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***General NBA Discussion Thread***

Originally posted by Otter:
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
LOL at everyone blaming the players.

You seem firmly entrenched on the side of the players. Why?

I'm at best a very casual basketball fan. Looking at this thing from my perspective, it seems like neither side is really worth supporting.

One of your points is that the NBA had record breaking revenues last year, made $200M more than previous years. That doesn't necessarily translate in to profit. From what I understand, there isn't really revenue sharing in the NBA either, like the NFL. So if that $200M was generated by only the 16 playoff teams, for example, then that still leaves roughly half of the other teams with financials that remained the same or possibly got worse.

Now one thing that shouldn't be overlooked by the people chastising the players is that there is some very strange record keeping in the NBA. The owners have holding companies that own the stadiums and rent them to the team, so this looks like an expense to the team when really it's going back in to the owners pockets. And that treatment of player's salaries that effectively equates them to cattle certainly provides for a hit to profit without taking any cash away from the owners.

I don't see the last offer as an ultimatum either. There certainly seems to be a number of owners that want the season dead so that they can move to a 47% or less cut for the players, but there were also a number that are ready to write checks and get back to games. (See, Mark Cuban isn't such a bad guy) I think that last offer rejected by the players represents Stern pushing on the owners that don't want a season to compromise.

Just some random thoughts, musings, and occasional insight from a novice fan. (I gotta stop reading Don Banks)

This is about where I stand also. Couldn't one say that players have received more salary in 2010 than ever? That doesn't translate to the PA as a whole but more-so to a select few players. Now let's include their endorsement contracts.

It would be nice if everyone opened their books and then made a true "fair" deal, not for owners or players but for the NBA.

The other side is that in the last CBA, that 57% number makes it appear that the owners agreed to give the players a heavily favored deal. Yes, it is rare to request a drop of 7% in bargaining but it got to 57% through a few deals due to the fact that the NBA WAS making profit and the owners agreed to share it.

Now, I'm sure the NBA isn't making as much in NET as they were even if it was a record breaking year in sales.

The fact is, if the owners were being greedy, then how did they ever give the players 57% to begin with? I think it has more to do with the fact that the owners want it to be more balanced and the players are being greedy.
Originally posted by WillistheWall:
Originally posted by niners4lyfe:
I blame both sides; plain and simple. I'll literally laugh my ass off if the NHL takes over the NBA as far as popularity. But real talk, i much rather watch the sharks play than the sacramento kings before teh NBA lock out.

booooooooooo



  • Otter
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 22,936
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by Otter:
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
LOL at everyone blaming the players.

You seem firmly entrenched on the side of the players. Why?

I'm at best a very casual basketball fan. Looking at this thing from my perspective, it seems like neither side is really worth supporting.

One of your points is that the NBA had record breaking revenues last year, made $200M more than previous years. That doesn't necessarily translate in to profit. From what I understand, there isn't really revenue sharing in the NBA either, like the NFL. So if that $200M was generated by only the 16 playoff teams, for example, then that still leaves roughly half of the other teams with financials that remained the same or possibly got worse.

Now one thing that shouldn't be overlooked by the people chastising the players is that there is some very strange record keeping in the NBA. The owners have holding companies that own the stadiums and rent them to the team, so this looks like an expense to the team when really it's going back in to the owners pockets. And that treatment of player's salaries that effectively equates them to cattle certainly provides for a hit to profit without taking any cash away from the owners.

I don't see the last offer as an ultimatum either. There certainly seems to be a number of owners that want the season dead so that they can move to a 47% or less cut for the players, but there were also a number that are ready to write checks and get back to games. (See, Mark Cuban isn't such a bad guy) I think that last offer rejected by the players represents Stern pushing on the owners that don't want a season to compromise.

Just some random thoughts, musings, and occasional insight from a novice fan. (I gotta stop reading Don Banks)

This is about where I stand also. Couldn't one say that players have received more salary in 2010 than ever? That doesn't translate to the PA as a whole but more-so to a select few players. Now let's include their endorsement contracts.

It would be nice if everyone opened their books and then made a true "fair" deal, not for owners or players but for the NBA.

The other side is that in the last CBA, that 57% number makes it appear that the owners agreed to give the players a heavily favored deal. Yes, it is rare to request a drop of 7% in bargaining but it got to 57% through a few deals due to the fact that the NBA WAS making profit and the owners agreed to share it.

Now, I'm sure the NBA isn't making as much in NET as they were even if it was a record breaking year in sales.

The fact is, if the owners were being greedy, then how did they ever give the players 57% to begin with? I think it has more to do with the fact that the owners want it to be more balanced and the players are being greedy.

I don't see it as just the players being greedy. There has been plenty of mismanagement on the side of the owners and now they're looking for a deal that will protect them from themselves, and they want the players to pay for it. On the other hand salaries have gotten out of control, everyone involved is responsible for this, and there needs to be a return to financial prudence.

