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2009 Golden State Warriors Off-Season Thread

  • crzy
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 39,280
Originally posted by angelv05:
Originally posted by FredFlintstone:
i want nelson gone period. then hire the celtics assistant coach.

Why one of their assistants? The Celtics were good because they had KG, Pierce, and Allen. Doc Rivers is overrated.

Tom Thibodeau is a very good coach.
  • crzy
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 39,280
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by crzy:
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Maggette, Wright, & cash for Camby?

Clippers won't take back Maggette. Mike Dunleavy HATES Corey Maggette.

But I'd do that trade without blinking.

I remember there being rumors this year of a Baron/Mags deal and that the Clippers wanted Mags back.

Dunleavy just hates Baron Davis more than he hates Maggette.

Who couldn't have seen that one coming lol.

Dunleavy is all about disciplined basketball, Baron is about playing loose and jacking up shots whenever he feels like it. He quit on the Clippers in November.

Plus, Baron didn't get along with his son.
Here's a great tidbit from a poster from GSOM on the end of the season bbq the Dubs had for season ticket holders (warning, its long, but its a good read...I bolded the parts I found interesting)

Quote:
Tonight I and some other season ticket holders that had some “concerns” about this year, the team and the coaching got to meet Robert Rowell before the Timberwolves game and he spent a good ¾ of an hour answering some pretty frank questions.

First and foremost I have to say, he didn’t dodge one question, was extremely honest and took genuine interest in the points raised. I will give you some of the content, some of which many of you are going to be quite surprised at.

RR made it very clear he does not read newspapers or blogs as more often than not, people create complete fiction just to try and grab some headlines. I don’t think anyone in the room had any doubt who he was aiming this at, possibly a certain person writing for the Mercury News.

The first main topic of conversation was Baron Davis’s departure and the events that followed thereafter and fans were not happy at some of the signings and the fact that Baron was allowed to go. RR made it very clear that what was published in the newspapers was complete fabrication. He said Baron was never offered just a 3 year contract. He was in fact offered a 5 year contract that could have paid Baron a total based on performance of $75m USD. However the organisation had concern about his ability to see out a season and so the contract was broken into 3 parts. It was a guaranteed contract for 3 years with a certain number of games having to have been played in years 2 and 3 in order to trigger year 4, likewise performance in years 3 and 4 to trigger year 5. Had Baron been prepared to commit to that deal, he would have made $75m USD. He was also offered another option to opt in to his exisiting agreement that would have been worth an extra $17m USD. However HE chose to turn that down and go for a straight non-performance related deal with the Clipps, his choice. Personally I found that very interesting and I can understand why the organization was concerned about his fitness and it seems....so did Baron, which is why he went for the guaranteed lesser amount offered by the Clipps!

He went on to discuss other players that were let go. Again very honest and he said "the biggest regret he has on players that have left is the loss of J-Rich, in his personal opinion that deal should not have been done." This obviously led on to question as to “who” then is picking the “talent” as he calls it. He stated that there is a team that seeks talent and a team that coaches that talent and a team that manages the club. He explained that Don Nelson’s role is the coaching and while he is a very big fan of Nellies and his style of play, he felt some comments that were made to the press this year should have stayed within house; for example the Randolph discussions and the Crawford statement.

RR admits he likes Crawford, but at the moment it is clear a Crawford Ellis backcourt does not work and leaks defensive points like a sieve. However he made it very clear that Nellie had no business discussing the Crawford options to the media or be quite so vocal about discussions he had with Randolph. He did however state very clearly that Randolph was actually getting continually “outplayed” in every practice by Rob Kurz at the start of the year and he said something like, “Kurz...Rob Kurz....can you believe that, he should never have been outplayed by Rob, he simply was not working hard enough in practice and needed a kick in the butt”. He went on to describe that Nellie was right to treat him the way he did, however management did like what they saw in Randolph and Morrow and pushed a little to see those two players more on court. He believes both have great potential for this league and most importantly this organisation. It was clear to me that he was saying loud and clear that Randolph and Morrow are both key figures for the Warriors future that won’t be going anywhere.

This lead on to what changes are going to be made and whose fault were some of these bad player choices? He said...”well are you happy with 28 wins?” He mentioned that first and foremost he is a Golden State Warriors Fan and 28 wins simply is not good enough, but then no one expected the star player to go fall off a moped having signed a very nice contract and then lie to the organisation about the injury thereafter. He said, “How could we have seen that coming as an incident?” He was then pushed further on the Monta issue and whether the contract will be voided. He said “absolutely not, it’s in the past, the contract is not going to be voided and anyone who suggests otherwise is simply talking hot air, it’s NEVER going to happen, it was an extremely unfortunate event, but it is in the past, over.” He was then asked if changes are going to be made where will they be and is Monta the first choice for PG?

