DeShone Kizer QB, Notre Dame

I think he has a very bright future, depending on the situation he is dropped in he could be best QB in the class.

Originally posted by jcs:

Originally posted by jacklegniner:
Notre Dame fan here so I come with some bias, but this article does sum it up nicely. Last year Kizer looked calm and poised and nothing seemed to rattle him. For a young QB that had to come in because Zaire got injured, Kizer never seemed fazed when he threw a pick or the other team took the lead late in the game, he always appeared to be in control of the offense, his emotions, etc.

THis year was completely different. Tons of mental errors. For Notre Dame as a whole. Hard to point out exactly what was so off but the Matt Ryan analogy is great. Earlier this year Aaron Rodgers was flat as well and looked God awful.

Where to take Kizer in the draft is a mystery but I think he has what it takes and can fix the bad habits from this last year. My biggest fear is he slides far and somehow New England steals him.

If he's getting rushed and making bad decisions against unranked college teams imagine what he is going to do against a Defense like the Steelers.

You can say that about anybody. Every college Qb is going to have bad habits and lumps of bad games. Even the Pro's. Derek Carr had an amazing season but KC seemed to have his number. Rodgers looked terrible in the first half of the season.

Originally posted by jacklegniner:

Originally posted by jcs:

Originally posted by jacklegniner:
Notre Dame fan here so I come with some bias, but this article does sum it up nicely. Last year Kizer looked calm and poised and nothing seemed to rattle him. For a young QB that had to come in because Zaire got injured, Kizer never seemed fazed when he threw a pick or the other team took the lead late in the game, he always appeared to be in control of the offense, his emotions, etc.

THis year was completely different. Tons of mental errors. For Notre Dame as a whole. Hard to point out exactly what was so off but the Matt Ryan analogy is great. Earlier this year Aaron Rodgers was flat as well and looked God awful.

Where to take Kizer in the draft is a mystery but I think he has what it takes and can fix the bad habits from this last year. My biggest fear is he slides far and somehow New England steals him.

If he's getting rushed and making bad decisions against unranked college teams imagine what he is going to do against a Defense like the Steelers.

You can say that about anybody. Every college Qb is going to have bad habits and lumps of bad games. Even the Pro's. Derek Carr had an amazing season but KC seemed to have his number. Rodgers looked terrible in the first half of the season.

50.6% completion percentage in half of his games last season tells me he struggled with accuracy and pressure against unranked college teams.

Originally posted by jcs:

Originally posted by jacklegniner:

Originally posted by jcs:

Originally posted by jacklegniner:

Notre Dame fan here so I come with some bias, but this article does sum it up nicely. Last year Kizer looked calm and poised and nothing seemed to rattle him. For a young QB that had to come in because Zaire got injured, Kizer never seemed fazed when he threw a pick or the other team took the lead late in the game, he always appeared to be in control of the offense, his emotions, etc.

THis year was completely different. Tons of mental errors. For Notre Dame as a whole. Hard to point out exactly what was so off but the Matt Ryan analogy is great. Earlier this year Aaron Rodgers was flat as well and looked God awful.

Where to take Kizer in the draft is a mystery but I think he has what it takes and can fix the bad habits from this last year. My biggest fear is he slides far and somehow New England steals him.

If he's getting rushed and making bad decisions against unranked college teams imagine what he is going to do against a Defense like the Steelers.

You can say that about anybody. Every college Qb is going to have bad habits and lumps of bad games. Even the Pro's. Derek Carr had an amazing season but KC seemed to have his number. Rodgers looked terrible in the first half of the season.

50.6% completion percentage in half of his games last season tells me he struggled with accuracy and pressure against unranked college teams.

it tells me that his oline never gave him time, his receivers ddidn't get any seperation, and they dropped far too many balls. . .all this he couldn't do shot against unranked teams is bs yeah pros are bet Dr all around he will get more time to throw the ball in the NFL unless the browns draft him and his receivers will get just as much seperation they were that bad. his Windows will close faster for sure but it's all aaabout context numbers sometimes do lie contrary to what many believe

Originally posted by jcs:
Taking a Peak at his numbers he Completed less than 60% of his passes in 6 of his 12 games this season...that's half of his season.

Avg Completion percentage in those 6 games...50.6%. Take out the Hurricane game....53.8%

His completion percentage was under 60% in 5 games in 2016 including 4 (Michigan State, Stanford, Virginia Tech, USC) where his skill position players were completely outmatched. He completed 59.5% of his passes against Duke, but I'd hardly call that a bad game as he threw for 380 yards and a couple TDs and ran for 60 more yards and a TD (actually ran for closer to 80-90 yards if you take out sacks).

That isn't surprising at all when his completion percentage on the year is 61% when you take out the hurricane game. It's been well documented that he had very little help at the receiver position, losing his starting TE to injury before the season started, losing his top 2 WRs to the NFL, and losing arguably his #3 WR (Corey Robinson) to concussions before the season started. For a few games this year, a true freshman 3 star recruit who has no shot at ever playing in the NFL was his #2 WR.

