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Official 2009-2010 WORLD CHAMPION LA Lakers Thread

Originally posted by LA9erFan:
I was discussing Kobe's legacy with some Celtic fans on celticblog.com, (which is an excellent site) and it really became clear to me that Kobe is the most under-appreciated NBA star of all time.

They say "he Shaq & then Pau", or "he's only been the best player on two of these teams." However...

Magic - Was the best player on only 3 of the title teams, played w/one of the best centers ever, and two of his teammates were Top 50. Plus he had an excellent role players and a bench.

Bird - 3 titles, had two other Top 50 players next to him, and other great role players like DJ, Maxwell, Ainge, etc.

Jordan - Had one of the Top 50 of all time, the greatest rebounder ever for 3 of them, and great role players/bench all around him.

Who's Kobe's Top 50 player next to him? How good is our bench? Considering that Bynum's been SEVERELY limited the last 2 years, how good is the talent around Kobe compared to the talent that those guys had?

Good points, Pete.

You're gonna' hate this but... to me, that proves how important image is, in relation to the love/respect/adoration/appreciation a player's legacy receives. Right or wrong, perception IS reality. As much as you know I hate the lakers, I loved watching Magic. He was a joy to learn from, as far as play and passion and personality. (I even pulled for 80s LA over Boston because of him)

Bird- His perception was that of a cold-blooded assassin, Clint Eastwood-style, IMO. And as much as he hurt his opponents, you knew he probably do exactly what you're most afraid of him doing to you- ripping your heart out and showing it to you.

MJ- Everyone dreams of flying. MJ realized those dreams and we slowed them down and froze them in time down for some sweet-ass images. He had the tongue, and the smile, and everyone wanted to be like Mike. Yes, he was an a-hole who punched teammates, but he did that when the world wasn't looking- behind closed doors. All we heard were stories, and that didn't compromise him in any way; it added to the intrigue.

Kobe- Capable of doing darn near everything mentioned above BUT he frickin' broke Man Law when he got busted. He snitched. He's a rat. One of the most talented NBA players, but sealed his fate by telling cops, when the interrogation lamp was in his pupils, another mans' business. It's his reality, and so shall that perception remain. It's not just what you do that counts, it's how you do it. And he did it wrong, and that's his "legacy"- an unlikable snitch who wins more often than not. Rank him how you will, but know others are doing the same.


By all means, MBC.

Kobe + legit #2 option = Championship contender.

Pau's good and all, but when he got to the Lakers he was a 27 year old, one-time all-star that had never led his team to a playoff win, and never in the discussion amongst the best at his position. Now he's "the best offensive big man in the game". Amazing how that happened.

Kobe's just held to this ridiculous standard that no one else has ever been held to. Could you imagine if Kobe retired, the Lakers replaced him in the starting lineup with Quinton Ross, and the rest of the Lakers went on to win 55 games the next year? Because that's exactly what happened when MJ retired.

It's all good though, cuz their arguments are gonna become more and more ridiculous as time goes by. Kobe ain't done winning titles.
Paul, you are absolutely on the money with that. It isn't just Colorado though. It's his whole persona. Most of these guys aren't nice guys at all, and have done some terrible things, but were much better in front of a camera. Even Bird.

I have no problem if other people don't like Kobe, but that spills over into how they view him as a basketball player. They're separate things. It's gonna happen anyway, like you said, but it doesn't make them valid points.

You know what I just realized? Kobe is a modern day Kareem.
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Paul, you are absolutely on the money with that. It isn't just Colorado though. It's his whole persona. Most of these guys aren't nice guys at all, and have done some terrible things, but were much better in front of a camera. Even Bird.

I have no problem if other people don't like Kobe, but that spills over into how they view him as a basketball player. They're separate things. It's gonna happen anyway, like you said, but it doesn't make them valid points.

You know what I just realized? Kobe is a modern day Kareem.

I recognize kobe the player, just like I recognize Emmitt Smith. ES might be the all time leading rusher, but in no way is the best RB. knowhatimean? (But Emmitt has a character that K-Bean doesn't. )

Anyway, Kareem: the difference is he had a distrust and dislike for certain aspects of society that he saw/lived through/ experienced, both in the 60's and in Milwaukee, and those revolved around race and bigotry, IMO. I think "Cap" had every right not to trust Whitey, and to take a step back from many aspects that people view as a negative. I truly look at Cap as more than a basketball player. He is cultural icon, and an intellectual who stood for much more than a sport, and when he speaks I listen to the wisdom of his every word. Meanwhile, Kobe grins and I want to fking puke. He opens his mouth and I want to smash my tv.
Excerpts from the "Ron Artest should be the new Dos Equis Man" thread on LG...

-He's a lover, not a fighter, but he's also a fighter, so don't get any ideas.

-The police often question him, just because they find him interesting.