RR stated that he does not think that anyone has seen Monta play as a true PG yet, with a fully healthy team behind him. He believes that given the right players around him, he can actually do a good job at the PG. My interpretation of that is that Crawford might be an option to switch with Ellis on court i.e. off the bench and Morrow as the SG? Or possibly someone else in the SG position maybe Jackson? However, I wouldn’t be surprised if we made a move over the summer for another Vet that might take the place of Crawford and that could have a better playing style to complement Ellis and help develop his PG skills and no I don’t think that will be BD!! Maybe Kidd?

Questions were then asked of Jackson. He went on to describe that for all Jacks mistakes and moments when he is cold, he is one of the hardest working members on the team for Defence and this is one of the primary reasons why Nellie keeps him in the game so much as there just is not enough effort being made on D in other areas. He also pointed out that when jackson is on form he is an exciting player to watch and is a very dangerous weapon against teams when on fire.

He also went on to state that the “Centre” position is not even open for discussion, he believes it is the strongest it has been for decades and that Andris is VERY much part of this teams future. I heard his tone and saw the body language and he is either a very good poker player or he is genuinely keeping Biedrins in this club, no matter what. I got the impression that he is possibly a bigger fan of AB to stay at the club than anyone even more so than Ellis, Morrow and Randolph. He see's Andris "without doubt as a future All-Star", in his words. He stated that he wants to see the young guys develop more and Nelson will get this job done with them. He stated that even though the young guys who have been playing well together in the last few games, "they" as a unit are no way good enough or at the level expected by the organisation for this club to have opportunity to fight for playoff positions. So he said.... ”Yes we will have to make some changes”.

The way he was discussing the team, I think he was making it clear that Biedrins , Morrow, Randolph, (I think) Ellis, Turiaf, are all key pieces for this organisation next year most likely along with Jackson and probably Buike. Nobody else was really mentioned and therefore my read of that is that no one else’s position on the team is safe.

He said he understands that the fans have been unhappy with the situation this year but he also stated that the club felt this even more and the injuries have been like no other year. I have to say I was impressed with his responses and the manner in which he gave them as I truly believe his responses were genuine and he is very keen to make certain changes in the off season by whatever means to make this club a real contender in the West. Read into that what you will?

The conversation went on to Chris Mullin the relationship with coaching staff and the organisation at large. He mentioned the fact that he likes Chris Mullin a great deal and that it was him that brought CM back to the organisation and again he highlighted that a great deal of the “Internal War” that is supposedly going on, is again fabricated Horse crap by certain journalists. He stated that CM’s contract was not extended to simply see how some of the latest draft picks develop, following on from some not so good past performances. He made it very clear that the organisation is less than happy with a number of the recent draft picks (Like POB) that have simply been bad and there were a number of contracts made in the past that were also truly bad.

But he stated that they recognised that and the organisation has done everything in their power to rectify those past mistakes. He stated that there is the coaching staff, their focus is purely geared to the development of the players they are given. There is the “Talent” team whose job it is to go find the players and then the Management who have to justify the choices and have input where required if it is clear that certain choices are not delivering enough to the team, i.e the team is not winning and therefore may need to go.

I followed on from this with a question then about the current situation and rather than have to have injured players get suited up to simply make 8 players, could they not go and get a player like Hendrix who knows a lot of the plays to help fill a gap on a 10 day contract? He said there was no reason at all why they couldn't , but the coaching staff didn’t want to and preferred to run with the guys they have for the last few games.

The discussion then changed tack slightly and went on to season tickets, pricing, etc and that as a season ticket holder, it’s hard to see people coming in and sitting in considerably better seats AND having paid less than many season ticket holders for their seats further back.

He said... ”First thing I will say is, if you were in Club 200 this year YOU WERE SCREWED! this year you were completely screwed!” I kid you not, those were his exact words. He said, “unfortunately with the economy the way it went, they simply did not foresee the speed at which the economy was going to fail just as they could not foresee someone falling off a moped (which I thought was quite funny that he raised that again). But he said “as the President of a business, I have to make decisions that try to generate as much revenue as possible due to the ever increasing Salary base among other things that must be met, that means if seats are empty, we have to offer promotions to sell some of those seats, however that meant that certain season ticket holders got a rough deal”. He did go on to state that he believes the lower bowl is extremely good value for money versus other arenas and he will stand by that as they have compared pricing of the lower bowl to other arenas.

