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Weekly Greg Cossell Analysis

Originally posted by Mr.Mcgibblets:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by dj43:
This guy would have hated Joe Montana.

Yet Joe was rated as the 4th best player ever. Most people believed this about Joe from watching him play. Those same people also believed Joe's awareness of the game was much better than any QB. Joe also proved it by going onto a team with far lesser talent and having immediate success. Not sure where you think Cossell would have hated Montana.

Joe's career came and went... very successfully. Alex could still play and play at a high level for several more years. It is strange and inappropriate from the start to compare Montana's finished career and Smith's unfinished career.

No one is making any comparison?

But your statement about Smith, let's discuss. I think he has already shown he can play at a high level, in certain areas of QB responsibilities and abilities. Although, still somewhat inconsistent.
However, there are still some minor things that will have major impacts vs only a handful of teams that he plays at a low level that may keep us from winning a Superbowl.
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
Originally posted by NineFourNiner:
If it is so easy to dink and dunk for 18-19 and 3 TDs, why doesn't every journeyman QB do it? And often?

No one seems to have an answer for these questions.

I can only speak for myself in answering this, but....


1. I don't think its "easy" to dink and dunk for 18-19. However, that doesn't mean that Smith isn't very limited (pocket presence/accurcy on interm/long throws)

2. I think the ego alone of ALL nfl QBs (journey man or elite) makes them take some tough shots down field (throwing lower percentage throws) Smith doesn't have much of an ego.

3. He's allowed to dink and dunk against teams like the Cards, because our D is so dominant and so is our run game.

4. As this season has shown, we are in big trouble when we face well balanced teams that can score.

Uh...isn't ANYONE it trouble when they face well balanced teams that can score?

To a degree, but if a team can score and play good D, Alex really struggles because you take him out of his game (i.e. Vikings and Giants). The Jets could of been very similar result if their O didn't suck so bad.

In a nutshell, I just think Smith has some serious fatal flaws in his game. They are hidden because of the level of talent around him. The thing that bothers me is what good is a QB that can win when things go well, but sucks when they dont? That's almost worst that sucking all the time, because it breeds false hope.

.............

I guess we'll just agree to disagree. I'd rather have a QB that gets us to the playoffs with a chance to win it all compared to a QB that just sucks all the time and we have no chance.

Call me crazy.

You're kind of missing my point, Marvin. I'm not saying I'd want to stick with a sucky QB, but at least you know what you have so you can move on....

Also, I'm ont sure if it's Smith "getting us to the playoffs." I think there are a lot of QBs that could do what he did last year. I do admit however, that his performance in the Saints game was second to none. With that said, he squandard a lot of opportunity in that game as well.


Edit: I'd bet Andy Dalton could of done what Smith did last year, maybe better.


Edit 2: Sometimes I wonder if we'll ever be able to have an honest dialoge about Smith on this forum. There is just no need to twist arguments or opinions.
[ Edited by Oakland-Niner on Nov 1, 2012 at 2:00 PM ]
All, see edits to post #1 of this thread. Let's try to keep it at that. No need to muddy an Alex Smith thread after a very successful game.
Originally posted by DonnieDarko:
Originally posted by McLovinAlexSmith:
Originally posted by dj43:
This guy would have hated Joe Montana.

Yes because Alex and Joe are similar. Smh

i dont even think alex's 4 best games combined will out-do Joe's 4 superbowl game stats

I can't speak for all 4 without the stats in front of me but Alex has had the two best games in Niner history from a QB Rating perspective in just his last 4 starts (vs. Buffalo and vs. Arizona). In each game he had a QB rating over 157.

I'm not saying he's Joe. Joe was CLEARLY better, but I think your comment is flawed.
Originally posted by Joecool:
Hated or not, Cossell has a highly credible perspective. I really don't want to turn the Alex Smith thread into a nit-picky thread, especially after he plays well and our team literally dominated and slapped around a fairly respected defense team.

I would like to use this thread to discuss things the team can improve upon per the weekly comments of Greg Cossell.


Arizona Game Analysis:
http://murphmac.blogspot.com/2012/11/1101-nfl-films-senior-producer-greg.html

  1. Smith: only threw 3 passes more than 10 yards. Not one over 20. Can't live like that week to week. Still concerned about the 49ers explosiveness.
  2. Smith: Great throw, incredibly accurate to Crabtree for that first TD.
  3. ARI offense is just bad. Combine that with the 49ers defense and there you have it.
  4. Aldon and Brooks are the most athletic OLBs in a 3-4 in the NFL
  5. Crabtree: looked very quick after the catch

I'll respond to the comments in order.

1. As is S.O.P., he took what the D gave him. THIS TIME, his WRs balled out, which helped tremendously. No one has ever suggested that the offense intends to "like that week to week" and our gameplans speak for themselves in this regard. Finally, if the RBs ripping off 7 yard + runs and the WRs gaining massive YAC is not explosive enough (disregarding what we've done in prior weeks), then I don't know what to tell this guy.

