Poll for NBA fans (crosses fingers.........)

This question just blew me away on some ESPN poll. If we can, keep this on topic of Kobe's past 10 years, and Lebron's next 10. Not who's better now, then, or blah blah blah.



***sidenote: I'm fully expecting this to blow the eff up, but I don't have to deal with it anymore, so f**k it.***



As far as my opinion, Lebron is going to have to go Jordan-esque level of crazy to surpass Kobe's 4 titles, 35 ppg average for a season, and all that Kobe has achieved. Not to say he can't do it, but I think that's what it take for his next 10 to surpass Kobe's last 10. Only time will tell who's 10 was superior, and I'm sure it will still be debated to an ungodly length at that point.

10 years of Jordan

I think it's hard to make this comparison. Kobe went to a playoff team with prime Shaq and was able to be eased in. His first 3 titles he was not the primary player, Shaq was. He may have 4 rings but only 1 as the primary player. To me LeBron only needs 2-3 to pass Kobe.
LeBron went to a perennial nothing team with nothing players and was expected to be the saviour from day one. He still doesn't have the kind of help Kobe enjoyed the first half of his career, and the last few years. Individually, LeBron has a much higher ceiling because physically there's never been another player with his combo of size, speed, and court vision.
A lot will ride on what LeBron does this summer. If he goes to NY, he can kiss about 3 years of his prime away and will be lucky to win more than one title. If he stays in Cleveland and they manage to get him at least one All Star in his prime, he could easily win several titles.
As far as the comparison you have to believe the next 10 years of LeBron have the potential to be the greatest we've ever seen a player have. Or he could blow out a knee tomorrow and never be the same. Who knows?

Originally posted by valrod33:
10 years of Jordan

haha. off topic.

Kobes probably the best shooting guard to play the game...Who knows what gonna happen in Lebrons next 10 years..Kobes last 10 years is one of the decades for any player int he history of the NBA..
Who knows what happens in Lebron's 10 years? What if he gets injured? What if he blows out his knee, hed never be the same

lebron is much more explosive and more fun to watch than kobe, but being a laker fan and seeing the things kobe has done, it's hard to choose. kobe is ridiculous, but lebron is too

Originally posted by TX9R:
I think it's hard to make this comparison. Kobe went to a playoff team with prime Shaq and was able to be eased in. His first 3 titles he was not the primary player, Shaq was. He may have 4 rings but only 1 as the primary player. To me LeBron only needs 2-3 to pass Kobe.
LeBron went to a perennial nothing team with nothing players and was expected to be the saviour from day one. He still doesn't have the kind of help Kobe enjoyed the first half of his career, and the last few years. Individually, LeBron has a much higher ceiling because physically there's never been another player with his combo of size, speed, and court vision.
A lot will ride on what LeBron does this summer. If he goes to NY, he can kiss about 3 years of his prime away and will be lucky to win more than one title. If he stays in Cleveland and they manage to get him at least one All Star in his prime, he could easily win several titles.
As far as the comparison you have to believe the next 10 years of LeBron have the potential to be the greatest we've ever seen a player have. Or he could blow out a knee tomorrow and never be the same. Who knows?

Did you even watch those finals games when Kobe had Shaq? Kobe straight took over games back in the day when Shaq had fouled out, or when they were trying to go hack a shaq.

Maybe Sha was in his prime and dominant, but Kobe was no "secondary" player.

Look at that video where Shaq got that oop from Kobe. Look at who Kobe made look like a complete fool to set that play up.

Very hard question to answer. I think up to this year, Kobe was the best player in the league. Lebron might of surpassed him this year. But when the game is on the line, Kobe is still the best and IMO the best clutch player ever.

As far as Lebron's next 10 years go, he doesn't need to match Kobe's titles to end up being better. This is because Lebron will not play with a guy like Shaq in his prime, to get some rings. If Lebron gets a couple of rings and becomes ice cold in the clutch (he might already be) I think he might go down as the best ever. His combination of speed and power is unmatched in NBA history. Also his unique passing ability is crazy. So, I think Lebron's next 10 will be better.

Lebron is on another level than Kobe Bryant. He has been for years now. There has never been a physical specimen like Lebron James in the history of humanity. Someone that big, and that fast, with that level of coordination and finesse.

Originally posted by crzy:
Lebron is on another level than Kobe Bryant. He has been for years now. There has never been a physical specimen like Lebron James in the history of humanity. Someone that big, and that fast, with that level of coordination and finesse.

This. It isn't a competition. Kobe did as much as he could with his physical tools. LeBron just has a major advantage over him.

Kobe only has 1 title, btw. Saying he has 4 is like saying Robery Horry has 7 so he is better than Jordan. I think you need to be the best player on the team in order to claim the title as yours in these types of arguments.

Originally posted by 9erReign:

Originally posted by crzy:
Lebron is on another level than Kobe Bryant. He has been for years now. There has never been a physical specimen like Lebron James in the history of humanity. Someone that big, and that fast, with that level of coordination and finesse.

This. It isn't a competition. Kobe did as much as he could with his physical tools. LeBron just has a major advantage over him.

Kobe only has 1 title, btw. Saying he has 4 is like saying Robery Horry has 7 so he is better than Jordan. I think you need to be the best player on the team in order to claim the title as yours in these types of arguments.

