Smith, Tolzien thread. Yet again

Originally posted by Dshearn:

Originally posted by Jakemall:
Usually, back-ups are a huge step down from the starter..but because no one has much film on them they're servicable for a couple games...see Troy Smith. I think Tolzien will be fine. The fact that he's a different style of qb than Kaep is also probably to his advantage if he had to come in on the spot.

that's the truth...I don't think there is 32 functional QBs in this league

there is however sitations where stabability and coaches that can make the right QBs functional

Deburg
Montana
Bono
Young
Garbac

Amazing when you think about it that all those qbs were at least servicable qbs in the nfl for some time after they left the 9ers. Even Deburg who we constantly belittle had a pretty good career after he left here.

Originally posted by aTx49er:

Originally posted by Jakemall:

Originally posted by verb1der:
I would feel really bad for Alex if he went to a division rival. That means Kaep gets to beat him twice a year for many years to come. That's like living next door to your ex girlfriend who dumped you for a hotter guy.

Alex wouldn't play against Colin..he'd play against our defense.

It always bugs me when someone says this QB beat that QB, like they're playing each other one on one.......

QBs are ALWAYS compared! Do you not watch football?! lol

As a matter of fact, ESPN, NFL Network, and CSN Bay Area, are all comparing Kaep and Flacco right now. Hmm, wonder why.

Originally posted by Jakemall:

Amazing when you think about it that all those qbs were at least servicable qbs in the nfl for some time after they left the 9ers. Even Deburg who we constantly belittle had a pretty good career after he left here.

The chiefs got all but garbac

what kills me...the best of Montana Young Garbac and Bono is hard to tell apart

The worst of each s what makes legends

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by boast:

Originally posted by Joecool:
There's a reason why Kolb and Palmer are sought more than Alex. Alex does not scare a defense and has not shown to make an offense dynamic. We will be lucky to get a second rounder. Read what Kolb. Did in his first two starts. Alex still has not done this in 8 years.

"he threw for 391 yards on 31 completions.[36] On September 27, 2009, Kolb made his second start in place of McNabb, throwing for 327 yards and two touchdowns in a 34-14 win against the Kansas City Chiefs. Kolb became the first quarterback in NFL history to throw for more than 300 yards in each of his first two career starts. He was named the NFC Offensive Player of the Week after his efforts against the Chiefs.[37]"

you and the irrelevant 300yd games. ya know what...Alex did something Kolb and Palmer still haven't done.... win a playoff game. look at Kap, he doesn't need 300yd games to win.

GET.OVER.IT

Ahhh, but I never said those 300 yard games warranted attention. The sad part of all of this is that there are personnel people on a lot of teams that evaluated for that sole purpose. They saw Kolb put up those stats and saw potential. They saw what he could do if he played well. They haven't been able to see that from Alex Smith.

Alex may be a better QB than Kolb, but while both played for playoff caliber teams, Kolb produced more.

BTW, I could care less about 300 yard games. I'm just pointing out that Kolb showed he could have some HUGE games in the right conditions. "Right Conditions", wasn't that a phrase thrown around here for years? Alex was in the right conditions the past two years yet he still wasn't able to explode for huge production. It may be the system's fault or it may be Alex's fault...but one thing we do know is that Alex is a not a Homerun type of QB.

Either way, we will find out by how much he is coveted.

As for Kaep, dude accounted for 400+ yards vs GB. That's producing, big time.

you talk like you have luch with nfl personnel people all the time--is that true, do they tell you what they see, or are you just peculating?

Originally posted by hofer36:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by boast:

Originally posted by Joecool:
There's a reason why Kolb and Palmer are sought more than Alex. Alex does not scare a defense and has not shown to make an offense dynamic. We will be lucky to get a second rounder. Read what Kolb. Did in his first two starts. Alex still has not done this in 8 years.

