CBs vs Pass Rushers

If it comes down to this:

Dareus or Prince?

I pick Dareus. I see him as very similar to J Smith - solid vs run and pass. And Prince is overrated and not the shut down CB most people see him as.

Originally posted by communist:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by communist:

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by communist:

Originally posted by Rsrkshn:

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by Joecool:
Pass Rusher is just easier to find. Good CB's are not.

I disagree completely, go back the last 3 years and you will find more busts at OLB then CB.

Conversely, How many shut down corners are there in the league, versus, how many good pass rushers. You have to look at both OLBs in the 3-4 and include DEs from the 4-3. I really cannot say with authority, but my very strong impression is that there are more of the latter.

who cares? if your pass-rush is bad, a shut-down corner wont help you anywhere...

if pass-rushers are easy to find, why dont we have any reliable pass-rusher at olb????

How big of an impact (sack wise) do you expect a rookie OLB to have? You sound like you are expecting double digit sacks right away.

i dont care about sacks in first place...i care about constant pressure that forces the QB to throw second-best passes or worse.

OK, out of the draft, how many different positions can you select a future CB from? One. Now, how many different positions can you possibly find an effective pass rusher? Effective pass rushers have been developed from OG's, DE, OLBs, ILBs, even SS and FBs,...DTs,....

look at the colts...they dont have any premium CB but they do have TWO pass-rushers, one of them was a 1st-round pick, by the way.
though they have these CBs, they still have an effective pass-rush...if you take a shutdown-CB, who will be help from day one, you will cover ONE target. but if you cant create pressure, that coverage will be useless, just look at rivers or manning and their WR-material. manning and rivers dont care about shutdown-corner but they do care about pass-rush a lot...i still have that game against the chargers, where manning ate a lot of grass. but when he had protection, he could throw nice passes, which werent been defended by their corners very well (iirc, both starting corners are 1st-round choices).

They haven't had the stingiest defense either. Their offense has saved them more times than their defense in the past 10 years. There's also a reason why they can only win one superbowl.

Originally posted by communist:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by communist:

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by communist:

Originally posted by Rsrkshn:

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by Joecool:
Pass Rusher is just easier to find. Good CB's are not.

I disagree completely, go back the last 3 years and you will find more busts at OLB then CB.

Conversely, How many shut down corners are there in the league, versus, how many good pass rushers. You have to look at both OLBs in the 3-4 and include DEs from the 4-3. I really cannot say with authority, but my very strong impression is that there are more of the latter.

who cares? if your pass-rush is bad, a shut-down corner wont help you anywhere...

if pass-rushers are easy to find, why dont we have any reliable pass-rusher at olb????

How big of an impact (sack wise) do you expect a rookie OLB to have? You sound like you are expecting double digit sacks right away.

i dont care about sacks in first place...i care about constant pressure that forces the QB to throw second-best passes or worse.

OK, out of the draft, how many different positions can you select a future CB from? One. Now, how many different positions can you possibly find an effective pass rusher? Effective pass rushers have been developed from OG's, DE, OLBs, ILBs, even SS and FBs,...DTs,....

look at the colts...they dont have any premium CB but they do have TWO pass-rushers, one of them was a 1st-round pick, by the way.
though they have these CBs, they still have an effective pass-rush...if you take a shutdown-CB, who will be help from day one, you will cover ONE target. but if you cant create pressure, that coverage will be useless, just look at rivers or manning and their WR-material. manning and rivers dont care about shutdown-corner but they do care about pass-rush a lot...i still have that game against the chargers, where manning ate a lot of grass. but when he had protection, he could throw nice passes, which werent been defended by their corners very well (iirc, both starting corners are 1st-round choices).

Explain Dallas

Since 1980 I can think of two excellent pass rushers on the 9ers--Haley and Dean. They had quite a few more CBs who were high quality, if not shut down. So, since the 9ers have not found a pass rusher since Haley, I think pass rushers are more difficult to find...at least in the bay area.

Originally posted by jreff22:


Explain Dallas

What about Dallas?

I mentioned this in another thread. One thing to remember if you get a good pass rusher at OLB you're getting another guy in the front 7 that the other team's offense has to account for.

Right now we really only have 2 players with that - Justin Smith and of course Patrick Willis.

You put a stud rush OLB next to Patrick and now they have 2 guys who really need to be accounted for, that's tough to do when you have all the other players in the front 7.

Right now it's not that big of a deal for other teams. They double team Justin and get a guy to look for Willis every play trying to get him out of the picture.

A good corner doesn't do that since he's so far away from the LOS. If they want to avoid him they just don't throw to his side(and he has to be DAMN good for that to be avoided completely)

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by jreff22:


Explain Dallas

What about Dallas?

I mentioned this in another thread. One thing to remember if you get a good pass rusher at OLB you're getting another guy in the front 7 that the other team's offense has to account for.

Right now we really only have 2 players with that - Justin Smith and of course Patrick Willis.

You put a stud rush OLB next to Patrick and now they have 2 guys who really need to be accounted for, that's tough to do when you have all the other players in the front 7.

Right now it's not that big of a deal for other teams. They double team Justin and get a guy to look for Willis every play trying to get him out of the picture.

A good corner doesn't do that since he's so far away from the LOS. If they want to avoid him they just don't throw to his side(and he has to be DAMN good for that to be avoided completely)

The argument I keep hearing is a pass rusher makes opposing QB's apparently unable to play effectively. Dallas has one, but ended up 26th in passing D and is in the market for a CB. Why are they looking for CB's if pass rushers make mediocre CB's look good and are soooooo great at stopping the pass? Apparently it doesn't work in Dallas and I'm wondering why!