The whole thing is odd. If most of the owners weren't already multi-millionaires or billionaires, I'd be rooting strongly for a canceled season so everyone involved would feel the financial pinch and realize how stupid they're being. But I don't see a cancelled season having much of an impact on most of these guys. The Maloofs are the exception of course.
Originally posted by Otter:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by Otter:
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
LOL at everyone blaming the players.

You seem firmly entrenched on the side of the players. Why?

I'm at best a very casual basketball fan. Looking at this thing from my perspective, it seems like neither side is really worth supporting.

One of your points is that the NBA had record breaking revenues last year, made $200M more than previous years. That doesn't necessarily translate in to profit. From what I understand, there isn't really revenue sharing in the NBA either, like the NFL. So if that $200M was generated by only the 16 playoff teams, for example, then that still leaves roughly half of the other teams with financials that remained the same or possibly got worse.

Now one thing that shouldn't be overlooked by the people chastising the players is that there is some very strange record keeping in the NBA. The owners have holding companies that own the stadiums and rent them to the team, so this looks like an expense to the team when really it's going back in to the owners pockets. And that treatment of player's salaries that effectively equates them to cattle certainly provides for a hit to profit without taking any cash away from the owners.

I don't see the last offer as an ultimatum either. There certainly seems to be a number of owners that want the season dead so that they can move to a 47% or less cut for the players, but there were also a number that are ready to write checks and get back to games. (See, Mark Cuban isn't such a bad guy) I think that last offer rejected by the players represents Stern pushing on the owners that don't want a season to compromise.

Just some random thoughts, musings, and occasional insight from a novice fan. (I gotta stop reading Don Banks)

This is about where I stand also. Couldn't one say that players have received more salary in 2010 than ever? That doesn't translate to the PA as a whole but more-so to a select few players. Now let's include their endorsement contracts.

It would be nice if everyone opened their books and then made a true "fair" deal, not for owners or players but for the NBA.

The other side is that in the last CBA, that 57% number makes it appear that the owners agreed to give the players a heavily favored deal. Yes, it is rare to request a drop of 7% in bargaining but it got to 57% through a few deals due to the fact that the NBA WAS making profit and the owners agreed to share it.

Now, I'm sure the NBA isn't making as much in NET as they were even if it was a record breaking year in sales.

The fact is, if the owners were being greedy, then how did they ever give the players 57% to begin with? I think it has more to do with the fact that the owners want it to be more balanced and the players are being greedy.

I don't see it as just the players being greedy. There has been plenty of mismanagement on the side of the owners and now they're looking for a deal that will protect them from themselves, and they want the players to pay for it. On the other hand salaries have gotten out of control, everyone involved is responsible for this, and there needs to be a return to financial prudence.

The whole thing is odd. If most of the owners weren't already multi-millionaires or billionaires, I'd be rooting strongly for a canceled season so everyone involved would feel the financial pinch and realize how stupid they're being. But I don't see a cancelled season having much of an impact on most of these guys. The Maloofs are the exception of course.

What really sucks is that the players who don't earn lucrative money and the people who work in the arenas probably have trouble paying their mortgages.
WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski
The NBA informed teams late this afternoon that games through December 15th have been cancelled, a front office executive says.


Just cancel the season already
Originally posted by valrod33:
WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski
The NBA informed teams late this afternoon that games through December 15th have been cancelled, a front office executive says.


Just cancel the season already

Not yet! The Spurs are banking on this for #5.
  • Otter
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 22,936
Originally posted by valrod33:
WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski
The NBA informed teams late this afternoon that games through December 15th have been cancelled, a front office executive says.


Just cancel the season already

I told you Christmas games were going to be canceled. You obviously did not book it, like I told you to.
Originally posted by marshniners24:
Originally posted by WillistheWall:
Originally posted by niners4lyfe:
I blame both sides; plain and simple. I'll literally laugh my ass off if the NHL takes over the NBA as far as popularity. But real talk, i much rather watch the sharks play than the sacramento kings before teh NBA lock out.

booooooooooo




ay foo, facts are facts. I like the NBA but it's getting waaaaay too corrupt. I think Stern needs to go. I just don't like him.
So is there any chance of this thing getting solved
Originally posted by JerryRice1848:
So is there any chance of this thing getting solved

Probably not before the new year.
Gotta share this with you guys...

So my job at that High School was to be the JV coach, who doubles as the varsity coach's assistant. In fact, 95% of the job has been making sure that the varsity coach's wishes are being carried out. There hasn't been too much in the way of autonomy.

Well, as grateful as I am that he gave me the opportunity to coach, this guy has no idea what he's doing. We've been trying to implement Duke's defensive scheme, John Wooden's fast break offense from the early 60's (it's complicated considering it only gets you to half court), and you wanna know what our half court set has been?....the freaking triangle offense. The triangle! To High School kids with the most basic understanding of basketball! His POV is that he wants to copy those who he's felt have been the most successful coaches, but without any degree of analysis as to why things worked for them. And he doesn't know any of those systems fluently at all. Needless to say, it's been a REAL struggle to even get our first fast break play mastered. It's been like trying to teach calculus to someone who doesn't know how to divide yet.

