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QB "tells" - other observations.

I remember an old interview with R White and he said certain players have certain tendencies when doing a particular thing. Could be one of 'em.

- 98
The qb had two plays to call, and it appears to lattitude to adjust. When they needed 4 yards and Janoris Jenkins was 15 yards off the receiver, Steve Young would call a hot read, where basically it is a pitch and catch, he calls i am throwing it to WR, who is uncovered, the WR will get 5 plus yards YAC.

Young also had the center goose play to a tee. If a player was not lilned up over the center, he would pinch the Center in the but, the center would snap the ball and stever young would run right behind him for an easy 3-5 yards.

The qb's need to take anything the defense gives them forcing the defense to defend those plays.
Originally posted by susweel:
Originally posted by JiksJuicy:
Originally posted by susweel:
Originally posted by NCommand:
It's a good question...I wonder if anyone here will rewatch the game in this detail to see if they can pick up on anything. I was genuinely impressed with how the Rams covered VD and Walker (3 times) on the same play that worked ALL of last year. That is some detailed coaching right there. I'm talking about the play where VD blocks, goes to the ground and runs wide open to the other side of the field for the pass back. I don't have the technical name for that play.

Fisher is a good defensive coach and he ate Roman's lunch that day.

I know many disagree, but I feel game plan was legit. We had a 10 point lead and should have won. Lack of execution on plays called is what killed us. Kaep. misses the pitch, runs for a safety, Walker misses a catch, Oline doesn't jump, F.g's instead of T.ds, and if Akers executes a FG we would have won. To me it comes down to poor execution.

Sure plays shouldn't have been called, but if we executed anyone of these above plays, we win. We were in position to win, the game plan was boring but we had the game in our hands. It was costly mistakes by the players that cost us this game. Coaching didn't help, but again execute the plays called, we win.

Im sorry I have to disagree anytime you only score 13 points and only average 2 yards per carry by your RBs the game plan is not legit.

Pats beat the Rams 45-7. I'd say there isn't much reason to think, with all of the weapons we have, we can't score in that general neighborhood. Like the OP pointed out, why can Fischer and their defense execute against us (even our trick plays) and he/they couldn't for the Pats? The fact that he did it twice to us in 3 weeks is another bad sign of predictable play calling. I certainly don't dismiss the piss poor other reasons for why we lost but this game should not have been close. Period.
Originally posted by sfninerfanMax:
It is possible we are tipping off the opposing D somehow. I remember way back in 1988--the 49ers had just lost 6-3 to the raiders, the Niners were down in the dumps with their record of 6-5. Raiders DL Howie Long in the paper afterwards said the Niners O Line always gave away the play ahead of time, the Raiders knew what was coming. After that game the Niners never lost again and won the Super Bowl. I think they fixed the problem!

Originally posted by MarkD:
On a play in the 4th quarter where it was a roll right and throw back to Vernon. Before the play started VD was lined up leaning that direction and his feet were pointed in toward the center. Dead give away as to where he intends to go.

Good observation!
Originally posted by sfninerfanMax:
It is possible we are tipping off the opposing D somehow. I remember way back in 1988--the 49ers had just lost 6-3 to the raiders, the Niners were down in the dumps with their record of 6-5. Raiders DL Howie Long in the paper afterwards said the Niners O Line always gave away the play ahead of time, the Raiders knew what was coming. After that game the Niners never lost again and won the Super Bowl. I think they fixed the problem!

Must be nice to have that kind of detailed coaching and execution built into the game plan for each opponent! Nice...
  • SaksV
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 874
I tried doing my usual 4-Watch Formula. I watch the game live Sunday, then once each following day until Thursday. Then I turn my attention to who we're playing that weekend.

This time I couldn't...I watched the game two and a half times and might not watch it again...too frustrating
Here's what I noticed...

Kap tends to look at his wristband longer or check it on his way to the line when it's a pass........I noticed this in the Cardinals game actually..
The hand licking thing seems to be random to my eyes...he licks his hands when going in shotgun often, doesn't matter if it's run/pass. Under center he doesn't do it as much but not enough to call it a habit.

