Smith, Tolzien thread. Yet again

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by AmpLee:

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by AmpLee:

Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:

Originally posted by Jcool:

Originally posted by susweel:
Smith expected to request release

http://m.nbcsports.com/rotoworld-main-headlines/sport/rotoworld-hl-nfl?article=1235326

Important part of that: "The 49ers don't have to oblige, of course. Smith has trade value, and the 49ers won't honor his request if it doesn't help their team. Getting back a draft pick would."

Sounds like a lot of conjecture too.

As much respect I have for Alex and what he endured here, we have to do what's best for our team and get picks for him. He might not like it, but he's only got one year left on his deal.

I disagree I think they should grant him his release and let him chose his team.

Yeah, let's take the chance of making our division even harder by allowing the Cards the opportunity to have a good QB on their roster. Also, let's still pay part of his salary and relinquish the possibility of mulitiple high draft picks. No thanks. This is a business, and I've always supported Alex, but at the end of the day, we have to do what's best for us. Also, that doesn't mean we can't work with Alex and try to seek offers from teams he approves.

I'll take my chances playing him twice a year if he ends up in the division but I think we should allow him his release. The way he has handled the demotion I think its the least we can do for him.

Is that really how you feel or is that opinion fueled by your dislike for him?

I would think that, as a fan, you would want the team to gain some value for him in trade.

Originally posted by dj43:
The 49ers STILL do not have the talent at WR that Kolb had in Philly, hence any such statements as above are lacking in validity. Philly had blazing speed and a quality RB when Kolb was putting up those numbers. Alex had a quality RB but nothing close to the receiver talent Kolb had. And don't bother talking about Vernon Davis. He is a straight line runner who still does not run good patterns.

...but then we have done all this before...

Originally posted by Jcool:

Originally posted by dj43:
The 49ers STILL do not have the talent at WR that Kolb had in Philly, hence any such statements as above are lacking in validity. Philly had blazing speed and a quality RB when Kolb was putting up those numbers. Alex had a quality RB but nothing close to the receiver talent Kolb had. And don't bother talking about Vernon Davis. He is a straight line runner who still does not run good patterns.

...but then we have done all this before...

So...state your case.

Originally posted by hofer36:
ill take your response as you are speculating and not having lunch with nfl execs...no one has said Smith is a franchise qb..no one said kolb was....what they really think probably doesnt leave the boardrooms of these teams...i can speculate like you and i think there are teams looking at smith and thinking we can win with that guy...one example is kansas city---they had a bad coach but their talent isnt bad and they play in a conference that can be won (broncos are btter but will play a tougher schedule and mannings health will always be a question)...andy reid and doug pederson can scheme an offensive that smith would be very good in

You are right that we also need to look at it on a team needs basis. But wasn't that already done last year? MIA went 7-9, 6-10, and 7-9 in the last 3 years. They were considered a fairly solid team and needed a QB. They passed up on Alex Smith for Gerrard.

Andy Reid is KC's head coach. He was never a coach that played his QB's as "game managers." We will see if a coach that LOVES him some dynamic passing...we will see how hard he desires Alex, a QB who is not a dynamic passer.

Originally posted by dj43:
So...state your case.

Crabtree is better then Jackson

Davis is better then Celek

Gore and McCoy are pretty even

Moss/Manningham are more valuable then Maclin/Avant

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by AmpLee:

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by AmpLee:

Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:

Originally posted by Jcool:

Originally posted by susweel:
Smith expected to request release

http://m.nbcsports.com/rotoworld-main-headlines/sport/rotoworld-hl-nfl?article=1235326

Important part of that: "The 49ers don't have to oblige, of course. Smith has trade value, and the 49ers won't honor his request if it doesn't help their team. Getting back a draft pick would."

Sounds like a lot of conjecture too.

As much respect I have for Alex and what he endured here, we have to do what's best for our team and get picks for him. He might not like it, but he's only got one year left on his deal.

I disagree I think they should grant him his release and let him chose his team.

Yeah, let's take the chance of making our division even harder by allowing the Cards the opportunity to have a good QB on their roster. Also, let's still pay part of his salary and relinquish the possibility of mulitiple high draft picks. No thanks. This is a business, and I've always supported Alex, but at the end of the day, we have to do what's best for us. Also, that doesn't mean we can't work with Alex and try to seek offers from teams he approves.

I'll take my chances playing him twice a year if he ends up in the division but I think we should allow him his release. The way he has handled the demotion I think its the least we can do for him.