"he threw for 391 yards on 31 completions.[36] On September 27, 2009, Kolb made his second start in place of McNabb, throwing for 327 yards and two touchdowns in a 34-14 win against the Kansas City Chiefs. Kolb became the first quarterback in NFL history to throw for more than 300 yards in each of his first two career starts. He was named the NFC Offensive Player of the Week after his efforts against the Chiefs.[37]"

you and the irrelevant 300yd games. ya know what...Alex did something Kolb and Palmer still haven't done.... win a playoff game. look at Kap, he doesn't need 300yd games to win.

GET.OVER.IT

Ahhh, but I never said those 300 yard games warranted attention. The sad part of all of this is that there are personnel people on a lot of teams that evaluated for that sole purpose. They saw Kolb put up those stats and saw potential. They saw what he could do if he played well. They haven't been able to see that from Alex Smith.

Alex may be a better QB than Kolb, but while both played for playoff caliber teams, Kolb produced more.

BTW, I could care less about 300 yard games. I'm just pointing out that Kolb showed he could have some HUGE games in the right conditions. "Right Conditions", wasn't that a phrase thrown around here for years? Alex was in the right conditions the past two years yet he still wasn't able to explode for huge production. It may be the system's fault or it may be Alex's fault...but one thing we do know is that Alex is a not a Homerun type of QB.

Either way, we will find out by how much he is coveted.

As for Kaep, dude accounted for 400+ yards vs GB. That's producing, big time.

you talk like you have luch with nfl personnel people all the time--is that true, do they tell you what they see, or are you just peculating?

Have you heard ANYONE around the league say Smith is a Franchise QB? Jim Harbaugh even or Baalke?


As for releasing him because we "owe" it to him. Well, as of now, the 49ers and Alex Smith are even. We could have easily, as would any team, cut ties with Alex after 4, 5, or 6 years. But the 49ers stuck with him and realized he deserves better. Any team in the league would have dropped him by then. We didn't.

So, we stuck with him and gave him a chance to show that he does belong in the league. Starting Kap over him was not dirty at all. Alex is in a good position because of the fact that the 49ers decided to stick with him.

We should trade him but try to find a team he's willing to go to and one that's willing to give up solid compensation.

Originally posted by Joecool:
Have you heard ANYONE around the league say Smith is a Franchise QB? Jim Harbaugh even or Baalke?


As for releasing him because we "owe" it to him. Well, as of now, the 49ers and Alex Smith are even. We could have easily, as would any team, cut ties with Alex after 4, 5, or 6 years. But the 49ers stuck with him and realized he deserves better. Any team in the league would have dropped him by then. We didn't.

So, we stuck with him and gave him a chance to show that he does belong in the league. Starting Kap over him was not dirty at all. Alex is in a good position because of the fact that the 49ers decided to stick with him.

We should trade him but try to find a team he's willing to go to and one that's willing to give up solid compensation.

I've heard Jim call Alex a probowl QB...

As for sticking with him..they tried to replace him countless times...he always came out on top...so it's not like the 9ers had better options.

Originally posted by verb1der:

Originally posted by aTx49er:

Originally posted by Jakemall:

Originally posted by verb1der:
I would feel really bad for Alex if he went to a division rival. That means Kaep gets to beat him twice a year for many years to come. That's like living next door to your ex girlfriend who dumped you for a hotter guy.

Alex wouldn't play against Colin..he'd play against our defense.

It always bugs me when someone says this QB beat that QB, like they're playing each other one on one.......

QBs are ALWAYS compared! Do you not watch football?! lol

As a matter of fact, ESPN, NFL Network, and CSN Bay Area, are all comparing Kaep and Flacco right now. Hmm, wonder why.

Comparing QBs and saying a QB beat another are two completely different things.

To say a "QB beat another QB" is a logical fallacy because it is the "QB's team that beats another QB's team. You know this is a team sport right?

This fallacy is perpetuated by the media and parroted by fans. Still doesn't make it right.......

Originally posted by ninerfan818:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by susweel:
Smith expected to request release

http://m.nbcsports.com/rotoworld-main-headlines/sport/rotoworld-hl-nfl?article=1235326

No way the 49ers give him any chance to wind up in Arizona. I expect they will try to work a deal to give Alex the best possible landing spot that will have the least impact on the 49ers.