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by jreff22:


Explain Dallas

What about Dallas?

I mentioned this in another thread. One thing to remember if you get a good pass rusher at OLB you're getting another guy in the front 7 that the other team's offense has to account for.

Right now we really only have 2 players with that - Justin Smith and of course Patrick Willis.

You put a stud rush OLB next to Patrick and now they have 2 guys who really need to be accounted for, that's tough to do when you have all the other players in the front 7.

Right now it's not that big of a deal for other teams. They double team Justin and get a guy to look for Willis every play trying to get him out of the picture.

A good corner doesn't do that since he's so far away from the LOS. If they want to avoid him they just don't throw to his side(and he has to be DAMN good for that to be avoided completely)

The argument I keep hearing is a pass rusher makes opposing QB's apparently unable to play effectively. Dallas has one, but ended up 26th in passing D and is in the market for a CB. Why are they looking for CB's if pass rushers make mediocre CB's look good and are soooooo great at stopping the pass? Apparently it doesn't work in Dallas and I'm wondering why!

They have less than mediocre CBs? Of course you need good players at every position if you expect to be an elete team. Question is whether great CBs can win matches against great recievers if there is no pass rush? I like the argument that some coaches/systems can manufacture a pass rush through scheme. Then CBs may be more important?!

[ Edited by dtg_9er on Feb 1, 2011 at 20:13:59 ]

With Dallas, they had Mike Jenkins playing like an UDFA. He was torched week in and week out, often giving ip on plays. He wasn't the only one either. Once Wade left and players were held accountable, they started tightening up a little on defense. Jenkins practically killed that defense single-handedly though.

To me, they (similar to us) show the importance of having solid safeties. It's probably the most underated position on the field and definitely on defense.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by jreff22:


Explain Dallas

What about Dallas?

I mentioned this in another thread. One thing to remember if you get a good pass rusher at OLB you're getting another guy in the front 7 that the other team's offense has to account for.

Right now we really only have 2 players with that - Justin Smith and of course Patrick Willis.

You put a stud rush OLB next to Patrick and now they have 2 guys who really need to be accounted for, that's tough to do when you have all the other players in the front 7.

Right now it's not that big of a deal for other teams. They double team Justin and get a guy to look for Willis every play trying to get him out of the picture.

A good corner doesn't do that since he's so far away from the LOS. If they want to avoid him they just don't throw to his side(and he has to be DAMN good for that to be avoided completely)

The argument I keep hearing is a pass rusher makes opposing QB's apparently unable to play effectively. Dallas has one, but ended up 26th in passing D and is in the market for a CB. Why are they looking for CB's if pass rushers make mediocre CB's look good and are soooooo great at stopping the pass? Apparently it doesn't work in Dallas and I'm wondering why!

They have less than mediocre CBs? Of course you need good players at every position if you expect to be an elete team. Question is whether great CBs can win matches against great recievers if there is no pass rush? I like the argument that some coaches/systems can manufacture a pass rush through scheme. Then CBs may be more important?!

How would you classify us at CB? Nate could be gone, so we have Spencer and nobody....that looks less then mediocre to me , even if we kept Nate.

the best way to disrupt an O is to mess up the internal clock that a qb operates by. the best way to do that is pressure.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Since 1980 I can think of two excellent pass rushers on the 9ers--Haley and Dean. They had quite a few more CBs who were high quality, if not shut down. So, since the 9ers have not found a pass rusher since Haley, I think pass rushers are more difficult to find...at least in the bay area.

Tim Harris, Doleman, Bryant Young, Andre Carter. Now, besides Deon for one year, how many shut down corners have we had?

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Since 1980 I can think of two excellent pass rushers on the 9ers--Haley and Dean. They had quite a few more CBs who were high quality, if not shut down. So, since the 9ers have not found a pass rusher since Haley, I think pass rushers are more difficult to find...at least in the bay area.

Tim Harris, Doleman, Bryant Young, Andre Carter. Now, besides Deon for one year, how many shut down corners have we had?

eric wright and tim mccyer(sp) to an extent

Originally posted by jreff22:

How would you classify us at CB? Nate could be gone, so we have Spencer and nobody....that looks less then mediocre to me , even if we kept Nate.

if our cbs are so damn bad, dont you think that even a mid-rounder will upgrade them?

[ Edited by communist on Feb 2, 2011 at 06:39:16 ]

Originally posted by communist:

Originally posted by jreff22:

How would you classify us at CB? Nate could be gone, so we have Spencer and nobody....that looks less then mediocre to me , even if we kept Nate.

if our qbs are so damn bad, dont you think that even a mid-rounder will upgrade them?

Nope, Brown was a mid rounder and he should be better then any mid round CB project. Expecting a 3rd, 4th, or even 5th rounder to take the place of a #1 CB is ridiculous.

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by communist:

Originally posted by jreff22:

How would you classify us at CB? Nate could be gone, so we have Spencer and nobody....that looks less then mediocre to me , even if we kept Nate.

if our qbs are so damn bad, dont you think that even a mid-rounder will upgrade them?

Nope, Brown was a mid rounder and he should be better then any mid round CB project. Expecting a 3rd, 4th, or even 5th rounder to take the place of a #1 CB is ridiculous.

what about a 2nd-rounder?