Solution(s) to losing Crabs

Originally posted by susweel:
i was wrong

I'd still PM you.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by DRUSTOPO:
I would love to see us use James in a Sproles type of role, but I think that's a pipe dream based on the offense we run.

What surprises me most about the 9ers offense is that we never run screen plays, ever! With our line being so athletic, you would figure one or two here and there would certain slow down the pass rush a little. Never see us do it though, we hardly ever throw it to the backs period.

Gore - 28
Miller - 12
Hunter - 9
James - 3

Not sure why that's the case since Gore is a great pass catcher. Plus getting Hunter and James in space with the ball could both be deadly weapons. Looking back on the 09 and 10 seasons at Stanford though, neither Gerhart (11) or Taylor (28) caught many balls.

Unless there is a great shift in offensive philosophy, I do not think we can expect our backs to be major contributors in the pass game. The more likely scenario if Patton, Jenkins or Lockette do not emerge as a reliable deep threat opposite Boldin ( I have SUPREME confidence one will emerge, but lets talk worst case ), that we will see a large % increase in a Stanford style, 3 TE / 1 WR formation. VD would play the part of the #1 option ( Fleener ), McDonald would play the part of the Red Zone threat ( Ertz ) and Celek would be the blocking TE that catches some passes ( Reuland ). We would run a ton out of this formation, but would still be a threat with play action.

In my humble opinion though, I think AJ or Lockette emerges on the outside, Patton or Williams emerges in the slot and Boldin keeps on being the #1 option like he was in Baltimore all last year, how'd that end up for them??? Throw in VD and McDonald dominating the hashes and our passing attack will collectively put up better numbers than last year..helps my argument to have an improving Kaep firing rockets for 16 games.

Oh and then we get Manningham back at the end of the year and possibly Crabs for the playoffs.

Cant wait to see the young guys mix it up in camp. The reports have been great so far!

http://www.csnbayarea.com/blog/matt-maiocco/young-receivers-seek-counsel-asomugha-boldin

Absolutely spot on! Well said/great post...totally agree.

I subscribe to this opinion as well and you forgot to mention Cam Morrah, who IF healthy had some success as a receiving TE.

The real test will be when the pads come on and which of these raw young receivers can get off the jam from press coverage.
40 Times of our WR options: (not suggesting its the only thing that matters, its just quantifiable)
-Lockette 4.34
-AJ 4.37 (supposed clocked as low as 4.31 by the niners)
-Williams 4.43
-Moore 4.49
-Patton 4.53
-Hall 4.56
-Manningham 4.59

So really if AJ or Lockette can learn how to beat a Jam and catch the ball then this offense can be wide open. But if they get shut down, then the offense could turn into a heavy TE small quick WR offense similar to New England... they have no viable outside receivers and molded their offense to attack the middle of the field rather than the sidelines.

Originally posted by Wodwo:

Originally posted by susweel:
i was wrong

I'd still PM you.

thank you sir

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by Wodwo:

Originally posted by susweel:
i was wrong

I'd still PM you.

thank you sir

Originally posted by Wodwo:

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by Wodwo:

Originally posted by susweel:

i was wrong

I'd still PM you.

thank you sir

Shame about the face

Originally posted by English:
Shame about the face

I'd totally eat that face.

Originally posted by Wodwo:

Originally posted by DRUSTOPO:
Sulfuric acid is a pretty dope solution

Guaranteed to lose you some Crabs.

LOL..indeed

Originally posted by 5280High:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by DRUSTOPO:
I would love to see us use James in a Sproles type of role, but I think that's a pipe dream based on the offense we run.

What surprises me most about the 9ers offense is that we never run screen plays, ever! With our line being so athletic, you would figure one or two here and there would certain slow down the pass rush a little. Never see us do it though, we hardly ever throw it to the backs period.

Gore - 28
Miller - 12
Hunter - 9
James - 3

Not sure why that's the case since Gore is a great pass catcher. Plus getting Hunter and James in space with the ball could both be deadly weapons. Looking back on the 09 and 10 seasons at Stanford though, neither Gerhart (11) or Taylor (28) caught many balls.