I then jumped in with follow up question as to how and why Club 200 season ticket holders were treated so poorly? I think I said something along the lines of “As you have said this is about running a business, you’re doing it, I’m doing it, so I understand that no one could have foreseen the crash in the economy or certain injuries however, it’s the reaction thereafter that I cannot understand.” I continued, “To me it is not rocket science to know that your very bread and butter income, comes from Season Ticket holders and as one of those Club 200 STH’s, we have received ZERO in the way of proper customer care, which means that if you have unhappy STH’s, they won’t renew and if so, you end up having to spend more money on marketing/advertising to replace those STH’s with new ones, when you could probably spend a great deal less to make those STH’s feel valued and especially when they see seats being sold for $8! Is it really that hard for someone to come up with the idea of maybe offering STH’s the chance to come to practices to meet the players, hold more events at the arena to meet the staff, have STH opportunities to meet the players after a game rather than just kids? Maybe offering free parking vouchers, free beer/food vouchers, huge discounts in the store....I said the list is truly endless at what could have been done and nothing was done, which in my personal opinion and experience in the field of sales and marketing was dire and beyond a joke. Add to that the fact that people have to wait sometimes a whole quarter to get a Burger and ‘my what pricey burgers’ they are too! Could it possibly be useful to have soft drinks, Popcorn, Pretzels and peanuts, cold items on carts, thus saving the stands for Beer and hot food? This would surely help reduce the lines?, In short I feel there was a definite DROP in customer care this year as compared to last year, which considering the price hikes, is why you have many people not wanting to renew tickets”.

His answer was a simple as this “ I have no answer for you, all your points are valid and very much taken on board, what I can tell you is that I have to kick the backsides of those guys at the back of the room and there will be changes for next year. You have my apologies we simply did not do a good enough job this year for Club 200 season ticket holders but that will change”.


LINK

I still don't trust RR, he answered the questions, but how can we know he was slanting it to make people think of him in a positive light? There are so many versions of the Baron negotiations, I don't know who to believe.
Originally posted by ritchie:
I still don't trust RR, he answered the questions, but how can we know he was slanting it to make people think of him in a positive light? There are so many versions of the Baron negotiations, I don't know who to believe.

You know what's funny. I hate RR just as much as anyone else, but would anyone really be surprised that BD said no to a contract that was based on him playing a certain amount of games? It'd be pretty funny if that was what BD was truly offered and we didn't hear about it until a f**king year later. Our media sucks.
As long as we get rid of Don Nelson and keep randolph i will be pretty happy. I don't want to trade Ellis or Biedrins but if we get a good deal involving any of them then i don't mind the trade. If there is a trade involving maggette or jackson it is likely wright and belinelli that are going to be included.
Originally posted by Method:
Originally posted by ritchie:
I still don't trust RR, he answered the questions, but how can we know he was slanting it to make people think of him in a positive light? There are so many versions of the Baron negotiations, I don't know who to believe.

You know what's funny. I hate RR just as much as anyone else, but would anyone really be surprised that BD said no to a contract that was based on him playing a certain amount of games? It'd be pretty funny if that was what BD was truly offered and we didn't hear about it until a f**king year later. Our media sucks.

If its the truth, it wouldn't be a surprise BD would say no to that. He probably knows he can't stay healthy and wouldn't see alot of that money. But I've heard so many varying stories on this, so I won't even try to decipher it.

And yes, our media friggin sucks. Only Kawakami and Lauridsen write anything of consequence, and even that Kawakami just loves starting fires and Lauridsen ain't even a journalist, but a Lawyer with a blog. Good writer though.
Crawford - PG
Watson - PG
Ellis - SG
Marco - SG
Morrow - SG
Jackson - SF
Maggs - SF
Bazooka - SF
Wright - PF
Randolph - PF
Biedrins - C
Turiaf - C
Davidson - PF
Kurz - PF

Looking at those 14, Imma make them 12 by taking Kurz and Davidson out. I still like this team very much if we can have a healthy roster for most of the season. IF Randolph can continue to play next season the way he closed this season, he could eliminate our void at that PF position, which after PG is our biggest need.

In order for us to get better, either Crawford or Maggs gotta go. Ideally I'd like them both gone, but that's not a realistic possibility. It seems like JC is the one who'll probably be out, and if I had to choose one I'd choose him gone over Maggs. As selfish as the b*****d is, his 18-20ppg off the bench can't hurt that bad, can they?

