not a bad quarterback. Rather, he has repeated issues (like the two examples above) that litter his film catalog. Trubisky very well could break these poor habits, especially considering he is a player with little playing experience, but it would be ill-advised to bank on him doing so.

Here are my original posts in case anyone cares.

Originally posted by Heroism:
#2 is a massive flaw I've also noticed when watching Trubisky more closely. When he throws to his left, he has a habit of stepping completely perpendicular to his target instead of towards it before he even starts his delivery. His upper and lower body are not synchronized. I kept asking myself why something just doesn't look right at times when he throws, and I finally pinpointed that. He basically throws without his lower body in a lot of those throws to his left.

Pay attention to those gifs up above. Look closely at how he is fading away to his left once the ball leaves his hand. That's not good.

This is definitely a glaring flaw in his game he'll have to address.

Originally posted by Heroism:
Fired up the Stanford film, and it took me a minute to find an example:



you can really see it here. gross.



takes that funky side step he constantly does towards the sun bowl/unc logo rather than his target. this leads to that awkwardly tall posture, that wide throwing base and basically removes most of the power from his hips and weight transfer. once the ball leaves his hands, he's almost falling in the direction of that funky side step leg rather than towards his target. it almost makes it look like he's hopping as he throws the ball. he's basically muscling these throws. his body has little synchronicity.

conversely, watson has beautiful mechanics. note the direction of the first step and how well he transfers weight from his back leg to his front leg. Completely different than trubisky. watson throws with excellent posture and body synchronicity. his entire body is under control throughout his throw.

Side note: Watson is so money with the fade throws.

Shanahan's requirements for a QB are mechanics....he said he wants a guy with a natural throwing motion that won't require a QB guru to fix. That's not Trubisky who's going to need to sit for a season or two under a good QB coach and have his mechanics completely broken down and reworked.

Personally, there's zero chance I would take Trubisky at 2 after really examining his mechanical flaws. The odds he fixes that issue are remote.

Cam Newton is another guy who has that flaw but has been able to function in spite of it; however, he is a total outlier. He's a physical freak. Guys like Blaine Gabbert and Blake Bortles, who aren't freaks of nature, have seen their careers spiral out of control. All three guys have been in the NFL for many seasons; none of them has been able to fix this flaw. Trubisky is not a physical freak. These flaws will get exposed in the NFL. Defensive coordinators will expose these flaws and force him to throw where he's weakest.


if Trubisky really does come in at 6'1", there is zero chance he can be taken at 2. None.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by jcs:
Romo

Yeah I'm sure they knew what they had with Romo, just like how the Patriots made Brady the third guy that they picked in the 6th round of the draft.

He knew what he had...there were teams offering high draft picks for him before he took the team from Bledsoe..

Oh and I believe he also drafted Drew Bledsoe.

http://www.sportsxchange.com/ds97/walsh/walsh2qb.htm

Quarterback

By Bill Walsh

PSX Draft Insider Special

Ideal size: 6-3, 210

To become a great quarterback, there must be instincts and intuition. This is the area that can be the difference between a very solid quarterback and a great quarterback. This isn't an area you can do much with as a coach. You can certainly bring a quarterback up to a competitive standard, but to reach greatness the quarterback must possess that inherently, ala Billy Kilmer, Sonny Jurgensen, Ken Stabler and Warren Moon.

If throwing a ball were the only aspect of playing quarterback, then this would be an easy position to evaluate. However, because of the dynamic role he plays on the team, a quarterback must have physical, mental, emotional and instinctive traits that go well beyond the mere ability to pass a football.

Still, if he can't pass, he obviously won't be a good quarterback either. For now, let's assume our quarterback candidate has shown an ability to throw the ball.

Now, he must be courageous and intensely competitive. He will be the one on the field who is running the team. His teammates must believe in him or it may not matter how much physical ability he has. If he is courageous and intensely competitive, then other players will know and respect that. This will be a foundation for becoming a leader.

Naturally, he will have to perform up to certain physical standards to maintain that respect and become a leader.

Arm strength is somewhat misleading. Some players can throw 80 yards, but they aren't good passers. Good passing has to do with accuracy, timing, and throwing a ball with touch so it is catchable. This all involves understanding a system, the receivers in the system, and having great anticipation. It is a plus to be able to throw a ball on a line for 35 yards, but not if it is off target or arrives in such a way that it is difficult to catch.

Remember, the goal of passing a ball is to make sure it is caught ... by your intended receiver.

You look at how complete an inventory of throws a quarterback possesses -- from screen passes to timed short passes to medium range passes and down the field throws. This complete range. For the scout, not having a complete inventory does not eliminate the quarterback. But you are looking to evaluate in all facets and distances and types of passes in throwing the ball.

There have been quarterbacks of greatness, Hall of Fame quarterbacks, who didn't have a complete inventory of passes. But you're looking to see the potential of the quarterback in each area. You can see where the emphasis of the offense would be if he were with your team.

A quick delivery , one that is not telegraphed to help the defense, gives the quarterback an advantage when he finds his intended target. That's when it is essential to get the ball "up and gone'' with no wasted motion. Some of this can be acquired by learning proper technique. But to a certain degree, a quick release is related to a quarterback's reaction time between spotting his receiver and getting the ball "up and gone.''

Touch is important, especially in a medium range passing game. One of Joe Montana's most remarkable skills was putting the right touch on a pass so that it was easily catchable by a receiver, who often did not have to break stride.

The ability to read defenses is not something that players have learned to a high degree coming out of college. Even if they have, the pro defenses are very different. But most systems require quarterbacks to look at primary and secondary receivers, usually based on the defense that confronts him. You can see if he locates that secondary receiver -- or maybe even an emergency outlet receiver -- with ease or with a sense of urgency.

This should work like a natural progression, not a situation where it's -- "Oh, my gosh, now I must look over here ... no, over there.'' You can see which quarterbacks handle these situations with grace. These are the types who have a chance to perform with consistency in the NFL.

Mobility and an ability to avoid a pass rush are crucial. Some quarterbacks use this mobility within the pocket just enough so they are able to move and pass when they "feel" a rush. But overall quickness and agility can make a remarkable difference. As an example, there were some very quick boxers in Sugar Ray Leonard's era, but he was quicker than they were and because of that he became a great champ.

Quarterbacks must be able to function while injured. The pro season is about twice as long and more punishing than a college season. They are vulnerable to getting hit hard every time they pass. They must be able to avoid being rattled, get up and show they are in control and can continue to lead the offense.

The single trait that separates great quarterbacks from good quarterbacks is the ability to make the great, spontaneous decision, especially at a crucial time. The clock is running down and your team is five points behind. The play that was called has broken down and 22 players are moving in almost unpredictable directions all over the field.

This is where the great quarterback uses his experience, vision, mobility and what we will call spontaneous genius. He makes something good happen. This, of course, is what we saw in Joe Montana when he pulled out those dramatic victories for Notre Dame.

-Should have posted this on the Watson thread...

Originally posted by jcs:
He knew what he had...there were teams offering high draft picks for him before he took the team from Bledsoe..

Romo? Because if you're talking about Brady, Parcells wasn't around for Brady.

And nobody knew what they had with Brady, he was late round flyer, not even the first or second guy that they drafted in the 6th round, the Patriots went to the Circle K, bought a lottery ticket and hit the jackpot. That was pure luck, not scouting excellence.

Don Shula put it best.

" "He was there," Shula said. "When you take somebody that late in the draft, obviously you don't have great convictions about him. Otherwise you would have taken him a lot earlier."