Is that really how you feel or is that opinion fueled by your dislike for him?

I would think that, as a fan, you would want the team to gain some value for him in trade.

How is that dislike for him ? If anything its the opposite

Originally posted by Jcool:

Originally posted by dj43:
So...state your case.

Crabtree is better then Jackson

Davis is better then Celek

Gore and McCoy are pretty even

Moss/Manningham are more valuable then Maclin/Avant

Crabtree is a very good short-to-intermediate range receiver but does not scare defenses like Jackson does when he is not on a pout.

Davis is a straight line runner with speed but offers very little else as a pass receiver. That may not be popular here but it is the truth. He is a very good blocker but so was Billy Bajema. Celek is a better all round receiver. He reads defenses well. He finds the open spots and he catches the ball well with his hands. He also shields defenders away from the ball better. Davis gets too much credit for his speed over his pass receiving liabilities.

Moss, at one time was the equivalent of Jerry Rice in his prime but right now he is Jerry Rice in his final season.

Manningham in his best year was maybe as much of a threat as Maclin, otherwise, I would take Maclin in a heartbeat.

The Smith question will arise independently – will the 49ers do him a solid and release him to find his new home without encumbrance?

And the answer is, of course, no. This is the National Football League, and doing solids finishes well behind getting maximum value on the muscle....

....So what do the 49ers actually owe him? Much. What are they compelled to do for him? Not much. And in the NFL, kindness is typically just a prettied-up obligation.

For instance, Smith's $8.5 million price tag may be steeper than some potential trading partners want to pay. The pushback on that may force the 49ers to release him and say, "We did it because he's Alex." This would be a fairly transparent ruse, and well within current NFL guidelines for ruse-ery.

But this kindness-of-their-hearts argument makes so little sense that the only one pushing that notion would be Smith's agent, Tom Condon. The 49ers are, as they showed when the switch to The Mighty Kaepernick was done, bloodless when they need to, and often when they want to as well.

In sum, Smith has the same freedom of action he has always had, save that one for-show flirtation with Miami. None. He will be released only if the 49ers cannot trade him. Or they may keep him out of fear that TMK could get hurt, the way most running quarterbacks eventually do. That would please Smith least of all, we presume.

http://www.csnbayarea.com/blog/ray-ratto/another-gut-punch-coming-alex-smith

Originally posted by dj43:

Crabtree is a very good short-to-intermediate range receiver but does not scare defenses like Jackson does when he is not on a pout.

Davis is a straight line runner with speed but offers very little else as a pass receiver. That may not be popular here but it is the truth. He is a very good blocker but so was Billy Bajema. Celek is a better all round receiver. He reads defenses well. He finds the open spots and he catches the ball well with his hands. He also shields defenders away from the ball better. Davis gets too much credit for his speed over his pass receiving liabilities.

Moss, at one time was the equivalent of Jerry Rice in his prime but right now he is Jerry Rice in his final season.

Manningham in his best year was maybe as much of a threat as Maclin, otherwise, I would take Maclin in a heartbeat.

lol. i have watched almost every Eagles game for the past 6 yrs.

Crabtree has way better hands, blocks 1000x better and isn't afraid to go over the middle and take a hit. speed isn't everything.

Vernon is a freak of nature at the position. ask any HC in the league and 99% will take VD over Celek.

Manningham and Maclin are a wash. Maclin is one of the most injury prone WR is the league.

I just find it interesting that people will do what ever it takes to distract a team right before the Superbowl ( e.g. with this Alex Smith news)...This "headline news" had to be timed before the game...Can this stuff just wait until after this weekend?

Originally posted by boast:

Originally posted by dj43:
Crabtree is a very good short-to-intermediate range receiver but does not scare defenses like Jackson does when he is not on a pout.

Davis is a straight line runner with speed but offers very little else as a pass receiver. That may not be popular here but it is the truth. He is a very good blocker but so was Billy Bajema. Celek is a better all round receiver. He reads defenses well. He finds the open spots and he catches the ball well with his hands. He also shields defenders away from the ball better. Davis gets too much credit for his speed over his pass receiving liabilities.

Moss, at one time was the equivalent of Jerry Rice in his prime but right now he is Jerry Rice in his final season.

Manningham in his best year was maybe as much of a threat as Maclin, otherwise, I would take Maclin in a heartbeat.

lol. i have watched almost every Eagles game for the past 6 yrs.

