There are 101 users in the forums

Remember
Not a member? Register Now!

Baalke made 2 errors this offseason

  • J49er
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 54
Originally posted by JamesGatz83:
Originally posted by GNielsen:
Sorry, but your logic doesn't work here. The move would not be BECAUSE he played safety in college. That is only relevant to explain why he might be fine with a move to safety. There is no reason to move Miller to DE - he's one of the league's best Fullbacks. There is no reason to move Staley to TE - he's one of the league's best left tackles. The defensive backfield, on the other hand, has a couple problems. They need better coverage skills. If you've got a corner who has played safety and is good in coverage and you're problem is bad coverage from the safety, it makes sense to consider making that corner a safety. I suppose if you'd been around at the time you would have been against moving Ronnie Lott to safety. Sometimes corners with good size become good cover safeties.

Bingo. Nicely done with the Ronnie Lott reference. Having someone at FS with the range and coverage ability of Culliver would be ideal in the modern NFL. The trend in that direction has already started.

When did Culliver all of a sudden develop free safety cover skills? His biggest deficiency is tracking the ball in the air. Not exactly a skill you want in a free safety.
Originally posted by J49er:
When did Culliver all of a sudden develop free safety cover skills? His biggest deficiency is tracking the ball in the air. Not exactly a skill you want in a free safety.

Yes, his biggest deficiency is finding the ball from the corner position while running down the sideline locked up with a receiver. Finding the ball in the air while facing the line of scrimmage from the FS position is not as hard which is why the FS is usually the player with the most interceptions.
Originally posted by J49er:
Originally posted by SofaKing:
Originally posted by J49er:
Baalke's BIGGEST mistake is actually deciding to give Dashon Goldson money to a 30yr old cornerback coming off a his first probowl in a contract year: Carlos Rogers. He paid this over the hill player 7 mill per year and decided to franchise Goldson. The correct move should have been locking up the hawk and franchising Rogers or letting him walk, then we probably would have drafted Janoris Jenkins, not AJ Jenkins (another Baalke flop) ...hindsight is a b!#%^

Carlos' deal really has no bearing on Dashon. We offered Goldson 5 yr, $25 mil and he rejected it. Baalke didn't make a mistake. Even now, we're not going to give Dashon $8 mil per year. That's not going to happen. Carlos accepted our offer, Dashon didn't. Simple as that.

Not as simple. Baalke lowballed Goldson and decided Rogers was more valuable thus getting a larger contract. Baalke was wrong there is no debating that when you compare who deserved the higher deal.

Carlos was the better player in 2011. Not to mention CB's are generally more valued than FS's. Carlos was our #1 corner and slot cover man. It made sense to offer him the bigger deal. Baalke was never going to give Dashon the 5 yr, $40 mil deal that he wants. Dashon is a very good player, but he's not that far superior to what we can get at a fraction of the cost. It's business.
Carlos was better in 2011. So was Goldson and so was Whitner. Time to start rebuilding that defensive backfield and shoring up the D line for better pass rush.
Originally posted by J49er:
Originally posted by JamesGatz83:
Originally posted by GNielsen:
Sorry, but your logic doesn't work here. The move would not be BECAUSE he played safety in college. That is only relevant to explain why he might be fine with a move to safety. There is no reason to move Miller to DE - he's one of the league's best Fullbacks. There is no reason to move Staley to TE - he's one of the league's best left tackles. The defensive backfield, on the other hand, has a couple problems. They need better coverage skills. If you've got a corner who has played safety and is good in coverage and you're problem is bad coverage from the safety, it makes sense to consider making that corner a safety. I suppose if you'd been around at the time you would have been against moving Ronnie Lott to safety. Sometimes corners with good size become good cover safeties.

Bingo. Nicely done with the Ronnie Lott reference. Having someone at FS with the range and coverage ability of Culliver would be ideal in the modern NFL. The trend in that direction has already started.

When did Culliver all of a sudden develop free safety cover skills? His biggest deficiency is tracking the ball in the air. Not exactly a skill you want in a free safety.

Culliver was a good FS at South Carolina an SEC school. He was able to play both FS and CB. He should actually be playing FS for us instead of CB. It is not like FS is something new to him.
Originally posted by DaDivaRecieva15:
LOL waste of a thread

Originally posted by GNielsen:
Sorry, but your logic doesn't work here. The move would not be BECAUSE he played safety in college. That is only relevant to explain why he might be fine with a move to safety. There is no reason to move Miller to DE - he's one of the league's best Fullbacks. There is no reason to move Staley to TE - he's one of the league's best left tackles. The defensive backfield, on the other hand, has a couple problems. They need better coverage skills. If you've got a corner who has played safety and is good in coverage and you're problem is bad coverage from the safety, it makes sense to consider making that corner a safety. I suppose if you'd been around at the time you would have been against moving Ronnie Lott to safety. Sometimes corners with good size become good cover safeties.

