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49ers Rudimentary Pass Offense

I just don't buy it. Roman is highly regarded around the nfl and will be up for college and nfl HC gigs. Trying to examine stills from the all 22 cam is meaningless with how limited our knowledge is of the the play call and nfl offenses as a whole. This ain't madden create a play.
[ Edited by natrone06 on Dec 31, 2012 at 2:28 PM ]
Mary Kay Cabot reports from the Browns that they are interested in Roman as a HC via NFL Network.
Forgot to mention that capturing a few images from the worst game of the year isn't exactly the most objective way of assessing a passing scheme.
Originally posted by NCommand:
Mary Kay Cabot reports from the Browns that they are interested in Roman as a HC via NFL Network.

Browns are interested in everyone. They also reportedly like Mike Zimmer, Ray Horton, Aaron Kromer, Dirk Koetter....etc
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Mary Kay Cabot reports from the Browns that they are interested in Roman as a HC via NFL Network.

Browns are interested in everyone. They also reportedly like Mike Zimmer, Ray Horton, Aaron Kromer, Dirk Koetter....etc

LOL. Just the 1st time I've heard his name tied to an NFL HC job...so far...
Originally posted by NCommand:
LOL. Just the 1st time I've heard his name tied to an NFL HC job...so far...

Supposedly Philly and Carolina have at least a passing interest in Roman too.
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Browns are interested in everyone. They also reportedly like Mike Zimmer, Ray Horton, Aaron Kromer, Dirk Koetter....etc

My wife is from Cleveland and all her family are Browns fans. I feel bad for them sometimes because it seems the city's sports teams are cursed. The Browns go through coaches like I go through coffee. I actually don't believe Greg Roman will be good as a HC in the NFL. He's a decent OC, with some great innovation in the run game, but head coaching requires an entirely different set of skills, which I'm not sure he possesses. So for their sake I hope they don't hire G Ro.
Just to expound on GOFD74's clearheaded posting, here are some more raw passing rankings:

2nd in YPA
4th in passer rating
Tied for 1st in fewest INT's thrown.

Who cares about passing yardage? Do you know that the QB who passes for the most yards in a single season has never won the Super Bowl that year? High passing yardage indicates that: 1) you have no running game, 2) your defense stinks and you are playing from behind, and 3) high turnovers which results in teams to pass the ball when behind. That's all it explains. Passing yardage does not tell you that you have an "efficient pass offense". It only means you have a high volume pass offense that's relied upon way too much.

Niners pass offense is one of the most efficient in the league. That's what the facts say. Opinions don't really matter.
what the niners do is simple. but they try and confuse with different formations.
Originally posted by real9erfan:
My wife is from Cleveland and all her family are Browns fans. I feel bad for them sometimes because it seems the city's sports teams are cursed. The Browns go through coaches like I go through coffee. I actually don't believe Greg Roman will be good as a HC in the NFL. He's a decent OC, with some great innovation in the run game, but head coaching requires an entirely different set of skills, which I'm not sure he possesses. So for their sake I hope they don't hire G Ro.

I think its the opposite, he might end up being a much better head coach than offensive coordinator. I do think it'd be better for him to go and do it at the college level first but I wouldn't be shocked if some NFL team snagged him up.
Originally posted by Schulzy:
Just to expound on GOFD74's clearheaded posting, here are some more raw passing rankings:

2nd in YPA
4th in passer rating
Tied for 1st in fewest INT's thrown.

Who cares about passing yardage? Do you know that the QB who passes for the most yards in a single season has never won the Super Bowl that year? High passing yardage indicates that: 1) you have no running game, 2) your defense stinks and you are playing from behind, and 3) high turnovers which results in teams to pass the ball when behind. That's all it explains. Passing yardage does not tell you that you have an "efficient pass offense". It only means you have a high volume pass offense that's relied upon way too much.

Niners pass offense is one of the most efficient in the league. That's what the facts say. Opinions don't really matter.

Yet statistically it is one of the worst passing offenses on 3rd down, one of the worst in the red-zone, basically the worst in the 1st quarter of a football game, the offense as a whole has one of the highest amounts of 3 and out's.................so yeah, sorry if I fail to be impressed by this incredible passing offense that still can't convert a single third down to save its life when it really NEEDS to.


Take away the statistics garnered from beating up on creampuff's such as Buffalo and Arizona and this is still the same mediocre, ineffective and unreliable offense, regardless of "efficiency" which is utter b******t, because throwing a 5 yard checkdown on 3rd and 12 improves your "efficiency" while doing jack crap for what is up on the scoreboard.


For all its "efficiency" and "high productiveness", this passing offense has been shutdown like clockwork, every 3rd game this season, along with several other games where they struggled to move the ball whatsoever.
[ Edited by Phoenix49ers on Dec 31, 2012 at 3:10 PM ]
Originally posted by real9erfan:
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Browns are interested in everyone. They also reportedly like Mike Zimmer, Ray Horton, Aaron Kromer, Dirk Koetter....etc

My wife is from Cleveland and all her family are Browns fans. I feel bad for them sometimes because it seems the city's sports teams are cursed. The Browns go through coaches like I go through coffee. I actually don't believe Greg Roman will be good as a HC in the NFL. He's a decent OC, with some great innovation in the run game, but head coaching requires an entirely different set of skills, which I'm not sure he possesses. So for their sake I hope they don't hire G Ro.