I agree with this.

In player A vs player B arguments, I only consider championships where you are the BEST player on your team and the MAIN REASON why you won the championships.

Shaq was the best player on the Lakers from 2000-2003, period. Kobe was the sidekick.

Otherwise I can argue that Andrew Bynum is better than Dwight Howard because Bynum has a ring and Dwight doesn't.

[ Edited by crzy on Jan 22, 2010 at 16:57:27 ]

Originally posted by crzy:
Lebron is on another level than Kobe Bryant. He has been for years now. There has never been a physical specimen like Lebron James in the history of humanity. Someone that big, and that fast, with that level of coordination and finesse.

No, there has never been a physical specimen like LeBron James.

And no, LeBron hasn't been on another level than Kobe Bryant for years now. The only people who think this way are people who absolutely loathe Kobe, and have been clinging to ANYONE else they could and claiming that they were superior. Grant Hill. Tracy McGrady. Dwyane Wade. Even Chris Paul. It's been going on for years.

When NBA talent evaluators and NBA players are asked who the best player in the game is, Kobe is the person that's chosen. These aren't homers, and not people who hate Kobe either. No horse in the race.

You know I respect your opinion about basketball, but sometimes I wonder about your understanding of the floor game. LeBron's ball dominance has rendered the rest of his team to be pick setters and spot up jump shooters for years now, which is why they've lost virtually every playoff series against a true contender since he's been there. The only team that doesn't fit this description is the 2007 Pistons.

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by crzy:
Lebron is on another level than Kobe Bryant. He has been for years now. There has never been a physical specimen like Lebron James in the history of humanity. Someone that big, and that fast, with that level of coordination and finesse.

No, there has never been a physical specimen like LeBron James.

And no, LeBron hasn't been on another level than Kobe Bryant for years now. The only people who think this way are people who absolutely loathe Kobe, and have been clinging to ANYONE else they could and claiming that they were superior. Grant Hill. Tracy McGrady. Dwyane Wade. Even Chris Paul. It's been going on for years.

When NBA talent evaluators and NBA players are asked who the best player in the game is, Kobe is the person that's chosen. These aren't homers, and not people who hate Kobe either. No horse in the race.

You know I respect your opinion about basketball, but sometimes I wonder about your understanding of the floor game. LeBron's ball dominance has rendered the rest of his team to be pick setters and spot up jump shooters for years now, which is why they've lost virtually every playoff series against a true contender since he's been there. The only team that doesn't fit this description is the 2007 Pistons.

Lebron's USG% is about the same as Kobe's USG% this year.

And did you criticize Kobe for his ball dominance in 2005-2006? Kobe in 2005-2006 had a USG% of 38.7%, which means he had the ball in his hands more than Lebron did in any single season and even had the ball in his hands more than Jordan did before Scottie Pippen.

Not to mention, Lebron's ball dominance is a result of his supporting cast. How many players on the Cavs can create their own offense?

[ Edited by crzy on Jan 22, 2010 at 20:27:04 ]

Originally posted by crzy:
Lebron's USG% is about the same as Kobe's USG% this year.

And did you criticize Kobe for his ball dominance in 2005-2006? Kobe in 2005-2006 had a USG% of 38.7%, which means he had the ball in his hands more than Lebron did in any single season and even had the ball in his hands more than Jordan did before Scottie Pippen.

Not to mention, Lebron's ball dominance is a result of his supporting cast. How many players on the Cavs can create their own offense?

No, and you know why? Because Kobe lead an offense of Odom, Smush Parker, Kwame Brown, and Luke Walton into being the 8th most efficient offense in the league. USG% does not measure what I'm talking about, as it's just a calculation involving FGA, FTA, assists, and turnovers. Players like LeBron, Kobe, and Wade SHOULD have high usage rates, because they're the finishers on a play, whether it's calling their own number, or someone else's.

I'm talking about what goes on before the end of a play happens. Kobe gets his after a series of passes, cuts, and player movement that create opportunities for others. He operates within a sequence, whereas LeBron IS the sequence. And his teammates aren't allowed the same opportunities as a result. Since Shaq left, the Lakers have been a Top 8 offense (points per 100 poss.) every single year, despite having people like Smush Parker, Kwame Brown, & Luke Walton all starting a the same time.

Just look at players with and without LeBron or Kobe. Has any supporting player's career blossomed alongside LeBron? Because on the Lakers, guys like Pau Gasol go from being good big men to being considered one of the best in the game. Odom suddenly has the 4 most efficient years of his career. Fisher, who's been crap for several other teams, comes back, and has the most efficient season of his career. Guys like Smush Parker & Shannon Brown (former Cav 1st round pick) go from the end of benches to significant roles. I could name 5 other guys that have played significant time elsewhere, but had their best seasons in LA.

Cleveland does have other players who can create their own offense. Shaq was an all-star just last year, and now he's barely relevant. Goes from shooting a career high from the field (60.9%) last year, to a career low this year. (52.9%) Mo Williams was able to create his own offense in Milwaukee, but as soon as he moved to Cleveland, he ended up shooting almost 2 three pointers more per game, as his assists dropped by 2 per game.

[ Edited by LA9erFan on Jan 22, 2010 at 21:07:35 ]