In 2016, only one of Kizer's receivers will ever be drafted and he's a redshirt freshman who isn't even ranked in his class on nfldraftscout (Equanimeous St. Brown). Compare that to Watson who has at least 3 WRs and a TE who will be drafted in the next 2 years, with most of them going in the first 2 rounds (Mike Williams, Deon Cain, Jordan Leggett). There's a massive difference between throwing to a redshirt freshman and a true freshman who wasn't highly recruited a year ago and throwing to Mike Williams, Cain, and Leggett.

Final 2016 per-game stats (excluding the NC State hurricane game for Kizer and the Virginia Tech game for Trubisky):
Trubisky: 167.1 passer rating, 70.3% completion rate, 8.9 Y/A, 2.5 passing TDs, 0.3 INTs, 0.4 rushing TDs, 308 passing YPG, 26 rushing YPG
Kizer: 152.8 passer rating, 60.6% completion rate, 8.6 Y/A, 2.4 passing TDs, 0.7 INTs, 0.7 rushing TDs, 261 passing YPG, 42 rushing YPG
Watson: 151.1 passer rating, 67.0% completion rate, 7.9 Y/A, 2.7 passing TDs, 1.1 INTs, 0.6 rushing TDs, 306 passing YPG, 42 rushing YPG

Of the 3, Trubisky has the best stats this year and that really isn't debatable. He has the best passer rating by far, the best completion rate, the most yards per attempt, the best TD-interception ratio, and the most passing yards per game. The only question with him is whether this year was a fluke since he's only been a starter for one year.

I'd argue Kizer's stats are as impressive as Watson's considering who each of them was playing with. His yards per attempt is quite a bit higher, his passer rating is higher, and his TD/interception ratio is better. Watson played a tougher schedule once you factor in the postseason games, but his offense was more talented than every defense he played against except for Alabama. Clemson had 8 starters who are likely to be drafted in the first 3 rounds over the next two years. Notre Dame just has Kizer and maybe 2 offensive linemen (McGlinchey and Nelson). Kizer's completion % is an obvious red flag, but I think if you watch the games (Stanford in particular), you will recognize that accuracy isn't a big problem for him - he was forced to make more challenging throws than Watson and Trubisky and he doesn't have receivers that can bail him out on poor throws. He does occasionally display awful footwork and miss an easy throw, but all these guys have things to work on.

I still consider Kizer the 2nd best QB in the class behind Trubisky given his superior physical tools, but NFL teams are going to have to figure out how well some of these guys will adapt from spread offenses and learn to make reads in a new offense next year. Watson was impressive against Alabama making pre-snap reads and setting up his offensive line, so he may be the most NFL-ready of the three, but he also has the worst size and arm talent.

Arm Strength:
1. Kizer
2. Trubisky
3. Watson (Watson has an NFL arm, but Kizer can throw the ball 70+ yards as he showed in the Michigan State game before halftime and it looks like Trubisky has a better arm as well)

Accuracy:
1. Trubisky
2. Watson
3. Kizer (close to Watson, but less consistent)

Size:
1. Kizer
2. Trubisky
3. Watson

Mobility:
1. Watson
2. Kizer (close to Watson - more physical runner, but less elusive)
3. Trubisky

Intangibles:
1. Watson
2. ???
3. ???

Originally posted by eastcoast49ersfan:

Originally posted by jcs:

Taking a Peak at his numbers he Completed less than 60% of his passes in 6 of his 12 games this season...that's half of his season.

Avg Completion percentage in those 6 games...50.6%. Take out the Hurricane game....53.8%

His completion percentage was under 60% in 5 games in 2016 including 4 (Michigan State, Stanford, Virginia Tech, USC) where his skill position players were completely outmatched. He completed 59.5% of his passes against Duke, but I'd hardly call that a bad game as he threw for 380 yards and a couple TDs and ran for 60 more yards and a TD (actually ran for closer to 80-90 yards if you take out sacks).

That isn't surprising at all when his completion percentage on the year is 61% when you take out the hurricane game. It's been well documented that he had very little help at the receiver position, losing his starting TE to injury before the season started, losing his top 2 WRs to the NFL, and losing arguably his #3 WR (Corey Robinson) to concussions before the season started. For a few games this year, a true freshman 3 star recruit who has no shot at ever playing in the NFL was his #2 WR.

In 2016, only one of Kizer's receivers will ever be drafted and he's a redshirt freshman who isn't even ranked in his class on nfldraftscout (Equanimeous St. Brown). Compare that to Watson who has at least 3 WRs and a TE who will be drafted in the next 2 years, with most of them going in the first 2 rounds (Mike Williams, Deon Cain, Jordan Leggett). There's a massive difference between throwing to a redshirt freshman and a true freshman who wasn't highly recruited a year ago and throwing to Mike Williams, Cain, and Leggett.