Would you be afraid to play Smith twice a year? That's two wins right there. Let him go to AZ if he wants to or if the want him. I have tons of respect for him as a player but as we've seen he's pretty easy to defend because he likes to throw underneath a lot.

I don't know much about Tolzien...is he any good or do we need to address the QB2 spot? Go Niners!

Smith was a lot easier to defend when he had only a still-learning Michael Crabtree and a bunch of 3rd tier receivers than he would be pitching it to Larry Fitzgerald. 49er brass clearly know that Smith is capable of playing winning football and they are not about to help the Cardinals achieve that status by allowing Alex Smith to go there.

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by hofer36:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by boast:

Originally posted by Joecool:
There's a reason why Kolb and Palmer are sought more than Alex. Alex does not scare a defense and has not shown to make an offense dynamic. We will be lucky to get a second rounder. Read what Kolb. Did in his first two starts. Alex still has not done this in 8 years.

"he threw for 391 yards on 31 completions.[36] On September 27, 2009, Kolb made his second start in place of McNabb, throwing for 327 yards and two touchdowns in a 34-14 win against the Kansas City Chiefs. Kolb became the first quarterback in NFL history to throw for more than 300 yards in each of his first two career starts. He was named the NFC Offensive Player of the Week after his efforts against the Chiefs.[37]"

you and the irrelevant 300yd games. ya know what...Alex did something Kolb and Palmer still haven't done.... win a playoff game. look at Kap, he doesn't need 300yd games to win.

GET.OVER.IT

Ahhh, but I never said those 300 yard games warranted attention. The sad part of all of this is that there are personnel people on a lot of teams that evaluated for that sole purpose. They saw Kolb put up those stats and saw potential. They saw what he could do if he played well. They haven't been able to see that from Alex Smith.

Alex may be a better QB than Kolb, but while both played for playoff caliber teams, Kolb produced more.

BTW, I could care less about 300 yard games. I'm just pointing out that Kolb showed he could have some HUGE games in the right conditions. "Right Conditions", wasn't that a phrase thrown around here for years? Alex was in the right conditions the past two years yet he still wasn't able to explode for huge production. It may be the system's fault or it may be Alex's fault...but one thing we do know is that Alex is a not a Homerun type of QB.

Either way, we will find out by how much he is coveted.

As for Kaep, dude accounted for 400+ yards vs GB. That's producing, big time.

you talk like you have luch with nfl personnel people all the time--is that true, do they tell you what they see, or are you just peculating?

Have you heard ANYONE around the league say Smith is a Franchise QB? Jim Harbaugh even or Baalke?


As for releasing him because we "owe" it to him. Well, as of now, the 49ers and Alex Smith are even. We could have easily, as would any team, cut ties with Alex after 4, 5, or 6 years. But the 49ers stuck with him and realized he deserves better. Any team in the league would have dropped him by then. We didn't.

So, we stuck with him and gave him a chance to show that he does belong in the league. Starting Kap over him was not dirty at all. Alex is in a good position because of the fact that the 49ers decided to stick with him.

We should trade him but try to find a team he's willing to go to and one that's willing to give up solid compensation.

ill take your response as you are speculating and not having lunch with nfl execs...no one has said Smith is a franchise qb..no one said kolb was....what they really think probably doesnt leave the boardrooms of these teams...i can speculate like you and i think there are teams looking at smith and thinking we can win with that guy...one example is kansas city---they had a bad coach but their talent isnt bad and they play in a conference that can be won (broncos are btter but will play a tougher schedule and mannings health will always be a question)...andy reid and doug pederson can scheme an offensive that smith would be very good in

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by boast:

Originally posted by Joecool:
There's a reason why Kolb and Palmer are sought more than Alex. Alex does not scare a defense and has not shown to make an offense dynamic. We will be lucky to get a second rounder. Read what Kolb. Did in his first two starts. Alex still has not done this in 8 years.