Like any coach, if you can't find a quality QB you won't be successful. I mean, Shanahan was a genius in Denver when he had Elway, then became a bum when he had Griese/Plummer/Cutler behind center...he was still a bum in Washington when he had an aging McNabb and a useless Rex Grossman/John Beck as QB, but became an overnight genius (again) now that he has RGIII. Or how much of a bum Mike McCarthy was when he was our OC in 2005 (his complete and total ineptitude was gospel truth on this board back then)...he then somehow became a football savant when he took over in Green Bay.

Pretty much tells you all you need to know about success and failure in the NFL.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by Schulzy:
Just to expound on GOFD74's clearheaded posting, here are some more raw passing rankings:

2nd in YPA
4th in passer rating
Tied for 1st in fewest INT's thrown.

Who cares about passing yardage? Do you know that the QB who passes for the most yards in a single season has never won the Super Bowl that year? High passing yardage indicates that: 1) you have no running game, 2) your defense stinks and you are playing from behind, and 3) high turnovers which results in teams to pass the ball when behind. That's all it explains. Passing yardage does not tell you that you have an "efficient pass offense". It only means you have a high volume pass offense that's relied upon way too much.

Niners pass offense is one of the most efficient in the league. That's what the facts say. Opinions don't really matter.

Yet statistically it is one of the worst passing offenses on 3rd down, one of the worst in the red-zone, basically the worst in the 1st quarter of a football game, the offense as a whole has one of the highest amounts of 3 and out's.................so yeah, sorry if I fail to be impressed by this incredible passing offense that still can't convert a single third down to save its life when it really NEEDS to.


Take away the statistics garnered from beating up on creampuff's such as Buffalo and Arizona and this is still the same mediocre, ineffective and unreliable offense, regardless of "efficiency" which is utter b******t, because throwing a 5 yard checkdown on 3rd and 12 improves your "efficiency" while doing jack crap for what is up on the scoreboard.


For all its "efficiency" and "high productiveness", this passing offense has been shutdown like clockwork, every 3rd game this season, along with several other games where they struggled to move the ball whatsoever.

You're focusing on all of the negative aspects of this offense and not any of the positives. Of course you're not going to be impressed. You act like no other team in the NFL has "beaten up" on Buffalo or Arizona or that their offensive negatives/weaknesses (3rd down %, red-zone efficiency, etc.) haven't been counter-balanced by other positives:

- total offensive yards - 11th overall (and that's with being 30th in actual offensive plays run)
- total touchdowns - 10th overall
- yards per pass - 3rd overall
- INTs thrown (only 8) - 30th overall
- yards per offensive play (rush/pass) - 3rd overall
- 1st downs by rushing - 4th overall
- total rushing yards - 4th overall
- yards per rush - 3rd overall

But clearly, you're not impressed with those positives. Your negatives are all you can speak about and focus on. So be it.
[ Edited by GhostofFredDean74 on Dec 31, 2012 at 3:30 PM ]
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
You're just looking at pure yardage....that's called "highly misleading." We don't pass often, thus the minimal passing yardage...but when we do throw, we're as effective as any team in the league. Combine that with our run game, and this is a highly productive offense. But you can choose to look at things however you wish...

You're a funny guy, I'll give you that.

It's true. We're 31st in pass attempts but 23rd in yards. Sounds fairly efficient to me.
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
I'm just stating facts as opposed to opinion. Our QBs were as effective throwing the ball as any in the league this year (top 5 in both QBR and traditional rating), but we didn't throw that much (31st in pass attempts). Facts.

Yes because QBR and QB rating tell the whole story.

You're right, the 49ers had more effective passing games than the Packers, Redskins, Giants, Cowboys and Colts. I especially love how they can make plays whenever they need them, have a nice consistent offensive flow, score when in the red-zone and convert third downs at a high percentage.

Yes, I am right that we had a more effective passing game FOR THE ENTIRE SEASON OVERALL than those teams (pesky facts). But I never said we could "make plays whenever we need them," or that we have a "nice consistent offensive flow," or that we "score in the red-zone and convert third downs at a high percentage." Two things can be equally true...we can have a quantifiably effective passing game AND still not do those things you mentioned.

If you want to argue those other points, we can. But that doesn't change the facts that OVERALL, when we threw the ball (which wasn't that often), we did so VERY effectively. Very effectively, however, doesn't mean ALL THE TIME/EVERY TIME. It means, "in the aggregate," this team was more effective throwing the football than many people on this board are giving it credit for.

I would argue that if we threw the ball more (and run less, and bring in those various personnel packages less), we might've had more success on 3rd downs, we probably would've had a better offensive flow than we did which might've made us more effective in the red-zone. But we chose a different path, to rely more on the run game, multiple personnel packages/formations, the occasional big pass play and a smothering defense.

So far, that formula has give us a record of 24-7-1, two NFC west titles and one appearance in the NFC title game in 2 years while being one playoff win away from another shot at a Super Bowl (I know, I know, more inconvenient facts). But hey, if those results aren't acceptable to you, that's cool. I'm pretty happy with that myself, but I'm probably just weird.
Great post, GOFD!!!

Yes, your logical reasoning does make you weird on Niner Talk.

Please don't let that deter you, though.