He's just as bad with his understanding of fundamentals. He gives really poor and incorrect advise, and have had to bite my tongue in front of the kids, teach things his way, and then argue with him behind closed doors. He's a nice guy, but knows very, very little about the game. The girl's coach, AD, and assistant AD (former college & HS b-ball coach) have all expressed the same concerns. I've never expressed my concerns to them, because my job's been to support him in public (and disagree with private).

Anyhow, due to unforeseen circumstances at his job, he resigned his position today. The AD and assistant AD discussed the matter, and offered me the job. 5 months after I quit my job for the purpose of going back to school to become a history teacher and basketball coach, I've had an entire HS basketball program fall right into my lap! Amazing!
[ Edited by LA9erFan on Nov 15, 2011 at 6:35 PM ]
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Gotta share this with you guys...

So my job at that High School was to be the JV coach, who doubles as the varsity coach's assistant. In fact, 95% of the job has been making sure that the varsity coach's wishes are being carried out. There hasn't been too much in the way of autonomy.

Well, as grateful as I am that he gave me the opportunity to coach, this guy has no idea what he's doing. We've been trying to implement Duke's defensive scheme, John Wooden's fast break offense from the early 60's (it's complicated considering it only gets you to half court), and you wanna know what our half court set has been?....the freaking triangle offense. The triangle! To High School kids with the most basic understanding of basketball! His POV is that he wants to copy those who he's felt have been the most successful coaches, but without any degree of analysis as to why things worked for them. And he doesn't know any of those systems fluently at all. Needless to say, it's been a REAL struggle to even get our first fast break play mastered. It's been like trying to teach calculus to someone who doesn't know how to divide yet.

He's just as bad with his understanding of fundamentals. He gives really poor and incorrect advise, and have had to bite my tongue in front of the kids, teach things his way, and then argue with him behind closed doors. He's a nice guy, but knows very, very little about the game. The girl's coach, AD, and assistant AD (former college & HS b-ball coach) have all expressed the same concerns. I've never expressed my concerns to them, because my job's been to support him in public (and disagree with private).

Anyhow, due to unforeseen circumstances at his job, he resigned his position today. The AD and assistant AD discussed the matter, and offered me the job. 5 months after I quit my job for the purpose of going back to school to become a history teacher and basketball coach, I've had an entire HS basketball program fall right into my lap! Amazing!

Congrats Pete!!!!!!!! What school? Maybe I will come watch.
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Congrats Pete!!!!!!!! What school? Maybe I will come watch.

Thanks, John! It's Foshay Learning Center High School in LA. The cross streets are Exposition & Western, pretty close to USC. It'd be great to meet you, man.

Last year their average margin of defeat was 40 points, and I've got 3 weeks before our first game to implement the most basic of things (), so you might wanna come to a game later in the year.
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Congrats Pete!!!!!!!! What school? Maybe I will come watch.

Thanks, John! It's Foshay Learning Center High School in LA. The cross streets are Exposition & Western, pretty close to USC. It'd be great to meet you, man.

Last year their average margin of defeat was 40 points, and I've got 3 weeks before our first game to implement the most basic of things (), so you might wanna come to a game later in the year.

Cool. Maybe later in the year then!
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Gotta share this with you guys...

So my job at that High School was to be the JV coach, who doubles as the varsity coach's assistant. In fact, 95% of the job has been making sure that the varsity coach's wishes are being carried out. There hasn't been too much in the way of autonomy.

Well, as grateful as I am that he gave me the opportunity to coach, this guy has no idea what he's doing. We've been trying to implement Duke's defensive scheme, John Wooden's fast break offense from the early 60's (it's complicated considering it only gets you to half court), and you wanna know what our half court set has been?....the freaking triangle offense. The triangle! To High School kids with the most basic understanding of basketball! His POV is that he wants to copy those who he's felt have been the most successful coaches, but without any degree of analysis as to why things worked for them. And he doesn't know any of those systems fluently at all. Needless to say, it's been a REAL struggle to even get our first fast break play mastered. It's been like trying to teach calculus to someone who doesn't know how to divide yet.

He's just as bad with his understanding of fundamentals. He gives really poor and incorrect advise, and have had to bite my tongue in front of the kids, teach things his way, and then argue with him behind closed doors. He's a nice guy, but knows very, very little about the game. The girl's coach, AD, and assistant AD (former college & HS b-ball coach) have all expressed the same concerns. I've never expressed my concerns to them, because my job's been to support him in public (and disagree with private).

Anyhow, due to unforeseen circumstances at his job, he resigned his position today. The AD and assistant AD discussed the matter, and offered me the job. 5 months after I quit my job for the purpose of going back to school to become a history teacher and basketball coach, I've had an entire HS basketball program fall right into my lap! Amazing!

thats f**king sick bro
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