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Receivers need to attack the ball!

Originally posted by Mr.Mcgibblets:
Originally posted by Joecool:
The bold makes the biggest difference in the world. They were two different scenarios. One, Walker was pretty much at a standstill and was able to push and jump. The other, he was already running forward and was not able to standstill and jump.

Again.. he had time to plant an jump. A decent offensive receiver would have been able to do something... and we are going in pointless circles, so I'll be the first to walk away.

Joe answer this. Did Walker turn around and locate the ball on the INT?
Originally posted by paperplanemedia:
Originally posted by Mr.Mcgibblets:
Originally posted by Joecool:
The bold makes the biggest difference in the world. They were two different scenarios. One, Walker was pretty much at a standstill and was able to push and jump. The other, he was already running forward and was not able to standstill and jump.

Again.. he had time to plant an jump. A decent offensive receiver would have been able to do something... and we are going in pointless circles, so I'll be the first to walk away.

Joe answer this. Did Walker turn around and locate the ball on the INT?

He turned around and located the ball and was not at a standstill. The route was a wheel route so if he saw the ball coming his way, he most likely wasn't expecting a Defender that close over the top. It's a route that is thrown with that much of an arc if the coast is clear. So what he did was to expect to catch it on the run with no defender just above him.

Now if the ball was zipped on a line, a receiver would assume it's being zipped for a reason so it's time to attack the ball because someone must be coming.
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by paperplanemedia:
Originally posted by Mr.Mcgibblets:
Originally posted by Joecool:
The bold makes the biggest difference in the world. They were two different scenarios. One, Walker was pretty much at a standstill and was able to push and jump. The other, he was already running forward and was not able to standstill and jump.

Again.. he had time to plant an jump. A decent offensive receiver would have been able to do something... and we are going in pointless circles, so I'll be the first to walk away.

Joe answer this. Did Walker turn around and locate the ball on the INT?

He turned around and located the ball and was not at a standstill. The route was a wheel route so if he saw the ball coming his way, he most likely wasn't expecting a Defender that close over the top. It's a route that is thrown with that much of an arc if the coast is clear. So what he did was to expect to catch it on the run with no defender just above him.

Now if the ball was zipped on a line, a receiver would assume it's being zipped for a reason so it's time to attack the ball because someone must be coming.

Walkexcuses all to fit in the same ole agenda. Walker was staring at the ball when he was at the 45 yd line. That's nearly 10 full yards for Walker to locate, track, and prepare to adjust for the ball. He could easily have taken three steps, actually turned to face the ball and jump for it. Instead, he takes five steps and allows the S the direct path to the incoming ball... as he takes that 5th step just outside and to the right of the S.. who is going up and preparing for the pass.

It was utterly pathetic of Walker, and if anyone can produce the evidence to challenge what I'm saying, then please do so.
Originally posted by Mr.Mcgibblets:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by paperplanemedia:
Originally posted by Mr.Mcgibblets:
Originally posted by Joecool:
The bold makes the biggest difference in the world. They were two different scenarios. One, Walker was pretty much at a standstill and was able to push and jump. The other, he was already running forward and was not able to standstill and jump.

Again.. he had time to plant an jump. A decent offensive receiver would have been able to do something... and we are going in pointless circles, so I'll be the first to walk away.

Joe answer this. Did Walker turn around and locate the ball on the INT?

He turned around and located the ball and was not at a standstill. The route was a wheel route so if he saw the ball coming his way, he most likely wasn't expecting a Defender that close over the top. It's a route that is thrown with that much of an arc if the coast is clear. So what he did was to expect to catch it on the run with no defender just above him.

Now if the ball was zipped on a line, a receiver would assume it's being zipped for a reason so it's time to attack the ball because someone must be coming.

Walkexcuses all to fit in the same ole agenda. Walker was staring at the ball when he was at the 45 yd line. That's nearly 10 full yards for Walker to locate, track, and prepare to adjust for the ball. He could easily have taken three steps, actually turned to face the ball and jump for it. Instead, he takes five steps and allows the S the direct path to the incoming ball... as he takes that 5th step just outside and to the right of the S.. who is going up and preparing for the pass.

It was utterly pathetic of Walker, and if anyone can produce the evidence to challenge what I'm saying, then please do so.

Yeah, but did he think there was a defender that close considering the punt he was about to receive? He probably thought it was going to be an easy open wheel route that he is accustomed to from his experience in the system. Ball should have been zipped.

This is another thing we can delve into. Our receivers don't normally get the ball when they are covered tight so I don't think he was expecting the defender whereas Eli's receivers know they can get the ball at any time and expect to get ready to make tough catches.
[ Edited by Joecool on Oct 16, 2012 at 8:00 AM ]
Originally posted by Joecool:
Yeah, but did he think there was a defender that close considering the punt he was about to receive? He probably thought it was going to be an easy open wheel route that he is accustomed to from his experience in the system. Ball should have been zipped.