Obviously, our only pick in the draft should be a PG, I'm hoping for Evans, but either way (unless the rook lights it out in camp and preseason) I'd like to see this lineup:

PG - Marco
SG - Monta
SF - Jax
PF - Randolph
C - Biedrins

Simply because I think Marco can play the point and can match-up with the bigger guards on the defensive end, easing Monta off those match-ups. Ellis still gotta show that he can play good enough D on a PG though I love the 4&5 combo on this lineup because Randolph compliments Beans on the defensive end, not that Beans is all of that, but I've seen 2 or straight years of him being the only presence in the middle, and therefore he looks worse than he actually is: he's not that bad.

My immediate backups would be:

PG - Rook
SG - Morrow
SF - Maggs/Bazooka (*)
PF - Wright
C - Turiaf

I'm not talking about playing these 5 at the same time (maybe a little? ) but I'd be confident on offense with any of them on the floor for this team. The liability here becomes perimeter D Hopefully the Rook and Morrow can show some defensive skills. I won't even try putting hope on either of the SF's I've listed. BTW, there's an * for a reason. Either one of them has got to go this offseason. We cannot afford to have 2 similar kinds of players as backups at the SF spot when either one of them could be starting in alot of teams. Because I expect JC to be moved and Maggs to stay, I say we trade Bazooka, matter of fact: we should package him and JC together and get something semi-good in return, say, a banger to plug into the rotation at the 4&5 spots, and a 2nd rounder in this year's draft

What about CJ? I'm sorry but unless he shows me he can play D, I don't care for him on this team. Yes he proved me he belongs in the NBA as far as his offensive game goes, but we have plenty of offense already, we won't be missing his 9.5ppg. Honestly I wouldn't mind keeping him if I wasn't so scared of Nelson giving him minutes over our Rook PG, that'd me and the rest of you guys off

So, to recap

PG: Marco / 1st-pick
SG: Monta / Morrow
SF: Jax / Maggs or Bazooka (*)
PF: Randolph / Wright / 2nd-pick
C: Biedrins / Turiaf / 2nd-pick

(*) - either one must be traded, preferably in a package deal along with Crawford

If Marco doesn't pan out at PG, hopefully our Rook can step into the starting lineup and give us decent numbers AND defense.

This is my outlook for next season, as of right now
There's a pretty heated discussion regarding Anthony Randolph vs. Michael Beasley. Obviously I lean towards AR but being a homer and all, my two cents don't amount to much. Same can be said for some of these angry Heat fans. lol Still, I'm just happy this is even a serious discussion. We got a steal IMO.

RealGM
Originally posted by joesfumanchu:
There's a pretty heated discussion regarding Anthony Randolph vs. Michael Beasley. Obviously I lean towards AR but being a homer and all, my two cents don't amount to much. Same can be said for some of these angry Heat fans. lol Still, I'm just happy this is even a serious discussion. We got a steal IMO.

RealGM

As someone who doesn't have a bias either way, I'll take Randolph.
randolph a power forward?
Originally posted by ads_2006:
randolph a power forward?

He's wiry strong. People just like to look at his weight, which is about 210 now, and say he can't play the 4. But he can. And give him a couple years to fill out that 6'10" frame, he'll be special.
  • crzy
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 39,280
Originally posted by joesfumanchu:
There's a pretty heated discussion regarding Anthony Randolph vs. Michael Beasley. Obviously I lean towards AR but being a homer and all, my two cents don't amount to much. Same can be said for some of these angry Heat fans. lol Still, I'm just happy this is even a serious discussion. We got a steal IMO.

RealGM

I've been following that thread since it started.

Anthony Randolph will be a much better player than Michael Beasley.

The only thing Beasley can do better is score. He'll probably be a 20 point scorer, but he's still going to be a mediocre rebounder and a mediocre defender.


And yes, Randolph is a power forward. He's already put on 20 pounds this season. He'll probably play at 230 to 240 for his career.
Originally posted by crzy:
Originally posted by angelv05:
Originally posted by FredFlintstone:
i want nelson gone period. then hire the celtics assistant coach.

Why one of their assistants? The Celtics were good because they had KG, Pierce, and Allen. Doc Rivers is overrated.

Tom Thibodeau is a very good coach.

+1


found on the main forum (no, really). lol

looks pretty good imo, text a little big but i like it a lot

http://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/thread.php?num=118670&start=1200
Damn I may even buy one of those. Lot better then most jerseys in the league.
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