2. It was a good throw. However, I give Crabs credit, too. I do think that the two are developing a chemistry. Let's hope it continues.

3. - 5. Well duh.

Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by DonnieDarko:
Originally posted by McLovinAlexSmith:
Originally posted by dj43:
This guy would have hated Joe Montana.

Yes because Alex and Joe are similar. Smh

i dont even think alex's 4 best games combined will out-do Joe's 4 superbowl game stats

I can't speak for all 4 without the stats in front of me but Alex has had the two best games in Niner history from a QB Rating perspective in just his last 4 starts (vs. Buffalo and vs. Arizona). In each game he had a QB rating over 157.

I'm not saying he's Joe. Joe was CLEARLY better, but I think your comment is flawed.

i know..that's why i said 4 games. and i don't think that stat took into account joe's playoff stats
Originally posted by DonnieDarko:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by DonnieDarko:
Originally posted by McLovinAlexSmith:
Originally posted by dj43:
This guy would have hated Joe Montana.

Yes because Alex and Joe are similar. Smh

i dont even think alex's 4 best games combined will out-do Joe's 4 superbowl game stats

I can't speak for all 4 without the stats in front of me but Alex has had the two best games in Niner history from a QB Rating perspective in just his last 4 starts (vs. Buffalo and vs. Arizona). In each game he had a QB rating over 157.

I'm not saying he's Joe. Joe was CLEARLY better, but I think your comment is flawed.

i know..that's why i said 4 games. and i don't think that stat took into account joe's playoff stats

Are we talking about Joe Montana the linebacker ?

Originally posted by NineFourNiner:
I'll respond to the comments in order.

1. As is S.O.P., he took what the D gave him. THIS TIME, his WRs balled out, which helped tremendously. No one has ever suggested that the offense intends to "like that week to week" and our gameplans speak for themselves in this regard. Finally, if the RBs ripping off 7 yard + runs and the WRs gaining massive YAC is not explosive enough (disregarding what we've done in prior weeks), then I don't know what to tell this guy.

2. It was a good throw. However, I give Crabs credit, too. I do think that the two are developing a chemistry. Let's hope it continues.

3. - 5. Well duh.


Yeah, I thought the same thing and correlated what we did after the catch to being explosive. But, then I thought if we were in ARI shoes, I think it is safe to agree that ARI just had a bad game in the tackling department and a team can't rely on that much YAC as a consistent avenue for being explosive.

Explosive means, to me, that at any given point in a game, we can sort of dial up a play and be like, "Alright! Enough of this s**t! Let's hit their Defense up big and let em know we can do it whenever we want." That is what great teams are able to do. When it calls for it, they stop playing games and start firing the big guns. We really haven't shown that ability or intimidation.

That's what it means to me to have that explosiveness in our back pocket.
Originally posted by Joecool:
Yeah, I thought the same thing and correlated what we did after the catch to being explosive. But, then I thought if we were in ARI shoes, I think it is safe to agree that ARI just had a bad game in the tackling department and a team can't rely on that much YAC as a consistent avenue for being explosive.

Explosive means, to me, that at any given point in a game, we can sort of dial up a play and be like, "Alright! Enough of this s**t! Let's hit their Defense up big and let em know we can do it whenever we want." That is what great teams are able to do. When it calls for it, they stop playing games and start firing the big guns. We really haven't shown that ability or intimidation.

That's what it means to me to have that explosiveness in our back pocket.

I don't this occurs in the "flipping of the switch" manner in which you seem to. However, you know what play in our arsenal does this? That seam route to VD. Money.
Originally posted by NineFourNiner:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Yeah, I thought the same thing and correlated what we did after the catch to being explosive. But, then I thought if we were in ARI shoes, I think it is safe to agree that ARI just had a bad game in the tackling department and a team can't rely on that much YAC as a consistent avenue for being explosive.

Explosive means, to me, that at any given point in a game, we can sort of dial up a play and be like, "Alright! Enough of this s**t! Let's hit their Defense up big and let em know we can do it whenever we want." That is what great teams are able to do. When it calls for it, they stop playing games and start firing the big guns. We really haven't shown that ability or intimidation.

That's what it means to me to have that explosiveness in our back pocket.

I don't this occurs in the "flipping of the switch" manner in which you seem to. However, you know what play in our arsenal does this? That seam route to VD. Money.

I don't mean only one play. It can be a certain portion of the game where we begin to feed our best talents: VD, Moss, Crabs and start making the defenses heads spin.

Personally, I don't think the VD seam route shows domination. It mostly only takes advantage when there's specifically that mismatch on VD.