Unless there is a great shift in offensive philosophy, I do not think we can expect our backs to be major contributors in the pass game. The more likely scenario if Patton, Jenkins or Lockette do not emerge as a reliable deep threat opposite Boldin ( I have SUPREME confidence one will emerge, but lets talk worst case ), that we will see a large % increase in a Stanford style, 3 TE / 1 WR formation. VD would play the part of the #1 option ( Fleener ), McDonald would play the part of the Red Zone threat ( Ertz ) and Celek would be the blocking TE that catches some passes ( Reuland ). We would run a ton out of this formation, but would still be a threat with play action.

In my humble opinion though, I think AJ or Lockette emerges on the outside, Patton or Williams emerges in the slot and Boldin keeps on being the #1 option like he was in Baltimore all last year, how'd that end up for them??? Throw in VD and McDonald dominating the hashes and our passing attack will collectively put up better numbers than last year..helps my argument to have an improving Kaep firing rockets for 16 games.

Oh and then we get Manningham back at the end of the year and possibly Crabs for the playoffs.

Cant wait to see the young guys mix it up in camp. The reports have been great so far!

http://www.csnbayarea.com/blog/matt-maiocco/young-receivers-seek-counsel-asomugha-boldin

Absolutely spot on! Well said/great post...totally agree.

I subscribe to this opinion as well and you forgot to mention Cam Morrah, who IF healthy had some success as a receiving TE.

The real test will be when the pads come on and which of these raw young receivers can get off the jam from press coverage.
40 Times of our WR options: (not suggesting its the only thing that matters, its just quantifiable)
-Lockette 4.34
-AJ 4.37 (supposed clocked as low as 4.31 by the niners)
-Williams 4.43
-Moore 4.49
-Patton 4.53
-Hall 4.56
-Manningham 4.59

So really if AJ or Lockette can learn how to beat a Jam and catch the ball then this offense can be wide open. But if they get shut down, then the offense could turn into a heavy TE small quick WR offense similar to New England... they have no viable outside receivers and molded their offense to attack the middle of the field rather than the sidelines.

As of (right now) for my 53, this is who I have: post #245 http://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/niners/171861-team-needs-updates/page17/#post245

WR (5): X = A.J. Jenkins/Ricardo Lockette Y = Quinton Patton/Kyle Williams Z = Anquan Boldin; Mario Manningham & Michael Crabtree (PUP) - Marlon Moore is right on that bubble; he can be a gunner with his speed on ST, return some and even provide that deep threat as well. Chad Hall, Joe Hastings, Chuck Jacobs all gone. Manningham is brought along slowly.

TE (3): Vernon Davis, Vance McDonald and MarQueis Gray (H-back) - Cameron Morrah and Garrett Celek are gone.


Great points. I thought long and hard about Cameron Morrah as well...and Marlon Moore. I agree that if we don't develop that outside threat, we will see more 2 TE sets, more guys lining up next to CK from the Q formation and using more Boldin/McDonald from the slot...sort of a between-the-hashmarks offense. Power running mixed in with 2 dominant TE's and a chain-mover in Boldin.

Originally posted by 5280High:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by DRUSTOPO:
I would love to see us use James in a Sproles type of role, but I think that's a pipe dream based on the offense we run.

What surprises me most about the 9ers offense is that we never run screen plays, ever! With our line being so athletic, you would figure one or two here and there would certain slow down the pass rush a little. Never see us do it though, we hardly ever throw it to the backs period.

Gore - 28
Miller - 12
Hunter - 9
James - 3

Not sure why that's the case since Gore is a great pass catcher. Plus getting Hunter and James in space with the ball could both be deadly weapons. Looking back on the 09 and 10 seasons at Stanford though, neither Gerhart (11) or Taylor (28) caught many balls.