Why move a CB that is good in coverage to FS and is smaller than Goldson and take a chance on an unproven rookie at CB. Thats what doesnt make sense. Why not just draft a FS prospect that projects to a FS, so that the player is more comfotable and has a better chance to succeed. Why waste the time using him at CB if FS is his more natural position? Just because someone played a position in the past, does not make it their more natural position.
Chris Culliver does not equal Ronnie Lott (or Rod Woodson, who also made the switch), comparing a serviceable player with a HOF player doesnt really show a good chance of success for a Culliver.
[ Edited by NinerFan408 on Mar 11, 2013 at 7:44 AM ]
Originally posted by NinerFan408:
Why move a CB that is good in coverage to FS and is smaller than Goldson and take a chance on an unproven rookie at CB. Thats what doesnt make sense. Why not just draft a FS prospect that projects to a FS, so that the player is more comfotable and has a better chance to succeed. Why waste the time using him at CB if FS is his more natural position? Just because someone played a position in the past, does not make it their more natural position.
Chris Culliver does not equal Ronnie Lott (or Rod Woodson, who also made the switch), comparing a serviceable player with a HOF player doesnt really show a good chance of success for a Culliver.
Good question. And the answer is because it's harder for a rookie to step right in at FS than it is for one to step right in at corner. Rookies step right in at corner all the time, but you'd rather have someone who is at least already familiar with the defensive calls at FS. And, the other thing about his is that Culliver IS a good cover guy, but he seems to have trouble finding the ball when he's playing corner. It's easier for a safety to find the ball in the air because he's more likely to be standing back and watching the line of scrimmage than running down the sideline closely locked on a receiver.
Originally posted by GNielsen:
Good question. And the answer is because it's harder for a rookie to step right in at FS than it is for one to step right in at corner. Rookies step right in at corner all the time, but you'd rather have someone who is at least already familiar with the defensive calls at FS. And, the other thing about his is that Culliver IS a good cover guy, but he seems to have trouble finding the ball when he's playing corner. It's easier for a safety to find the ball in the air because he's more likely to be standing back and watching the line of scrimmage than running down the sideline closely locked on a receiver.

I agree with your principal, but it isnt going to happen.
oops
[ Edited by Marvin49 on Mar 11, 2013 at 8:27 AM ]
Originally posted by J49er:
Originally posted by SanFranFanfrmVa:
Baalke has been great and getting 2 good draft picks for Smith was incredible but he's made 2 mistakes this offseason. The first was letting Tom Gamble leave and take a lateral position with the Eagles. The 2nd was not placing the franchise tag on Goldson. It's fine if he didn't want to give Goldson a longterm commitment but with a team ready for another super bowl run you don't start to go with rookies or players who don't know your system. Should've franchised Goldson and drafted his repacement to learn for a year. Goldson is as good as gone and Baalke let the wrong safety get out of town.



Baalke's BIGGEST mistake is actually deciding to give Dashon Goldson money to a 30yr old cornerback coming off a his first probowl in a contract year: Carlos Rogers. He paid this over the hill player 7 mill per year and decided to franchise Goldson. The correct move should have been locking up the hawk and franchising Rogers or letting him walk, then we probably would have drafted Janoris Jenkins, not AJ Jenkins (another Baalke flop) ...hindsight is a b!#%^

Well...

...to be real here for a second...

This wasn't a matter of choosing Rogers over Goldson. It was a matter of trying to keep both. The franchise # on a CB is MUCH higher than a Safety. That's why Rogers was resigned (and not to a HUGE deal BTW) and Goldson was tagged.
Originally posted by SportsFan:
First nomination for worst football related thread of year.

I was tempted to second the nomination but will refrain. Simply, because everyone is entitled to their opinion regardless of how much I might disagree with it.
  • cciowa
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 24,128
Originally posted by British9er:
Originally posted by SportsFan:
First nomination for worst football related thread of year.

I was tempted to second the nomination but will refrain. Simply, because everyone is entitled to their opinion regardless of how much I might disagree with it.
there is not one thing wrong for someone to express what they feel is a legit problem they think the front office or coaches did. i would be amused for someone to try to tell me why this is such a " terrible thread"
If you think Goldson should have been franchised please consider this and then ask yourself it you still think Goldson should be franchised.

If he had been tagged he would receive 6.6% of the entire team's salary cap. When you consider that the team has Justin Smith, Patrick Willis, Nabarro Bowman, Carlos Rogers and Ahmed Brooks on defence and Frank Gore, Vernon Davis, Michael Crabtree and Joe Staley on offence that are all playing critical positions and earn decent money too ($5m+ ) (circa 5% of the cap) that's a minimum of half your salary cap gone on ten players (not including signing bonuses). You now have about $80m to sign 43 players. SO you want to pay 43 players out of 53 and average of $2m a year.

Now consider that during the period of any contract extension for Goldson - say a minimum 3 year deal - that Michael Crabtree, Colin Kaepernick, Mike Iupati, Anthony Davis and Aldon Smith all become due to be re-signed. Are you going to offer them all the same money? I personally can't see Kaep, Iupati, Anthony Davis or Aldon Smith staying for the value of their rookie contracts as adjusted for any increase in the salary cap. Can you? I'd expect them all to be pushing above $5m a season and close to the $8-10m bracket.

Still not convinced? Would you like to argue that Goldson deserves the money because of his production and play on the field? Well, fair enough he is a very good NFL player, he is a pro-bowl FS and an all pro but consider that he only has 14 career interceptions (4 years as a starter - avg 3.5 per season and 6 of them (nearly half his career total) came last season. 14 safeties had more interceptions than Goldson in 2012

Still want to pay Goldson as THE or one of the highest paid safety in the league?
[ Edited by British9er on Mar 11, 2013 at 9:59 AM ]
Originally posted by NinerFan408:
Originally posted by GNielsen:
Good question. And the answer is because it's harder for a rookie to step right in at FS than it is for one to step right in at corner. Rookies step right in at corner all the time, but you'd rather have someone who is at least already familiar with the defensive calls at FS. And, the other thing about his is that Culliver IS a good cover guy, but he seems to have trouble finding the ball when he's playing corner. It's easier for a safety to find the ball in the air because he's more likely to be standing back and watching the line of scrimmage than running down the sideline closely locked on a receiver.

I agree with your principal, but it isnt going to happen.
We'll see. It's hard to predict with Baalke and Harbaugh, but they've been known to get creative in the past.