49ers Rudimentary Pass Offense

Originally posted by GoldandGarnet:
There is just something wrong with this offense. It's ...."clunky" to me, compared with the smoothness and pure precision we are used to. The again, we have 3 OCs (Roman, Harbaugh, and our WR coach) when it comes to the passing game, so to me, that's why it looks ugly. WR coach puts the passing gameplan in during the week. Roman calls the plays, 80-90% of the time? With Harbaugh having veto power.

Too many hands in the cookie jar.

Clunky is a good description. A good part of that is the learning curve that Kaep is on, however, even when Alex was running it well, there were some real head scratchers that went on. I believe Harbaugh relies too much on scheme rather than the precision that Walsh required of both receivers and the QB. It was a trademark of the Walsh offense that he would line up in the same, or very similar formations play after play but would run very different plays out of them. Harbaugh seems to have a different formation or shift for each play. That forces slightly different blocking angles each play rather than settling in, finding a groove that works and pounding it.

Originally posted by Shorteous:

Originally posted by natrone06:

Originally posted by Shorteous:

WOW, you sure do draw some conclusions on limited facts. That's just insane .

Lol new around here?

No I have been viewing this site since the times of mooch. But I find myself incapable of ignoring grossly illogical methods. The poster literally claimed that he thinks Harbaugh took over play calling after the Rams debacle took effect. Just pulled that straight out of his online purchased BS Journalism... Funny thing is this guy probably doesn't even realize, at least from my perspective, that you cannot just make a statement like that and then expect anything you ever say to have any credibility. I'm sure he will boast in bravado and say my opinion doesn't mean jack to him and the thing is I can't even believe that. Anything he'll ever say has absolutely no credibility to me.

I actually 100% agree. It just happens so often around here I've personally lost the "wow" reaction.

dj43, small point about your "average receiver" theory. 1) You mention Walsh working miracles with "average" talent receivers like (a young) dwight clark... sorry, IMO Dwight was a hall of famer whose career was cut short due to injury. He was 6'5", had hydraulic hips, and A++ hands. Has anyone had that combination of physical skills before or since? Not really. megatron is fast, but can't cut like DC. No one that tall has ever been able to move like that.

The other thing is really that coaching staffs are supposed to teach the skills needed to be successful to the young talent. It's not all about speed. There's a lot of room for seperation technique, reading the D, timing, and so on. Agood staff may not be able to make a successful receiver from talent that has no physical advantage, but they can make a successful receiver with talent that maybe has one or two strngths. Shanahan is a real master at this. Look what he did for McCaffrey. He was just a tall possession receiver for SF. Went to Denver and he's catching balls everywhere on the field. That's coaching.

The 9ers need to find mentoring talent that can do that, too, IMO. you can't have enough of that on the coaching roster. IMO.

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
dj43, small point about your "average receiver" theory. 1) You mention Walsh working miracles with "average" talent receivers like (a young) dwight clark... sorry, IMO Dwight was a hall of famer whose career was cut short due to injury. He was 6'5", had hydraulic hips, and A++ hands. Has anyone had that combination of physical skills before or since? Not really. megatron is fast, but can't cut like DC. No one that tall has ever been able to move like that.

The other thing is really that coaching staffs are supposed to teach the skills needed to be successful to the young talent. It's not all about speed. There's a lot of room for seperation technique, reading the D, timing, and so on. Agood staff may not be able to make a successful receiver from talent that has no physical advantage, but they can make a successful receiver with talent that maybe has one or two strngths. Shanahan is a real master at this. Look what he did for McCaffrey. He was just a tall possession receiver for SF. Went to Denver and he's catching balls everywhere on the field. That's coaching.

The 9ers need to find mentoring talent that can do that, too, IMO. you can't have enough of that on the coaching roster. IMO.

I agree with your analysis of Clark. I saw every home game he played and he was very good. However, my main point was that in that first SB year, Clark had not yet developed into the receiver he became in the next four years. He was very "average" that year they won.

Which brings me to my second point of agreement with you; the 49ers appear to need someone to really mentor AJ Jenkins. I cannot believe that so many rookie WRs have had an impact around the league and Jenkins just is not good enough to make the 45. It hasn't been that there were superior WRs ahead of him, as we have noted in multiple threads. Either Baalke screwed up in drafting him or the coaching staff did a poor job in developing him. Another possibility is that Harbaugh made a conscious decision to run with only the early starters until injuries forced a change. He has done the same thing on the defense and we see how that has tired them out and what has happened with no solid backup behind Justin Smith. Harbaugh deserves some blame here.

Maybe Jim and roman are keeping things simple for Colin, we all thought jim was doing it for alex last season. Shifting has seemed to die down since Ck has become qb.

Lets hire Jimmy raye..before hes taken....

Originally posted by dj43:
I agree with your analysis of Clark. I saw every home game he played and he was very good. However, my main point was that in that first SB year, Clark had not yet developed into the receiver he became in the next four years. He was very "average" that year they won.

Which brings me to my second point of agreement with you; the 49ers appear to need someone to really mentor AJ Jenkins. I cannot believe that so many rookie WRs have had an impact around the league and Jenkins just is not good enough to make the 45. It hasn't been that there were superior WRs ahead of him, as we have noted in multiple threads. Either Baalke screwed up in drafting him or the coaching staff did a poor job in developing him. Another possibility is that Harbaugh made a conscious decision to run with only the early starters until injuries forced a change. He has done the same thing on the defense and we see how that has tired them out and what has happened with no solid backup behind Justin Smith. Harbaugh deserves some blame here.