Unless there is a great shift in offensive philosophy, I do not think we can expect our backs to be major contributors in the pass game. The more likely scenario if Patton, Jenkins or Lockette do not emerge as a reliable deep threat opposite Boldin ( I have SUPREME confidence one will emerge, but lets talk worst case ), that we will see a large % increase in a Stanford style, 3 TE / 1 WR formation. VD would play the part of the #1 option ( Fleener ), McDonald would play the part of the Red Zone threat ( Ertz ) and Celek would be the blocking TE that catches some passes ( Reuland ). We would run a ton out of this formation, but would still be a threat with play action.

In my humble opinion though, I think AJ or Lockette emerges on the outside, Patton or Williams emerges in the slot and Boldin keeps on being the #1 option like he was in Baltimore all last year, how'd that end up for them??? Throw in VD and McDonald dominating the hashes and our passing attack will collectively put up better numbers than last year..helps my argument to have an improving Kaep firing rockets for 16 games.

Oh and then we get Manningham back at the end of the year and possibly Crabs for the playoffs.

Cant wait to see the young guys mix it up in camp. The reports have been great so far!

http://www.csnbayarea.com/blog/matt-maiocco/young-receivers-seek-counsel-asomugha-boldin

Absolutely spot on! Well said/great post...totally agree.

I subscribe to this opinion as well and you forgot to mention Cam Morrah, who IF healthy had some success as a receiving TE.

The real test will be when the pads come on and which of these raw young receivers can get off the jam from press coverage.
40 Times of our WR options: (not suggesting its the only thing that matters, its just quantifiable)
-Lockette 4.34
-AJ 4.37 (supposed clocked as low as 4.31 by the niners)
-Williams 4.43
-Moore 4.49
-Patton 4.53
-Hall 4.56
-Manningham 4.59

So really if AJ or Lockette can learn how to beat a Jam and catch the ball then this offense can be wide open. But if they get shut down, then the offense could turn into a heavy TE small quick WR offense similar to New England... they have no viable outside receivers and molded their offense to attack the middle of the field rather than the sidelines.

Just some food for thought since its the slow part of the offseason....Boldin's counterpart in the Raven's offense.

Torrey Smith - 6'0 - 205lbs
4.43 Forty

Torrey had 50 and 49 catches his first two years. Those do not seem like impossible numbers for the bigger faster Lockette or the same sized, but faster AJ. HOWEVER, we can't just compare height weight and speed, if that was the case..Rice, Bruce, Holt and Wayne would have sucked and Qadry Ismail would have broken every WR record. Still, with no big league experience, its all we have at the moment. Forget catches though, the harder numbers to match are the 17 yard AVG and 8 TD's. It would be nothing short of a miracle if any of them did that.

You are spot on with getting off press coverage, I think having a big CB like Nnamdi to replicate what Sherman and Browner can do will go a long way in their development. The article I posted above made me smile reading not only the Nnamdi part, but the attention to detail they are showing with the route running. Being able to hide your cards is huge for a WR. With an excellent route runner like Boldin giving tips, there should be no excuses for a lack of development this summer. All three seem like they have their heads in the game. Can't wait to see who wants it more!!!! GOTTA LOVE IT!!!

Originally posted by NCommand:
As of (right now) for my 53, this is who I have: post #245 http://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/niners/171861-team-needs-updates/page17/#post245

WR (5): X = A.J. Jenkins/Ricardo Lockette Y = Quinton Patton/Kyle Williams Z = Anquan Boldin; Mario Manningham & Michael Crabtree (PUP) - Marlon Moore is right on that bubble; he can be a gunner with his speed on ST, return some and even provide that deep threat as well. Chad Hall, Joe Hastings, Chuck Jacobs all gone. Manningham is brought along slowly.

TE (3): Vernon Davis, Vance McDonald and MarQueis Gray (H-back) - Cameron Morrah and Garrett Celek are gone.


Great points. I thought long and hard about Cameron Morrah as well...and Marlon Moore. I agree that if we don't develop that outside threat, we will see more 2 TE sets, more guys lining up next to CK from the Q formation and using more Boldin/McDonald from the slot...sort of a between-the-hashmarks offense. Power running mixed in with 2 dominant TE's and a chain-mover in Boldin.