Crabtree has way better hands, blocks 1000x better and isn't afraid to go over the middle and take a hit. speed isn't everything.

Vernon is a freak of nature at the position. ask any HC in the league and 99% will take VD over Celek.

Manningham and Maclin are a wash. Maclin is one of the most injury prone WR is the league.

Would take Crabtree over any reciever on their roster in a heartbeat, tight end is not even a competition between VD and Celek. Speed isnt everything if your recievers are injury prone toothpicks without the toughness to block downfield. It should be said that had we not been going to the superbowl, Crabs would have been one of the first pro bowl alternates

Originally posted by dj43:
Crabtree is a very good short-to-intermediate range receiver but does not scare defenses like Jackson does when he is not on a pout.

Davis is a straight line runner with speed but offers very little else as a pass receiver. That may not be popular here but it is the truth. He is a very good blocker but so was Billy Bajema. Celek is a better all round receiver. He reads defenses well. He finds the open spots and he catches the ball well with his hands. He also shields defenders away from the ball better. Davis gets too much credit for his speed over his pass receiving liabilities.

Moss, at one time was the equivalent of Jerry Rice in his prime but right now he is Jerry Rice in his final season.

Manningham in his best year was maybe as much of a threat as Maclin, otherwise, I would take Maclin in a heartbeat.

Crabtree is like Jerry Rice in his 40 time might not be great but has great in game speed. All Jackson gives you is speed, nothing more... Has average hands and will not go over the middle. Would much rather have Crabtree.

49ers aren't going to pass the ball 40 times like the Eagles offense, so Moss and Manningham might not have world class numbers but Manningham was making a big impact before he got hurt and Moss catches everything (expect the one fastball that hurt his hand and haven't been able to connect on the deep pass).

Few TE are better then Davis and Celek isnt in his class.

I thought this was a Tolzien thread? I believe Alex will be gone, one way or the other, so the question is, is Tolzien, or will Tolzien, be a serviceable backup to Kaep? Frankly, from what little we saw of the guy in preseason and talk from training camp, he actually appeared to be the better QB (IMHO). The fact that Kaep has done as well as he has certainly wasn't evident from his previous public appearances. I think, with more experince, Tolzien could be very good and a more than adequate backup to Kaep, allowing us to use trades and draft picks in areas of greater need.

Originally posted by AmpLee:

Originally posted by jimmythegreekjr:
I just find it interesting that people will do what ever it takes to distract a team right before the Superbowl ( e.g. with this Alex Smith news)...This "headline news" had to be timed before the game...Can this stuff just wait until after this weekend?

The timing of this story is curious. Alex wants the Niners to do him a solid, but his camp leaks this a weak before the Super Bowl. That's not in the best interest in the team, especially considering that one injury to Kaep makes Alex next in line to lead this team to victory. IMO, he needs to be concentrating on the game like every other teammate and worry about the offseason come Monday morning.

Alex has endured a lot with this team, and it's unfortunate that he didn't get to lead us to the big game, but he's been well compensated over the years, and has been put in a situation to showcase his skills and be a starter for another franchise. Two years ago, it was a cold market for Alex. Fast forward and I think it's fair to say the organization has done a lot for the guy. No hard feelings, Alex, but the business is about putting the best product on the field for the fans.

I may have read a different article than you, but what I read didn't suggest it came from Smith at all. Merely a prediction piece, filler before the SB.
"Alex Smith is likely to ask for his release." -- seems like a weak opening, with no real substance.

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by pwillis52beasty:

Originally posted by English:
Kolb?!!! Seriously? I remember a number of people wanting him here. Hard to believe some posters would, with what we know know, prefer him to Smith.

No accounting for some folks.

Yeah, isn't that hilarious. Kolb . Smith is far better than Kolb, and it's really not even close. How some people think that they're on the same level or Kolb is even better, baffles me.

Having said that, I hope that we trade Alex Smith to the Jets and get Revis (on a one year deal) in exchange. He'd definitely play a hell of a lot better than Sanchez . And I'd like to see Alex Smith whoop Tom Brady's ass twice a year

No one is saying that. What's incorrect is to think Smith will warrant the same type of money as Kolb or Flynn did on the sole reason that that was what teams gave up for them.

There is a huge difference in why those teams acquired those guys:
Those teams considered them as possible franchise QBs whereas Smith is not.

That's just reality, it doesn't mean one is said to be better than the other.

There was a guy on here that I was arguing with some pages back that was saying Kolb and Fitzpatrick are as good or better than Alex Smith.