I think you really have to look at the coaching here. It's surprising, because JH should be completely dialed in to the passing game in all phases. I'm not sure what's up. There could be a personality mismatch going on, or a pecking order thing going on. But the bottom line is that SF is getting no production from their #1. Unless AJ is a lame imbecile, I don't think that reflects well on the staff. Why not loosen up the collar a little bit? Chillax guys. If the talent doesn't come to you, go to the talent. Go on. Kiss their a**. Go ahead. Pucker up if that's what it takes to get this guy to catch a few balls. Find this guy on the sidelines and whack his shoulder pads a few times. We're going to need his production soon. In fact, we've missed it already.

About Dwight, yes, you are right. I am remembering him from 1981, after connecting with Joe his third year in the league. I only saw Dwight on TV. I never saw him drop a ball. Can't say that for anyone else, even Jerry. Jerry had A hands. John Taylor had A+ hands. Dwight had A++ hands. That year he just came out of nowhere and became the high percentage intermediate yardage pass receiving machine that made the WCO what it was. I'm not sure he converted a lot of third downs. I remember him being the reason they never had to worry about third and long too often.

Oh yes, and Dwight was drafted in the 10th round, btw.

Originally posted by Shorteous:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
I'm surprised the media didn't comment on it other than on the radio. If you pay attention, you can see Harbaugh holding a play chart out and visibly making the calls, I've seen him do it a few times before, especially last year, but it really got going in the 2nd half of the Seattle game, whereas in the first half he was simply walking around like normal. The Cardinals game started the same way....and then he started going for the chart more in the 2nd and 3rd quarter. By the time the 4th quarter came around, he wasn't doing it anymore.


I think what's happening is that he's been enforcing his veto power on calls more often ever since that option play against the Rams. When the playcalling doesn't go well, he appears to be pulling the hook on Roman and taking over.

WOW, you sure do draw some conclusions on limited facts. That's just insane reasoning.

You do know that calls have to come in from the sideline and not the booth right? Harbaugh relays the called plays to the QB. Any other conclusions about a chart, about a play in St. Louis is just lousy logic. I'm tired of assumed knowledge and tangential reasoning in this forum, for every GOFD there's 10 detractors.

GOFD is, if not the best, then one of the best posters on this board, and has been for years.

He's extremely knowledgeable about football, very reasonable and logical in the points he makes, and his posts are always worth reading.

Moreover, GOFD has established, and continues to establish, time and again, his credibility.

I'm very glad to see that you appreciate his posts. I'm sure that there are many others who do as well.

Originally posted by 49ercrusher:
Lets hire Jimmy raye..before hes taken....

before he takes a nap??

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
dj43, small point about your "average receiver" theory. 1) You mention Walsh working miracles with "average" talent receivers like (a young) dwight clark... sorry, IMO Dwight was a hall of famer whose career was cut short due to injury. He was 6'5", had hydraulic hips, and A++ hands. Has anyone had that combination of physical skills before or since? Not really. megatron is fast, but can't cut like DC. No one that tall has ever been able to move like that.

The other thing is really that coaching staffs are supposed to teach the skills needed to be successful to the young talent. It's not all about speed. There's a lot of room for seperation technique, reading the D, timing, and so on. Agood staff may not be able to make a successful receiver from talent that has no physical advantage, but they can make a successful receiver with talent that maybe has one or two strngths. Shanahan is a real master at this. Look what he did for McCaffrey. He was just a tall possession receiver for SF. Went to Denver and he's catching balls everywhere on the field. That's coaching.

The 9ers need to find mentoring talent that can do that, too, IMO. you can't have enough of that on the coaching roster. IMO.

I agree with your analysis of Clark. I saw every home game he played and he was very good. However, my main point was that in that first SB year, Clark had not yet developed into the receiver he became in the next four years. He was very "average" that year they won.

Which brings me to my second point of agreement with you; the 49ers appear to need someone to really mentor AJ Jenkins. I cannot believe that so many rookie WRs have had an impact around the league and Jenkins just is not good enough to make the 45. It hasn't been that there were superior WRs ahead of him, as we have noted in multiple threads. Either Baalke screwed up in drafting him or the coaching staff did a poor job in developing him. Another possibility is that Harbaugh made a conscious decision to run with only the early starters until injuries forced a change. He has done the same thing on the defense and we see how that has tired them out and what has happened with no solid backup behind Justin Smith. Harbaugh deserves some blame here.

A lot of stuff being pointed at the coaching here. As for other teams/coaches getting immediate production...there are coaches who give up some things for that production. Some coaches use an inexperienced player for a specific set of minimal plays. As more film is acquired, the more predictable those plays get unless the player is able to retain more information and apply it.

Remember what we did with Crabtree his rookie year? He was learning only that week's plan. The only problem is that you lose the ability to make adjustments on the fly or being unpredictable. Harbaugh is all about the advantage of being unpredictable.

I am sure this coaching staff develops its players but we also know this coaching staff will NOT simplify things for a player as we didn't for Vernon last year. It is the player's responsibility to do the studying and be mentally ready. This offense is more about being mentally ready than it is about being physically ready...unless injuries force the action.

Jenkins was considered one of the more polished receivers. The only thing that seems to holding him back is his ability to absorb the offense.