Shaq retires

Originally posted by FL9er:
You could make a case for him being the best ever with a mid-range jumper and better FT shooting.

No question that Shaq with work ethic would be the greatest basketball player. ever.

Imagine if Shaq stayed in shape

Originally posted by crzy:

Originally posted by FL9er:
You could make a case for him being the best ever with a mid-range jumper and better FT shooting.

No question that Shaq with work ethic would be the greatest basketball player. ever.

Imagine if Shaq stayed in shape

I think that is debatable. The wear and tear on a 7 foot 300 pound guy's body from running and jumping on a hardwood floor probably are going to be the same whether he stayed in shape or not. Most over 30 year old seven footers have injury issues no matter what shape they are in. Look at Kobe Bryant, he works hard, stays in top shape only 6'7" and 200# and is starting to have injury issues.

Sorry if posted already

Lakers Will Retire Shaq's Number

The Los Angeles Lakers plan to honor their former self-proclaimed Superman, Shaquille O'Neal, by raising his No. 34 jersey to the rafters.

"We don't have any specific timetable on this, but you can be assured we will retire Shaq's jersey," said Lakers spokesman John Black in an email on Wednesday.

O'Neal, 39, revealed his retirement earlier Wednesday using the new social media tool Tout, a real-time video messaging service, to announce to fans: "We did it. Nineteen years baby. I want to thank you very much, that's why I'm telling you first, I'm about to retire. Love you, talk to you soon."

Read more: http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/213955/Lakers_Will_Retire_Shaqs_Number#ixzz1O90TLUT5

Originally posted by BobS:

Originally posted by crzy:

Originally posted by FL9er:
You could make a case for him being the best ever with a mid-range jumper and better FT shooting.

No question that Shaq with work ethic would be the greatest basketball player. ever.

Imagine if Shaq stayed in shape

I think that is debatable. The wear and tear on a 7 foot 300 pound guy's body from running and jumping on a hardwood floor probably are going to be the same whether he stayed in shape or not. Most over 30 year old seven footers have injury issues no matter what shape they are in. Look at Kobe Bryant, he works hard, stays in top shape only 6'7" and 200# and is starting to have injury issues.

I strongly disagree with that statement.

Not only would Shaq staying in shape helped him stay more healthy, but the extra weight he was carrying made him far slower and less explosive.

Originally posted by dobo:
Actually, this has got me thinking. Is there a fanbase that has had as adversarial relationship with Shaq as San Antonio?

San Antonio LOVED him when he was in high school and even at LSU. Then he came into San Antonio as a pro and started smack talking the Admiral. Then he joined the Lakers -- the Lakers! -- and started smack talking Duncan and called the Spurs a WNBA team.

In many ways, Robinson was the perfect foil for Shaq. One, he was a boring, God-fearing, all-around nice guy. Two, he was an established superstar, arguably the best center in the league when Shaq joined the league. Three, his style was the opposite of Shaq's. Robinson was a slender, face-the-basket, athletic freak who had decent range. Shaq was a more traditional big; he lived in the post and just physically dominated his opponents on both ends.

Aguably the 2nd best maybe. Hakeem owned him, especially when it mattered most. I like DRob, but he didn't win anything until TD came to town.

Originally posted by TX9R:

Originally posted by dobo:
Actually, this has got me thinking. Is there a fanbase that has had as adversarial relationship with Shaq as San Antonio?

San Antonio LOVED him when he was in high school and even at LSU. Then he came into San Antonio as a pro and started smack talking the Admiral. Then he joined the Lakers -- the Lakers! -- and started smack talking Duncan and called the Spurs a WNBA team.

In many ways, Robinson was the perfect foil for Shaq. One, he was a boring, God-fearing, all-around nice guy. Two, he was an established superstar, arguably the best center in the league when Shaq joined the league. Three, his style was the opposite of Shaq's. Robinson was a slender, face-the-basket, athletic freak who had decent range. Shaq was a more traditional big; he lived in the post and just physically dominated his opponents on both ends.

Aguably the 2nd best maybe. Hakeem owned him, especially when it mattered most. I like DRob, but he didn't win anything until TD came to town.