"he threw for 391 yards on 31 completions.[36] On September 27, 2009, Kolb made his second start in place of McNabb, throwing for 327 yards and two touchdowns in a 34-14 win against the Kansas City Chiefs. Kolb became the first quarterback in NFL history to throw for more than 300 yards in each of his first two career starts. He was named the NFC Offensive Player of the Week after his efforts against the Chiefs.[37]"

you and the irrelevant 300yd games. ya know what...Alex did something Kolb and Palmer still haven't done.... win a playoff game. look at Kap, he doesn't need 300yd games to win.

GET.OVER.IT

Ahhh, but I never said those 300 yard games warranted attention. The sad part of all of this is that there are personnel people on a lot of teams that evaluated for that sole purpose. They saw Kolb put up those stats and saw potential. They saw what he could do if he played well. They haven't been able to see that from Alex Smith.

Alex may be a better QB than Kolb, but while both played for playoff caliber teams, Kolb produced more.

BTW, I could care less about 300 yard games. I'm just pointing out that Kolb showed he could have some HUGE games in the right conditions. "Right Conditions", wasn't that a phrase thrown around here for years? Alex was in the right conditions the past two years yet he still wasn't able to explode for huge production. It may be the system's fault or it may be Alex's fault...but one thing we do know is that Alex is a not a Homerun type of QB.

Either way, we will find out by how much he is coveted.

As for Kaep, dude accounted for 400+ yards vs GB. That's producing, big time.

18 for 24, 3 TDs, 303 passing yards, 156.3 QB Rating
18 for 19, 3 TDs, 232 passing yards, 157.1 QB Rating (only threw 3 passes in second half)

Why aren't these explosive games that you say Alex hasn't done?

Originally posted by almondJoy:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by susweel:
Smith expected to request release

http://m.nbcsports.com/rotoworld-main-headlines/sport/rotoworld-hl-nfl?article=1235326

No way the 49ers give him any chance to wind up in Arizona. I expect they will try to work a deal to give Alex the best possible landing spot that will have the least impact on the 49ers.

At this point we have 12 draft picks and 2 compensatory draft picks; maybe …. just maybe (just thinking kinda out loud) maybe, if Alex wants to be released, the 9yers should just let him go where he wants.

Yes, he was compensated very well as the first pick in the draft; in the spirit of "thank you" just let him go. I'm just saying ….

For the majority of those picks, the 49ers will be lucky to get a solid ST player. OTOH, if they get even a late 2nd for Smith they will be able to package that to make a move on someone who could be a first year starter. I could see them moving up to grab a top tier DE/DT to put in rotation with Justin and McDonald.

The 49ers don't need a lot but they do need depth. So to package their own 1st and 2nd plus what they get for Smith, they could move into the 8-14 ranges and get a very good DL that could replace Justin Smith or Sopoaga should he leave. The key would be the added value for Smith.

Originally posted by Jakemall:

Originally posted by Joecool:
Have you heard ANYONE around the league say Smith is a Franchise QB? Jim Harbaugh even or Baalke?


As for releasing him because we "owe" it to him. Well, as of now, the 49ers and Alex Smith are even. We could have easily, as would any team, cut ties with Alex after 4, 5, or 6 years. But the 49ers stuck with him and realized he deserves better. Any team in the league would have dropped him by then. We didn't.

So, we stuck with him and gave him a chance to show that he does belong in the league. Starting Kap over him was not dirty at all. Alex is in a good position because of the fact that the 49ers decided to stick with him.

We should trade him but try to find a team he's willing to go to and one that's willing to give up solid compensation.

I've heard Jim call Alex a probowl QB...

As for sticking with him..they tried to replace him countless times...he always came out on top...so it's not like the 9ers had better options.

Jim didn't say franchise but he did say 'elite' last year too.....

Originally posted by aTx49er:

Originally posted by verb1der:

Originally posted by aTx49er:

Originally posted by Jakemall:

Originally posted by verb1der:
I would feel really bad for Alex if he went to a division rival. That means Kaep gets to beat him twice a year for many years to come. That's like living next door to your ex girlfriend who dumped you for a hotter guy.

Alex wouldn't play against Colin..he'd play against our defense.