This is another thing we can delve into. Our receivers don't normally get the ball when they are covered tight so I don't think he was expecting the defender whereas Eli's receivers know they can get the ball at any time and expect to get ready to make tough catches.

He saw the S coming in and preparing for the pass. All he had to do is.. oh I don't know.. maybe try to make a play on the ball? Was that just so much to ask of a former WR and TE? Instead.. he clears a direct path and allows the S to go up for it? Like I said, plenty of time to adjust and go for the ball in front of the S. He just... f**ked up. Years ago, he went up and bailed his QB out with a jump-ball like this one... and the fans loved Troy for giving him the chance. This time, he had a similar chance and wouldn't have even had to max effort out.. and he didn't... and the QB is ripped.

Go figure.
^ to add.

This was a FIRST down pass. The very least Walker should do is tackle the S and get the O.P.I. call.

What hurts more? an INT freely given up or a 10 yard penalty?
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by Mr.Mcgibblets:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by paperplanemedia:
Originally posted by Mr.Mcgibblets:
Originally posted by Joecool:
The bold makes the biggest difference in the world. They were two different scenarios. One, Walker was pretty much at a standstill and was able to push and jump. The other, he was already running forward and was not able to standstill and jump.

Again.. he had time to plant an jump. A decent offensive receiver would have been able to do something... and we are going in pointless circles, so I'll be the first to walk away.

Joe answer this. Did Walker turn around and locate the ball on the INT?

He turned around and located the ball and was not at a standstill. The route was a wheel route so if he saw the ball coming his way, he most likely wasn't expecting a Defender that close over the top. It's a route that is thrown with that much of an arc if the coast is clear. So what he did was to expect to catch it on the run with no defender just above him.

Now if the ball was zipped on a line, a receiver would assume it's being zipped for a reason so it's time to attack the ball because someone must be coming.

Walkexcuses all to fit in the same ole agenda. Walker was staring at the ball when he was at the 45 yd line. That's nearly 10 full yards for Walker to locate, track, and prepare to adjust for the ball. He could easily have taken three steps, actually turned to face the ball and jump for it. Instead, he takes five steps and allows the S the direct path to the incoming ball... as he takes that 5th step just outside and to the right of the S.. who is going up and preparing for the pass.

It was utterly pathetic of Walker, and if anyone can produce the evidence to challenge what I'm saying, then please do so.

Yeah, but did he think there was a defender that close considering the punt he was about to receive? He probably thought it was going to be an easy open wheel route that he is accustomed to from his experience in the system. Ball should have been zipped.

This is another thing we can delve into. Our receivers don't normally get the ball when they are covered tight so I don't think he was expecting the defender whereas Eli's receivers know they can get the ball at any time and expect to get ready to make tough catches.

That's where the adjustment part takes place by the receiver, Walker located the ball but didn't adjust to a pass that wasn't zipped.


Fitzgerald says "You'll never know what to expect when you come out of your break" so you saying Walker expected a pass that was zipped indicates that he doesn't have enough experience or coaching to make proper adjustments to the flight of the ball.
Originally posted by paperplanemedia:
That's where the adjustment part takes place by the receiver, Walker located the ball but didn't adjust to a pass that wasn't zipped.


Fitzgerald says "You'll never know what to expect when you come out of your break" so you saying Walker expected a pass that was zipped indicates that he doesn't have enough experience or coaching to make proper adjustments to the flight of the ball.

... and the worst part about it is Walker has fielded kickoffs before.. so you'd think he has some ability at tracking and getting under a pass.. but like Rio did on a deep on vs Minnesota, he shied away from his responsibility when a defender distracted him. He had time to turn that into a catch or at least an incompletion. This is a TE/WR that lasy year had a wide open TD pass hit him in the hands that he flat out dropped. Why dropped? Because he turned his hands the incorrect way. Who the f**k does that in the pros????
Originally posted by Mr.Mcgibblets:
... and the worst part about it is Walker has fielded kickoffs before.. so you'd think he has some ability at tracking and getting under a pass.. but like Rio did on a deep on vs Minnesota, he shied away from his responsibility when a defender distracted him. He had time to turn that into a catch or at least an incompletion. This is a TE/WR that lasy year had a wide open TD pass hit him in the hands that he flat out dropped. Why dropped? Because he turned his hands the incorrect way. Who the f**k does that in the pros????

The fact that he was a kick returner and he has fought for a ball before and the fact that Alex has been off on his deep ball leads me to believe Delanie simply did not realize the defender would be there and the ball should have been zipped.
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by Mr.Mcgibblets:
... and the worst part about it is Walker has fielded kickoffs before.. so you'd think he has some ability at tracking and getting under a pass.. but like Rio did on a deep on vs Minnesota, he shied away from his responsibility when a defender distracted him. He had time to turn that into a catch or at least an incompletion. This is a TE/WR that lasy year had a wide open TD pass hit him in the hands that he flat out dropped. Why dropped? Because he turned his hands the incorrect way. Who the f**k does that in the pros????

