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Receivers need to attack the ball!



Originally posted by Kauaiguy:
Originally posted by hofer36:
Originally posted by jreff22:
Tight ends
46-Delanie Walker: He played 21 snaps and did not catch a pass. He should've tried to break up a deep pass from Smith that resulted in Amukamara's interception.
http://www.csnbayarea.com/football-san-francisco-niners/niners-talk/49ers-review-vs-Giants-Wide-receivers-ti?blockID=789473&feedID=5936

look at the picture on the maiocco link posted here---akamura is up air and walker's feet are still on the ground

i couldnt count how many times someone has posted that smith should not be so autious and should give the receivers a chance to make a play on the ball

well on this play he did and walker didnt do it

his 2nd and 3rd ints were horrible decisions and throws but this 1st one is one of the risks you take when you throw downfield, and is more likely to be a pick when the receiver fails to make a play on the ball as walker failed here
Yes, and who had the better shot at catching the ball? Even if Walker had jumped up, he would have had to fight Akamura for the ball and my guess is he would have lost anyway or the pass would have been incomplete. The point is the pass was off target and favored the defender.

In no way is that pass off target, it was put in a spot where the receiver could make a play on it. Joecool even mentions it would have hit him in stride.
[ Edited by paperplanemedia on Oct 16, 2012 at 1:32 PM ]
Originally posted by Kauaiguy:
Yes, and who had the better shot at catching the ball? Even if Walker had jumped up, he would have had to fight Akamura for the ball and my guess is he would have lost anyway or the pass would have been incomplete. The point is the pass was off target and favored the defender.

Haha, no.. actually Walker was in front of Amukamara.. and slipped to the side and behind. If he's have just turned like I said at the 38 yd line, it would have been Walker standing in front of Amukamara and he would have had the positioning to make a play. OR... at least rip the damn DB down to the ground and take the O.P.I.
Seriously pick a better pass to base it off of, because honestly where the ball was positioned and where DW stopped running, that would of been unlikely to be broken up, it was underthrown and had too much hang time, I wouldn't like the throw in the first place with the rolling coverage, I'll stick with the cautious stuff, because one INT and Alex totally lost any confidence he came into candlestick with.

the kind of passes I want to see more of are back shoulder sideline, like to KW except that one was kind of lobbed up too, but good outcome in single coverage, or sideline toe tappers, if he starts threading the needle and then the wr's still don't do s**t, then ok we just stick with play design to get guys open. It's frustrating because Alex has all the physical tools and the brain to read D's and make passes like some of the upper tier guys, it's almost like he isn't allowing himself too and he rarely does outside of huge mismatches with VD on LB or Safety. Or guys with a step or three down field. But I've seen crabs leap I'm the back of the EZ pretty high and bring in a couple TD's and I have full confidence Randy can do it, we just need to get to the point where we will make those throws, I sure hope we do, the running gmaeand Defense can only take us so far against guys like Eli or Aaron in the playoffs.
Originally posted by jreff22:

This definitely shows the S was coming down towards the ball and Walker was running up looking at the ball. He didn't see the S coming and the S had a cut-off type of interception. The S had prime position on that ball.

What I don't get is how could a play for a wheel route be thrown like a punt. You gotta zip that in there.

Yes, yes, the point of this is to talk about our WR fighting for balls but how can one do so if he didn't see or expect the S to be there no different than Alex saw or expect him to be there? This ball was definitely badly thrown more than anything.

Our WR's do fight for balls.

Ginn did it last year vs BAL.
Delanie did a few years ago.
Vernon has done it.
Crabtree is very aggressive at attacking the ball.
Moss and Manningham already have a proven track record.

Too bad we don't try or place these types of throws better.
Originally posted by jcashen87:
because honestly where the ball was positioned and where DW stopped running

Exactly. where he stopped running. That was one more reason to be angry with Walker. He had plenty of time to locate and track the ball. Yet, he essentially runs himself away from ideal positioning to make a play on the ball. In other words, what I'm saying is... Walker was in fine position at one point to pull a basketball move and post up in front of Amukamara before going up for the pass. Instead, he takes steps to the side and nearly behind him... so this makes the INT so much more easy.