Play-action passes were not executed very well by the QB or RBs. The Rams LBs & DBs were able to stay in coverage comfortably. (Conversely, there were a few times where I noticed Donte Whitner got absolutely fooled on play fakes to Steven Jackson. Caught him doing the slide-and-bail a few times...)

Bruce Miller's shifts can also sometimes give away the play call. When he shifts to a particular gap, we run behind that regardless of the action up front (trap, stretch, lead dive scheme). When he over extends his motion, it's often a play-action (a poor play fake at that)

On running plays to the outside, Vernon Davis was cheating toward the man/area he was supposed to block, he does this quite a bit. Sometimes it works because it causes the defender to shift a bit and gives us a chance to change the play (when Alex was playing).....

Mike Iupati had an unenthusiastic performance..just thought I'd throw that in...
[ Edited by SaksV on Dec 5, 2012 at 2:51 PM ]
Originally posted by SaksV:
I tried doing my usual 4-Watch Formula. I watch the game live Sunday, then once each following day until Thursday. Then I turn my attention to who we're playing that weekend.

This time I couldn't...I watched the game two and a half times and might not watch it again...too frustrating
Here's what I noticed...

Kap tends to look at his wristband longer or check it on his way to the line when it's a pass........I noticed this in the Cardinals game actually..
The hand licking thing seems to be random to my eyes...he licks his hands when going in shotgun often, doesn't matter if it's run/pass. Under center he doesn't do it as much but not enough to call it a habit.

Play-action passes were not executed very well by the QB or RBs. The Rams LBs & DBs were able to stay in coverage comfortably. (Conversely, there were a few times where I noticed Donte Whitner got absolutely fooled on play fakes to Steven Jackson. Caught him doing the slide-and-bail a few times...)

Bruce Miller's shifts can also sometimes give away the play call. When he shifts to a particular gap, we run behind that regardless of the action up front (trap, stretch, lead dive scheme). When he over extends his motion, it's often a play-action (a poor play fake at that)

On running plays to the outside, Vernon Davis was cheating toward the man/area he was supposed to block, he does this quite a bit. Sometimes it works because it causes the defender to shift a bit and gives us a chance to change the play (when Alex was playing).....

Mike Iupati had an unenthusiastic performance..just thought I'd throw that in...

Finally, some additional great analysis! Great set of eyes you have there! I couldn't get past 2 times either.

I recommend watching them here as well (coaches film is a must-see) if we have it:

http://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/niners/166923-offensive-defensive-drives-chicago/
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by susweel:
Originally posted by JiksJuicy:
Originally posted by susweel:
Originally posted by NCommand:
It's a good question...I wonder if anyone here will rewatch the game in this detail to see if they can pick up on anything. I was genuinely impressed with how the Rams covered VD and Walker (3 times) on the same play that worked ALL of last year. That is some detailed coaching right there. I'm talking about the play where VD blocks, goes to the ground and runs wide open to the other side of the field for the pass back. I don't have the technical name for that play.

Fisher is a good defensive coach and he ate Roman's lunch that day.

I know many disagree, but I feel game plan was legit. We had a 10 point lead and should have won. Lack of execution on plays called is what killed us. Kaep. misses the pitch, runs for a safety, Walker misses a catch, Oline doesn't jump, F.g's instead of T.ds, and if Akers executes a FG we would have won. To me it comes down to poor execution.

Sure plays shouldn't have been called, but if we executed anyone of these above plays, we win. We were in position to win, the game plan was boring but we had the game in our hands. It was costly mistakes by the players that cost us this game. Coaching didn't help, but again execute the plays called, we win.

Im sorry I have to disagree anytime you only score 13 points and only average 2 yards per carry by your RBs the game plan is not legit.

Pats beat the Rams 45-7. I'd say there isn't much reason to think, with all of the weapons we have, we can't score in that general neighborhood. Like the OP pointed out, why can Fischer and their defense execute against us (even our trick plays) and he/they couldn't for the Pats? The fact that he did it twice to us in 3 weeks is another bad sign of predictable play calling. I certainly don't dismiss the piss poor other reasons for why we lost but this game should not have been close. Period.