Of course, you probably know I was going to get at this but it mainly has to do with the QB and how he sees the field. If our QB settles down and deciphers the defense on his drop, then is when "there's always a player open" calmness comes into play. Guys like Joe and to a lesser extent Steve were able to quickly scan and pick apart any hole in a defense.

It is the QB who mostly controls the explosiveness and picking apart of a defense.
Alex is an integral part of helping the niners win games. Is he someone we can ride his back on? I don't think so. To win the SB you have to win at the least three games and will have to face some of the best QBs in at least 2 of the three games. In some situations the odds are increased. against one dimensional teams like the packers and saints, as explosive as they are, with our D we can shut them down just the niners did with Marino in the SB with JM at the helm.

Against teams like the Giants and Vikings, they have a balanced offense and very good D. When our running game is not established we suffer, Alex tries to force it. When the running game is working it helps Alex. Whether you like it or not, teams like the Texans, Giants, etc, respect Alex, but they do not fear him and will dare Alex to beat them. Not that Alex can't, but can he do it three games in a row during the playoffs. Some have brought up Joe, teams feared him and while Joe took what others gave him with dinks and dunks, lest not forget how many times he went down the middle on a deep seam route to the various TE's, first Charles Young, then Russ Francis and then Brent Jones. He also went deep many a times to Freddie Solomon and Jerry Rice. Yes, Joe had great talent around him, but not in the first year he started and won his first SB. Remember Earl Cooper? Yes there was Clark, Solomon, and Young, but they weren't any better than what is on the rooster now in as far as talent goes

If Alex is to win it all, he needs to cause fear, then when you add the WR getting better with the YAC and the already great running game, then we need not worry. right now Alex will win his fair share, but can he play high thru the three games in the playoffs where teams are less likely to have weaknesses. The Cards and Seahawks know us well as we are division rivals, but as good as their defense is, they have no offense. In fact the cards would lose if they faced the Pats again, because the pats have reestablished the run. Green Bay and Detroit were one dimensional as well, Bills and Jets...need I say more. Still, good teams win the games they are supposed to and the niners have.

I do hold out hope that the vikings game was an anomoly where we took them lightly and that Roman with his bad game plan in the giants game along with possibly AS injured finger a thing to do with our tremendous failure against them. The biggest test will be against the Bears and the Pats. The Pats are not the same team that the cards played so I wouldn't use them as a borameter.

I did like the AS first TD to MC, he needs to do more of that, throw before the db is aware and where only the wr can get it and trust the wr. Also like that he found Moss who was not his 1rst or 2nd read. Still he needs to get rid of the ball when he realizes nothing is there, I don't care if his stats suffers, I rather he throw it away (meaning out of bounds) than take the sack. Finally, when he gets that happy feet feeling - run forrest run.
Nice post WildBill
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by DonnieDarko:
Originally posted by McLovinAlexSmith:
Originally posted by dj43:
This guy would have hated Joe Montana.

Yes because Alex and Joe are similar. Smh

i dont even think alex's 4 best games combined will out-do Joe's 4 superbowl game stats

I can't speak for all 4 without the stats in front of me but Alex has had the two best games in Niner history from a QB Rating perspective in just his last 4 starts (vs. Buffalo and vs. Arizona). In each game he had a QB rating over 157.

I'm not saying he's Joe. Joe was CLEARLY better, but I think your comment is flawed.

AS had a great game in those two which is not easy against any NFL team, but you still need to consider the context-it was against the Bills and the Cards. As long as the running game is functioning above board Alex can do his job. This year, when it isn't, he struggles.
  • Nes49
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 5,321
Why does his opinion matter so much?
  • fryet
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 2,814
Here are my thoughts on the game. First off, this is the perfect game plan for the 49ers that maximize their strengths. Run more than pass, and focus on short, higher percentage throws. 2nd and 6 looks a lot better than 2nd and 10. Rarely throw the ball deep (which again risks 2nd and 10). Basically, you pass for enough yardage so that you can feel comfortable running the ball on the next down.

I don't believe that Alex is an effective deep ball thrower, but he can be effective with intermediate throws (the best example being Buffalo). I think in our 2 losses, the 49ers were asking him to play a game that is not his strength. Some on this board will use that and say he isn't that good, or he isn't elite. I think you just play to your strengths, and who cares if he is elite. Let's use his abilities to the maximum instead of trying to make him Drew Brees.

The final thing is so obvious that I think most are missing it. His receivers DID get a ton of YAC. Why is that? Well, Alex didn't throw the ball high so that they had to jump for it, nor did he throw it at their feet so they had to dive for it. Neither did he throw it behind them, so they had to wait for the DB to catch up. All of those things Alex used to do routinely, and the end result was very little YAC. If Alex can continue to throw short and put the ball where YAC is possible, then our offense has improved significantly. Forget about whether he is elite. Be happy that we have an effective QB and that combined with our running game and defense, a championship is most certainly within reach.
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