-He once had a sane moment, just to see how it feels.

-All stars ram their chin into his elbow just so that they could experience their one brush with greatness.

-He hears his coach talking to him even when his coach isn't talking.

-He once told a reporter to say "Queensbridge"...and he did.



And my personal favorite............







-Kobe Bryant passes him the ball.

He is...the most interesting Laker in the world.

Stay crazy, my friends.

[ Edited by LA9erFan on Jun 19, 2010 at 09:45:04 ]
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Excerpts from the "Ron Artest should be the new Dos Equis Man" thread on LG...


-The police often question him, just because they find him interesting.

-He once had a sane moment, just to see how it feels.

-He hears his coach talking to him even when his coach isn't talking.



The angle I'm working with the Kareem/Kobe comparison is the "I find him to be a douche as a person, so I'm not gonna give him his just due on the court." Rightly or wrongly, Kareem was not well liked by the media or the general public. He's a fascinating and brilliant guy, and all of what you say is true, but his legacy took a hit because of that. He's a 6 time MVP, 6 time NBA champion, and 19 time all-star...but for some reason he isn't often in the discussion for GOAT, even though his resume warrants it. I think he's much more deserving of that title than Magic, but Magic's name usually comes up before his does. I think that's because of their personalities.
double post

[ Edited by LA9erFan on Jun 19, 2010 at 09:56:38 ]
  • bricklusnar
  • Info N/A
Ron Artest..the real MVP of the finals? I forgot about this little tidbit. The Celtics could have very well put this series at TD Garden had Ray Allen been able to hit a few more shots hehe.

After hitting a Finals-record eight threes in Boston's Game 2 win at Los Angeles, Allen was kneed in the thigh by Artest in the opening minutes of Game 3. His thigh was badly swollen and bruised and he was held out of practice for all but 10 minutes for Games 4 and 5. Over the final five games, he was 4-of-28 from the three-point line, and 3-of-14 from the field overall in Game 7, while missing several open shots.

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/ian_thomsen/06/17/countdown.lakers.celtics/index.html#ixzz0rJq8nIt0
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
The angle I'm working with the Kareem/Kobe comparison is the "I find him to be a douche as a person, so I'm not gonna give him his just due on the court." Rightly or wrongly, Kareem was not well liked by the media or the general public. He's a fascinating and brilliant guy, and all of what you say is true, but his legacy took a hit because of that. He's a 6 time MVP, 6 time NBA champion, and 19 time all-star...but for some reason he isn't often in the discussion for GOAT, even though his resume warrants it. I think he's much more deserving of that title than Magic, but Magic's name usually comes up before his does. I think that's because of their personalities.

I get that. And my response was for the people that have the nerve to think he's a douche. I don't get it. They didn't walk in his heavy shoes. And I have no problem ranking hm above Magic, either in laker-dom. Making Kobe 3rd, at best (only because I never saw The Logo play.)

BTW, my favorite Kareem moment: When he took the mic in Oakland before his last game there and spoke to the crowd and thanked everyone for making it a great place to compete. One of the most touching sporting moments in my life. I'd pay to see that speech again. The Warrior franchise gave him a sail boat and rolled it onto the court.
(I'm not quoting you just because this browser can't do it, sorry...)

I vividly remember that year, and Kareem's farewell tour. One of the cooler things the NBA ever did. That same thing happened in every arena that year.

I have two good Kareem stories...

When I was 3 years old, the Laker jet had some issues, and they had to take a commercial flight. My mom and I were on that same flight. I remembered Kareem being completely folded over himself in a chair that was not built for a man his size, and I was showing him my toy airplane. Apparently, I called him "Roger" because that's what I thought his name was. This is my first memory.

The other one happened at a salsa club w/my dad. He went to a rival HS in New York at the same time Kareem did, and they because acquaintances when my dad worked for the Lakers. Fast forward to '06 or so, and Kareem's at this show. He kept looking over at my dad, and finally he walked over and said, "Do I know you from somewhere"? 20 later, he remembered my dad. Blew my mind.
Originally posted by LA9erFan:


When I was 3 years old, the Laker jet had some issues, and they had to take a commercial flight. My mom and I were on that same flight. I remembered Kareem being completely folded over himself in a chair that was not built for a man his size, and I was showing him my toy airplane. Apparently, I called him "Roger" because that's what I thought his name was. This is my first memory.


Way cool.

Originally posted by LA9erFan:


The other one happened at a salsa club w/my dad. He went to a rival HS in New York at the same time Kareem did, and they because acquaintances when my dad worked for the Lakers. Fast forward to '06 or so, and Kareem's at this show. He kept looking over at my dad, and finally he walked over and said, "Do I know you from somewhere"? 20 later, he remembered my dad. Blew my mind.

Way fking DOPE!
Originally posted by GameOver:

Sounds like every other due out there talking/rapping over a beat.






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