I agree, Hakeem was a better player. I honestly believe Tim Duncan, in his prime, would give Hakeem some trouble...but Tim Duncan is a "SF".

Dobo, I think Shaq's animosity towards Robinson was about an issue when Shaq was younger and Robinson denied him an autograph. I remember hearing about something like that.

On another note, am I the only one who believes Tim Duncan should be a top 5 player EVER? Has there been any other play to win multiple championships without a superstar #2? Don't get me wrong, D. Robinson was a top 50 ever but was not the same player during the Spurs 1st championship. Also, how about Tim Duncan's 3rd and 4th rings. He is the only player I can think of to win multiple rings without a dominant sidekick that requires a double-team.

Hakeem was unquestionably better than Shaq in 95, but it's debateable who had a better career.

Originally posted by Joecool:
On another note, am I the only one who believes Tim Duncan should be a top 5 player EVER?

Yes.

I don't see how Duncan can be placed over Jordan, Wilt, Russell, Kareem, or Magic

Those shoes completely give away the personalities.

Originally posted by crzy:
Hakeem was unquestionably better than Shaq in 95, but it's debateable who had a better career.

Originally posted by crzy:

Originally posted by Joecool:
On another note, am I the only one who believes Tim Duncan should be a top 5 player EVER?

Yes.

I don't see how Duncan can be placed over Jordan, Wilt, Russell, Kareem, or Magic

Tim Duncan did not have anywhere near the talent around him as Magic and Kareem had and he won 4 titles. If Kobe and Shaq can be considered near the top 5 all time and they won 3 titles together, I don't see how Duncan is out of that conversation or even ahead of it winning 4 in the same era as those two did while being on the same team.

Now I can see how Bill Russell gets credit taken away due to being more about team and less about stats. Tim Duncan was less about stats and dynamics but got the job done when the team jumped on his back.

Hakeem never owned Shaq, especially not in that '95 Finals series. That's one of those things that's gotten repeated so many times that it's become "true". They played to a basic dead heat in that series. But Horry, Drexler, Cassell, etc. completely outplayed the Magic guys.

Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Hakeem never owned Shaq, especially not in that '95 Finals series. That's one of those things that's gotten repeated so many times that it's become "true". They played to a basic dead heat in that series. But Horry, Drexler, Cassell, etc. completely outplayed the Magic guys.

Shaq was quoted in saying he got owned. This is one matchup where the stats completely hide what actually happened. Shaq could not handle Hakeem man-up and when he tried, he got whooped. They had to help a lot which left those shooters open a lot.

The Rockets let Shaq have his points but stayed on everyone else, which is why they won.

pts stats:
The Dream: 31, 34, 31, 35
Shaq: 26, 33, 28, 25

like the Lakers when it was just Shaq's team. started hatin' when it became Kobe's team. still a big Shaq fan. dude was a straight baller way back in the day.

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Hakeem never owned Shaq, especially not in that '95 Finals series. That's one of those things that's gotten repeated so many times that it's become "true". They played to a basic dead heat in that series. But Horry, Drexler, Cassell, etc. completely outplayed the Magic guys.

Shaq was quoted in saying he got owned. This is one matchup where the stats completely hide what actually happened. Shaq could not handle Hakeem man-up and when he tried, he got whooped. They had to help a lot which left those shooters open a lot.

The Rockets let Shaq have his points but stayed on everyone else, which is why they won.

pts stats:
The Dream: 31, 34, 31, 35
Shaq: 26, 33, 28, 25

Shaq was the only guy in those playoffs that remotely contained Olajuwon in those playoffs, but Dream just took a ton of shots. Look...I'm not saying that Olajuwon wasn't great, because he was, but so was Shaq. Shaq outrebounded him, blocked more shots, shot 57% from the field, and racked up a ton of assists in that series. He was just as dominant as Olajuwon was.

By the way, Shaq also called Kobe the "best player in the NBA BY FAR"...in 2001. Take what Shaq says with a grain of salt.

Originally posted by dobo:
Hakeem's greatness is greatly exaggerated in retrospect, thanks to his brief reign of invincibility and his youtube-friendly dream shake.

Hakeem is my favorite non-Laker ever, but I agree with this.