Final 2016 per-game stats (excluding the NC State hurricane game for Kizer and the Virginia Tech game for Trubisky):
Trubisky: 167.1 passer rating, 70.3% completion rate, 8.9 Y/A, 2.5 passing TDs, 0.3 INTs, 0.4 rushing TDs, 308 passing YPG, 26 rushing YPG
Kizer: 152.8 passer rating, 60.6% completion rate, 8.6 Y/A, 2.4 passing TDs, 0.7 INTs, 0.7 rushing TDs, 261 passing YPG, 42 rushing YPG
Watson: 151.1 passer rating, 67.0% completion rate, 7.9 Y/A, 2.7 passing TDs, 1.1 INTs, 0.6 rushing TDs, 306 passing YPG, 42 rushing YPG

Of the 3, Trubisky has the best stats this year and that really isn't debatable. He has the best passer rating by far, the best completion rate, the most yards per attempt, the best TD-interception ratio, and the most passing yards per game. The only question with him is whether this year was a fluke since he's only been a starter for one year.

I'd argue Kizer's stats are as impressive as Watson's considering who each of them was playing with. His yards per attempt is quite a bit higher, his passer rating is higher, and his TD/interception ratio is better. Watson played a tougher schedule once you factor in the postseason games, but his offense was more talented than every defense he played against except for Alabama. Clemson had 8 starters who are likely to be drafted in the first 3 rounds over the next two years. Notre Dame just has Kizer and maybe 2 offensive linemen (McGlinchey and Nelson). Kizer's completion % is an obvious red flag, but I think if you watch the games (Stanford in particular), you will recognize that accuracy isn't a big problem for him - he was forced to make more challenging throws than Watson and Trubisky and he doesn't have receivers that can bail him out on poor throws. He does occasionally display awful footwork and miss an easy throw, but all these guys have things to work on.

I still consider Kizer the 2nd best QB in the class behind Trubisky given his superior physical tools, but NFL teams are going to have to figure out how well some of these guys will adapt from spread offenses and learn to make reads in a new offense next year. Watson was impressive against Alabama making pre-snap reads and setting up his offensive line, so he may be the most NFL-ready of the three, but he also has the worst size and arm talent.

Arm Strength:
1. Kizer
2. Trubisky
3. Watson (Watson has an NFL arm, but Kizer can throw the ball 70+ yards as he showed in the Michigan State game before halftime and it looks like Trubisky has a better arm as well)

Accuracy:
1. Trubisky
2. Watson
3. Kizer (close to Watson, but less consistent)

Size:
1. Kizer
2. Trubisky
3. Watson

Mobility:
1. Watson
2. Kizer (close to Watson - more physical runner, but less elusive)
3. Trubisky

Intangibles:
1. Watson
2. ???
3. ???

agree with most ever thing u Said

Kizer will grade out the best through the combine and at his pro day the upside he poses will be the tipping point in the competition with the other 2. Of Garrett goes one Kizer is our pick.

Anyone think kizer is the best fit for shanahan out of all the qbs?

Originally posted by gold49digger:
Anyone think kizer is the best fit for shanahan out of all the qbs?

He might be. He's got the best arm talent. Big bodied guy with mobility.

Trubisky and Watson are better throwing on the move and improvising. They are more fluid athletes.

What I like about all these guys is that they are pocket passers first, run second.

I think Mahomes has the best arm talent in the draft. That video of him throwing a 65-yard bomb from his knees was silly.

Originally posted by gold49digger:

Anyone think kizer is the best fit for shanahan out of all the qbs?

Think he would be fantastic in Kyle's offense.

He reminds me of a cross between Brett Hundley and Kaepernick. He probably has the best raw tools. But, as with Hundley and Kaepernick, I'm not sure that Kizer's put it all together yet.

Originally posted by Tman:

Originally posted by gold49digger:

Anyone think kizer is the best fit for shanahan out of all the qbs?

Think he would be fantastic in Kyle's offense.

I don't think he's even close to a fit for Kyle's offense to be honest...I could see him playing well in Cleveland under Hue though.

I think of Kizer was in Clemsons offend with Williams, Cain, Gallman ect. Or Trubisky's with the talent and scheme he had we wouldn't be questioning if Kizer was the top QB we'd be trying to figure out a way to get to the top of the draft to get this guy. If we draft Trubisky we'll be looking back in five years like we drafted Alex over Aaron again.

Originally posted by cdub80:
I think of Kizer was in Clemsons offend with Williams, Cain, Gallman ect. Or Trubisky's with the talent and scheme he had we wouldn't be questioning if Kizer was the top QB we'd be trying to figure out a way to get to the top of the draft to get this guy. If we draft Trubisky we'll be looking back in five years like we drafted Alex over Aaron again.

I think Kizer was definitely hurt by the departures of Will Fuller, Ronnie Stanley, and CJ Prosise. Brian Kelly also handled him poorly imo.

I think Trubisky and Watson should be considered the better prospects, but not by much. If we're taking draft value into account, Kizer might be better value in the late 1st, early 2nd than taking Trubisky or Watson at #2 overall imo.