I really like Gray as the darkhorse for the 3rd TE spot. I think he has a much higher ceiling than Celek, but he needs to be able to block. Would love to see him bust out this summer.

Im also on board with your 5 WR's for the 53. I don't think we see Manningham until after the BYE.

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by Rsrkshn:

Originally posted by Kolohe:
My solution, let Jenkins, Williams, Manningham (If healthy) and Patton battle it out. It won't matter anyway Boldin or Davis will most likely be #1 and #2 reads, Gore, Hunter and James will also be there to catch passes outta the back field. The rest will be last, unless one of them really steps up.

Not this year. This year the Niners stretch the field.
They didn't/couldn't do it last year because Kaepernick only came in unexpectedly and the team wasn't prepared for him. But this QB has the arm for it and you limit the teams possible repertoire if you don't take advantage of it. AJ Jenkins will step up, because he has to (Harbaugh's words). Lockette will be a fill in from time-to-time. Maybe the Moore kid also.
This year the Niners give opposing teams headaches: The read option, the running game, the short ball, the long ball. What a nightmare!

Yah but how often will Kaepernick stretch the field with 40-50 yard go routes as opposed to completing 15-30 yard passes?? Honestly though I think Harbaugh/Roman will take more advantage of the running game now that Hunter will be back healthy. Man, that's gonna be scary if our RB's can stay healthy (knock on wood) Gore, Hunter and James, also hoping Jewel Hampton can make the squad.

Well 30 yard passes are already getting pretty much downfield. That rarely happened before Kaepernick started.

Anyway, I'm not not necessarily disagreeing with your scenarios, except to question whether Boldin and Davis are the #1 and #2 reads. If opposing defenses see that that is your MO, they are not going to worry about the long ball and ttheir defensive backfield will be cheating up to the LOS which lessens the impact of the running game. You've got to make the downfield read first. If they're cheating or are caught flat-footed, you let it fly. Kaepernick can throw, and has demonstrated, a very effective long ball. There's no shame in taking advantage of the long ball. A few of those and pretty soon opposing DBs will have to play honest and allow more room in which your running game can operate.

I agree that the RB corp can be a scary lot if they can manage to stay healthy.

Right now ii's all off-season speculation. It'll be interesting to see which strageties are employed when they actually start playing.

Originally posted by DRUSTOPO:

Originally posted by NCommand:
As of (right now) for my 53, this is who I have: post #245 http://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/niners/171861-team-needs-updates/page17/#post245

WR (5): X = A.J. Jenkins/Ricardo Lockette Y = Quinton Patton/Kyle Williams Z = Anquan Boldin; Mario Manningham & Michael Crabtree (PUP) - Marlon Moore is right on that bubble; he can be a gunner with his speed on ST, return some and even provide that deep threat as well. Chad Hall, Joe Hastings, Chuck Jacobs all gone. Manningham is brought along slowly.

TE (3): Vernon Davis, Vance McDonald and MarQueis Gray (H-back) - Cameron Morrah and Garrett Celek are gone.


Great points. I thought long and hard about Cameron Morrah as well...and Marlon Moore. I agree that if we don't develop that outside threat, we will see more 2 TE sets, more guys lining up next to CK from the Q formation and using more Boldin/McDonald from the slot...sort of a between-the-hashmarks offense. Power running mixed in with 2 dominant TE's and a chain-mover in Boldin.

I really like Gray as the darkhorse for the 3rd TE spot. I think he has a much higher ceiling than Celek, but he needs to be able to block. Would love to see him bust out this summer.

Im also on board with your 5 WR's for the 53. I don't think we see Manningham until after the BYE.

Yeah and watching Gray in some Niner videos he looked to be explosive with the ball in his hands. He'll be learning a wide array of skills and formations out of the Q....some blocking for both RB & QB, crack back and wham blocks, splitting out, flaring out, lining up at different positions in different formations, etc. I think he may end up being a true H-back. Plus I'm sure he can play some ST as well.