It always bugs me when someone says this QB beat that QB, like they're playing each other one on one.......

QBs are ALWAYS compared! Do you not watch football?! lol

As a matter of fact, ESPN, NFL Network, and CSN Bay Area, are all comparing Kaep and Flacco right now. Hmm, wonder why.

Comparing QBs and saying a QB beat another are two completely different things.

To say a "QB beat another QB" is a logical fallacy because it is the "QB's team that beats another QB's team. You know this is a team sport right?

This fallacy is perpetuated by the media and parroted by fans. Still doesn't make it right.......

Oh my bad, I forgot some folks don't understand figurative comments...here let me fix my post for you...

I would feel really bad for Alex if he went to a division rival. That means Kaep and his team gets to beat Alex and his team twice a year for many years to come. That's like living next door to your ex girlfriend who dumped you for a hotter guy.

happy!? good fvkcin lawd...

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by Jcool:

Originally posted by Joecool:
Ahhh, but I never said those 300 yard games warranted attention. The sad part of all of this is that there are personnel people on a lot of teams that evaluated for that sole purpose. They saw Kolb put up those stats and saw potential. They saw what he could do if he played well. They haven't been able to see that from Alex Smith.

Alex may be a better QB than Kolb, but while both played for playoff caliber teams, Kolb produced more.

BTW, I could care less about 300 yard games. I'm just pointing out that Kolb showed he could have some HUGE games in the right conditions. "Right Conditions", wasn't that a phrase thrown around here for years? Alex was in the right conditions the past two years yet he still wasn't able to explode for huge production. It may be the system's fault or it may be Alex's fault...but one thing we do know is that Alex is a not a Homerun type of QB.

Either way, we will find out by how much he is coveted.

As for Kaep, dude accounted for 400+ yards vs GB. That's producing, big time.

Alex is 100x better then Kolb and Kolb has never been the starter for a playoff caliber team.

2009. My point is that he excelled when he was under the "right conditions". I'm just saying, Alex has not shown he can blow a game away if the run game isn't working. He has nearly always struggled when the run game starts out struggling.

Also, the Kolb/Cassell/Flynn mistakes may hurt Alex even more since GM's may think they don't want to learn that lesson again. QB's coming from powerful teams don't always play as well on a weaker team. And Alex never really dominated while on that powerful team.

We will be lucky to get a 2nd rounder. He is not considered a Franchise QB. He is considered a placeholder QB.

The 49ers STILL do not have the talent at WR that Kolb had in Philly, hence any such statements as above are lacking in validity. Philly had blazing speed and a quality RB when Kolb was putting up those numbers. Alex had a quality RB but nothing close to the receiver talent Kolb had. And don't bother talking about Vernon Davis. He is a straight line runner who still does not run good patterns.

...but then we have done all this before...

Originally posted by Jakemall:

Originally posted by cciowa:

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
cc, what are your feelings re: Tolzien as a back up in worst case scenario...ie, Kap gets injured, seriously?

i have always said that if alex was not on the team backing up ck i would be a bit more unglued than usual. the thought of alex not being here, ck getting hurt and the kid going in terrifies me. i know that many people think our head coach can just wave one of my dads magic wands(he was a magician when he was not a tv repairman) and turn anyone into a great quarterback but moving forward I really think we should sign a vet for next year. i know many want to spend a draft pick on a qb but in my opinion with the need for a kicker and depth along the line , possible hole at safety and the need for two good tight ends, i feel we can not waste a pick on a quarterback.

Usually, back-ups are a huge step down from the starter..but because no one has much film on them they're servicable for a couple games...see Troy Smith. I think Tolzien will be fine. The fact that he's a different style of qb than Kaep is also probably to his advantage if he had to come in on the spot.

Bill Walsh used to look for athleticism and escapability in a backup. Reason being that a backup often had trouble reading defenses and going through his reads. Those qualities made CK ideal. In Tolzien's case, we don't know yet about those things but the fact he is very different from Kaepernick could be of benefit. Personally I have not seen enough of him to have a solid opinion.