I don't understand why this is so difficult for people.
Originally posted by Mr.Mcgibblets:
Originally posted by jcashen87:
because honestly where the ball was positioned and where DW stopped running

Exactly. where he stopped running. That was one more reason to be angry with Walker. He had plenty of time to locate and track the ball. Yet, he essentially runs himself away from ideal positioning to make a play on the ball. In other words, what I'm saying is... Walker was in fine position at one point to pull a basketball move and post up in front of Amukamara before going up for the pass. Instead, he takes steps to the side and nearly behind him... so this makes the INT so much more easy.

I don't understand why this is so difficult for people.
I just don't think it's as easy as it looks, and he's not relatively tall or springy, he could have made a better effort sure, I just think 8/10 times that ball is picked when a slower short blocking tight end is the one who has to stop on a dime turn and jump to break it up from a quicker more nimble corner who's jumping and tracking the ball better. It was underthrown, if it would of been thrown harder it may have gone out of bounds or the DB over the top could of had a chance on it. Just not a good decision IMO but I think he may have been fooled, thinking he would of rolled to rio in midfield.
The pass didn't work out, both are to blame...that INT i can live with. The other two made me sick
if you see an INT about to happen, tackle the f**ker that's about to catch it! offensive PI call >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> INT. I'm just gonna assume that all NFL coaches tell receivers this.
Originally posted by jcashen87:
I just don't think it's as easy as it looks, and he's not relatively tall or springy, he could have made a better effort sure, I just think 8/10 times that ball is picked when a slower short blocking tight end is the one who has to stop on a dime turn and jump to break it up from a quicker more nimble corner who's jumping and tracking the ball better. It was underthrown, if it would of been thrown harder it may have gone out of bounds or the DB over the top could of had a chance on it. Just not a good decision IMO but I think he may have been fooled, thinking he would of rolled to rio in midfield.

Oh Alex definitely thought the bolded. That's why the ball had air under it. He lofts those up well to the wheel routes... only this time, the DB swiveled back to Walker.

Still... you make Walker sound like he can't count to potato when it comes to tracking and making a play for the pass.
It was clearly obvious watching that game that the Giants receivers were making plays for the ball that the niners receivers were not. Cruz and Hixon's effort alone put the entire niner offense to shame.
Originally posted by Kauaiguy:
Originally posted by hofer36:
Originally posted by jreff22:
Tight ends
46-Delanie Walker: He played 21 snaps and did not catch a pass. He should've tried to break up a deep pass from Smith that resulted in Amukamara's interception.
http://www.csnbayarea.com/football-san-francisco-niners/niners-talk/49ers-review-vs-Giants-Wide-receivers-ti?blockID=789473&feedID=5936

look at the picture on the maiocco link posted here---akamura is up air and walker's feet are still on the ground

i couldnt count how many times someone has posted that smith should not be so autious and should give the receivers a chance to make a play on the ball

well on this play he did and walker didnt do it

his 2nd and 3rd ints were horrible decisions and throws but this 1st one is one of the risks you take when you throw downfield, and is more likely to be a pick when the receiver fails to make a play on the ball as walker failed here
Yes, and who had the better shot at catching the ball? Even if Walker had jumped up, he would have had to fight Akamura for the ball and my guess is he would have lost anyway or the pass would have been incomplete. The point is the pass was off target and favored the defender.


so you're saying if a pass is off target the receiver shouldnt fight for the ball
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
The pass didn't work out, both are to blame...that INT i can live with. The other two made me sick


there is a 3rd element---great defense by the giants....as noted by joe cool in post #184 above, neither smith nor walker expected akamura to be there...it looks like the giants successfully disguised there zone coverage....if akamura follows manningham this is a big gainer...even the elite qbs get fooled, see the bowman pick of rodgers in game 1
Originally posted by hofer36:
Originally posted by Kauaiguy:
Originally posted by hofer36:
Originally posted by jreff22:
Tight ends
46-Delanie Walker: He played 21 snaps and did not catch a pass. He should've tried to break up a deep pass from Smith that resulted in Amukamara's interception.
http://www.csnbayarea.com/football-san-francisco-niners/niners-talk/49ers-review-vs-Giants-Wide-receivers-ti?blockID=789473&feedID=5936

look at the picture on the maiocco link posted here---akamura is up air and walker's feet are still on the ground

i couldnt count how many times someone has posted that smith should not be so autious and should give the receivers a chance to make a play on the ball

well on this play he did and walker didnt do it

his 2nd and 3rd ints were horrible decisions and throws but this 1st one is one of the risks you take when you throw downfield, and is more likely to be a pick when the receiver fails to make a play on the ball as walker failed here
Yes, and who had the better shot at catching the ball? Even if Walker had jumped up, he would have had to fight Akamura for the ball and my guess is he would have lost anyway or the pass would have been incomplete. The point is the pass was off target and favored the defender.