Yeah, I wanted to go with 6 but we just don't run many 3 WR sets...if any at all. Plus if Marlon makes it, who do we let go? This is a tough 53 to make! Even tougher to call...predict.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by DRUSTOPO:

Originally posted by NCommand:
As of (right now) for my 53, this is who I have: post #245 http://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/niners/171861-team-needs-updates/page17/#post245

WR (5): X = A.J. Jenkins/Ricardo Lockette Y = Quinton Patton/Kyle Williams Z = Anquan Boldin; Mario Manningham & Michael Crabtree (PUP) - Marlon Moore is right on that bubble; he can be a gunner with his speed on ST, return some and even provide that deep threat as well. Chad Hall, Joe Hastings, Chuck Jacobs all gone. Manningham is brought along slowly.

TE (3): Vernon Davis, Vance McDonald and MarQueis Gray (H-back) - Cameron Morrah and Garrett Celek are gone.


Great points. I thought long and hard about Cameron Morrah as well...and Marlon Moore. I agree that if we don't develop that outside threat, we will see more 2 TE sets, more guys lining up next to CK from the Q formation and using more Boldin/McDonald from the slot...sort of a between-the-hashmarks offense. Power running mixed in with 2 dominant TE's and a chain-mover in Boldin.

I really like Gray as the darkhorse for the 3rd TE spot. I think he has a much higher ceiling than Celek, but he needs to be able to block. Would love to see him bust out this summer.

Im also on board with your 5 WR's for the 53. I don't think we see Manningham until after the BYE.

Yeah and watching Gray in some Niner videos he looked to be explosive with the ball in his hands. He'll be learning a wide array of skills and formations out of the Q....some blocking for both RB & QB, crack back and wham blocks, splitting out, flaring out, lining up at different positions in different formations, etc. I think he may end up being a true H-back. Plus I'm sure he can play some ST as well.

Yeah, I wanted to go with 6 but we just don't run many 3 WR sets...if any at all. Plus if Marlon makes it, who do we let go? This is a tough 53 to make! Even tougher to call...predict.

The one negative about those 3 TE's (if Gray makes) is that VD would be the blocking specialist. Both Gray and McDonald are relatively raw in that aspect. Maybe if Sheplar can make the roster as a FB/TE/ST player then it wouldn't be much of a concern. But I doubt the staff wants one of our best offensive weapons staying in to block in our heavy sets.

Originally posted by 5280High:
The one negative about those 3 TE's (if Gray makes) is that VD would be the blocking specialist. Both Gray and McDonald are relatively raw in that aspect. Maybe if Sheplar can make the roster as a FB/TE/ST player then it wouldn't be much of a concern. But I doubt the staff wants one of our best offensive weapons staying in to block in our heavy sets.

I understand the concern, but you're putting the cart before the horse. Let's see how things develop after they put pads on. Sometimes rookies just "get it" after some NFL coaching... for all we know, Vance will be a better blocker than Vernon. It's far too early to attempt predictions so far down the depth chart.

Originally posted by 5280High:
The one negative about those 3 TE's (if Gray makes) is that VD would be the blocking specialist. Both Gray and McDonald are relatively raw in that aspect. Maybe if Sheplar can make the roster as a FB/TE/ST player then it wouldn't be much of a concern. But I doubt the staff wants one of our best offensive weapons staying in to block in our heavy sets.

Good point. My counter to that (and I'm sure I'm the only one who has him thus far) but I have a pure FB in Alex Debniak making the 53 as insurance should Miller go down (which is bigger than most think). He is epic and critical to our run game. With a healthy Gore, Hunter and James, you can bet we'll be running a lot. Therefore, I have Alex Debniak beating out Jason Schepler (barely) but it sounds like we might win either way here. We could go Dixon again but he's not a pure blocker and both Alex/Jason can play ST as well. I think Alex/Jason has played out of the Q formation as well? Not positive about that one...