Thier offense is crazy. If people think our running offenses is pretty nutty, they have an equally creative passing attack. This year they run the ball well too. They have a power house machine offense while we are still working kinks out out of ours. We have a game plan and stick to it. When it goes awry, we seem to be lost.

The Pats plan too, but also can change it up and attack based on what the D shows. Bellichek and Brady have been doing this longer then Harbaugh and Kaepernick. They may be paired just as long as Fisher has been coaching. So they can adjust to what Fisher throws at them scheme wise.

As far as offense is concerned, those are the big boys. Same can be said about Fisher and his defenses. He's been around longer the JH.
[ Edited by Young2Rice on Dec 5, 2012 at 8:09 PM ]
Originally posted by NCommand:
Pats beat the Rams 45-7. I'd say there isn't much reason to think, with all of the weapons we have, we can't score in that general neighborhood. Like the OP pointed out, why can Fischer and their defense execute against us (even our trick plays) and he/they couldn't for the Pats? The fact that he did it twice to us in 3 weeks is another bad sign of predictable play calling. I certainly don't dismiss the piss poor other reasons for why we lost but this game should not have been close. Period.


Comparing games between teams who have played the same opponent can create the most bizarre conclusions conceivable.

Those same Patriots lost a similar game to the Cardinals. This is what happens in the NFL. I could go on and on...
  • fly15
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 4,225
Originally posted by 80849er4life:
The real question is....why are we losing yo crappy teams this year???? Good thing we are beating the good ones hahaha

Akers
Gore was almost 5ypc in the 1st qtr if I recall correctly, then ended up going 2ypc and stuffed repeatedly. Kaepernick also was 8-9 on the first 9 attempts. I'm still thinking that Fisher figured it out and told his D. If you can take the unknown out the play there's less variables and you can just attack which is what he did.
Originally posted by BrianGO:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Pats beat the Rams 45-7. I'd say there isn't much reason to think, with all of the weapons we have, we can't score in that general neighborhood. Like the OP pointed out, why can Fischer and their defense execute against us (even our trick plays) and he/they couldn't for the Pats? The fact that he did it twice to us in 3 weeks is another bad sign of predictable play calling. I certainly don't dismiss the piss poor other reasons for why we lost but this game should not have been close. Period.


Comparing games between teams who have played the same opponent can create the most bizarre conclusions conceivable.

Those same Patriots lost a similar game to the Cardinals. This is what happens in the NFL. I could go on and on...

Good point Y2R re: the state of offense at this juncture. My point was re: overall talent compared to the Pats. I'd say we come pretty close to equal talent on most positions but 13 points is all we can muster...23 at most?

But as to your points re: match ups, some teams (Vikings, Rams, Giants, Hawks, etc.) just match up better with us. We get that...

But that doesn't excuse a game plan that can't get the ball in the hands of VD (like we did against the Bears, early and often), or only taking one deep shot all day long, or running into a brick wall, a screen pass, more slants, a post pattern, etc. Use the WCO principles of deep WR, to TE to RB/FB for the check-downs. Our perpetual offense designed to target one primary receiver (see post #217 as in the Roman is a mad scientist thread) as an example. The point here is that we don't seem to be tailoring our play calling to our strengths, are too conservative (and cute), appear to be coaching down the QB's, have little, if any situational awareness, don't target or exploit mismatches, etc. We are 1.75 years into this offense and by now, we should be seeing MUCH better game planning, in-game adjustments, and much more production no matter who's at the QB helm. Period.
Originally posted by DonJulio:
Originally posted by cwilson830:
The Rams knew what we were doing because our play calling was obvious. Until the bonehead Ginn pitch playcall.

We were playing checkers while the Rams were playing chess.


I hear Bill Belichick is pretty good at chess. We might be in trouble.
Originally posted by gavindirishmen:
I hear Bill Belichick is pretty good at chess. We might be in trouble.


Not really. It's just that Tom Brady is VERY good at checkers.