so you're saying if a pass is off target the receiver shouldnt fight for the ball

The bigger question is, did Walker know Akamura was going to be there?

Also:

84-Randy Moss: He played just 17 of the team's 61 offensive snaps in the game and seemed to do a good job of winning off the line of scrimmage against CB Prince Amukamara. Showed he can still be a deep threat. . . Only three passes went his way.


Alex Smith needs to stop this inner circle crap and trust a HOF player. In fact, Randy Moss should not be required to "earn" Alex Smith's trust.

Originally posted by Mr.Mcgibblets:
Originally posted by jcashen87:
I just don't think it's as easy as it looks, and he's not relatively tall or springy, he could have made a better effort sure, I just think 8/10 times that ball is picked when a slower short blocking tight end is the one who has to stop on a dime turn and jump to break it up from a quicker more nimble corner who's jumping and tracking the ball better. It was underthrown, if it would of been thrown harder it may have gone out of bounds or the DB over the top could of had a chance on it. Just not a good decision IMO but I think he may have been fooled, thinking he would of rolled to rio in midfield.

Oh Alex definitely thought the bolded. That's why the ball had air under it. He lofts those up well to the wheel routes... only this time, the DB swiveled back to Walker.

Still... you make Walker sound like he can't count to potato when it comes to tracking and making a play for the pass.

I'm not really saying that, I'm saying I think it gets picked anyway, that Delanie just isn't the most ideal person to go up and fight for it, especially not this year. And that he may not have made the difference anyway. It doesn't absolve him from blame, it just is what it is. In this case I'm looking more at the QB for throwing a bad ball and getting fooled. Sit happens though, he will have his shots to redeem himself, I don't know if Delanie will have many shots to redeem his lackluster play this season though. Our wheel routes and slants etc were being called out Sunday like a jimmy raye play book, I want to see more HB passes, screens, and some throws to moss and Mario, so we have bigger problems IMO than guys not attacking the ball, thee types of throws aren't even Attempted much in our offense.
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by hofer36:
Originally posted by Kauaiguy:
Originally posted by hofer36:
Originally posted by jreff22:
Tight ends
46-Delanie Walker: He played 21 snaps and did not catch a pass. He should've tried to break up a deep pass from Smith that resulted in Amukamara's interception.
http://www.csnbayarea.com/football-san-francisco-niners/niners-talk/49ers-review-vs-Giants-Wide-receivers-ti?blockID=789473&feedID=5936

look at the picture on the maiocco link posted here---akamura is up air and walker's feet are still on the ground

i couldnt count how many times someone has posted that smith should not be so autious and should give the receivers a chance to make a play on the ball

well on this play he did and walker didnt do it

his 2nd and 3rd ints were horrible decisions and throws but this 1st one is one of the risks you take when you throw downfield, and is more likely to be a pick when the receiver fails to make a play on the ball as walker failed here
Yes, and who had the better shot at catching the ball? Even if Walker had jumped up, he would have had to fight Akamura for the ball and my guess is he would have lost anyway or the pass would have been incomplete. The point is the pass was off target and favored the defender.


so you're saying if a pass is off target the receiver shouldnt fight for the ball

The bigger question is, did Walker know Akamura was going to be there?

Also:

84-Randy Moss: He played just 17 of the team's 61 offensive snaps in the game and seemed to do a good job of winning off the line of scrimmage against CB Prince Amukamara. Showed he can still be a deep threat. . . Only three passes went his way.


Alex Smith needs to stop this inner circle crap and trust a HOF player. In fact, Randy Moss should not be required to "earn" Alex Smith's trust.