The fact that he was a kick returner and he has fought for a ball before and the fact that Alex has been off on his deep ball leads me to believe Delanie simply did not realize the defender would be there and the ball should have been zipped.

Ok the ball wasn't zipped though and you are discrediting what one of the top WRs is saying, "You'll NEVER know what to EXPECT coming out of your break". Sure it could have been a better throw but Walker had the opportunity to make a play and didn't. That's what drives me crazy, especially when the opposing team is going after the ball and helping their QB out.
Originally posted by paperplanemedia:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by Mr.Mcgibblets:
... and the worst part about it is Walker has fielded kickoffs before.. so you'd think he has some ability at tracking and getting under a pass.. but like Rio did on a deep on vs Minnesota, he shied away from his responsibility when a defender distracted him. He had time to turn that into a catch or at least an incompletion. This is a TE/WR that lasy year had a wide open TD pass hit him in the hands that he flat out dropped. Why dropped? Because he turned his hands the incorrect way. Who the f**k does that in the pros????

The fact that he was a kick returner and he has fought for a ball before and the fact that Alex has been off on his deep ball leads me to believe Delanie simply did not realize the defender would be there and the ball should have been zipped.

Ok the ball wasn't zipped though and you are discrediting what one of the top WRs is saying, "You'll NEVER know what to EXPECT coming out of your break". Sure it could have been a better throw but Walker had the opportunity to make a play and didn't. That's what drives me crazy, especially when the opposing team is going after the ball and helping their QB out.

Walker wasn't coming out of a break. He was running a route that is set to be thrown to if there's not over coverage. And since he's not coming out of his break, he's looking to run a ball down if thrown. So, it was thrown and he found the ball and wanted to catch it in stride.

I am sure if he was aware there was a defender coming in for a pick, he would have attacked the ball differently. Our receivers will fight for the ball but they are not thrown balls unless they are wide open because that's what our QB mostly throws and what the designs create. Other WR's who make these catches more often are well aware the ball may come at any time under any circumstance no matter the coverage so they, in a way, don't trust their QB or trust that their QB will put them in difficult situations.

If Alex threw more into tight coverages or threw more jump balls, then our receivers would probably be more prepared to attack balls because the QB puts them in those situations more often.

It looked more like Alex didn't see the defender and Delanie expected an easy catch on stride. Simple as that.
Originally posted by Joecool:
Walker wasn't coming out of a break. He was running a route that is set to be thrown to if there's not over coverage. And since he's not coming out of his break, he's looking to run a ball down if thrown. So, it was thrown and he found the ball and wanted to catch it in stride.

I am sure if he was aware there was a defender coming in for a pick, he would have attacked the ball differently. Our receivers will fight for the ball but they are not thrown balls unless they are wide open because that's what our QB mostly throws and what the designs create. Other WR's who make these catches more often are well aware the ball may come at any time under any circumstance no matter the coverage so they, in a way, don't trust their QB or trust that their QB will put them in difficult situations.

If Alex threw more into tight coverages or threw more jump balls, then our receivers would probably be more prepared to attack balls because the QB puts them in those situations more often.

It looked more like Alex didn't see the defender and Delanie expected an easy catch on stride. Simple as that.

Alex already said that he couldn't really see because of the pocket closing on him. He said he threw it up hoping Walker would make a play on it.

Saying that Walker wasn't expecting Alex to throw it up because there was a defender is kinda lame. I get it, but the boy is paid a lot of money to catch balls no matter what the situation is. And it's not like Alex didn't throw to him under heavy coverage before..see detroit game last year for an easy example that everyone knows.

Personally I put that INT on both players...slightly more on Walker because he could have at least PI'd to defend the ball.
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by paperplanemedia:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by Mr.Mcgibblets:
... and the worst part about it is Walker has fielded kickoffs before.. so you'd think he has some ability at tracking and getting under a pass.. but like Rio did on a deep on vs Minnesota, he shied away from his responsibility when a defender distracted him. He had time to turn that into a catch or at least an incompletion. This is a TE/WR that lasy year had a wide open TD pass hit him in the hands that he flat out dropped. Why dropped? Because he turned his hands the incorrect way. Who the f**k does that in the pros????

The fact that he was a kick returner and he has fought for a ball before and the fact that Alex has been off on his deep ball leads me to believe Delanie simply did not realize the defender would be there and the ball should have been zipped.

Ok the ball wasn't zipped though and you are discrediting what one of the top WRs is saying, "You'll NEVER know what to EXPECT coming out of your break". Sure it could have been a better throw but Walker had the opportunity to make a play and didn't. That's what drives me crazy, especially when the opposing team is going after the ball and helping their QB out.

Walker wasn't coming out of a break. He was running a route that is set to be thrown to if there's not over coverage. And since he's not coming out of his break, he's looking to run a ball down if thrown. So, it was thrown and he found the ball and wanted to catch it in stride.

I am sure if he was aware there was a defender coming in for a pick, he would have attacked the ball differently. Our receivers will fight for the ball but they are not thrown balls unless they are wide open because that's what our QB mostly throws and what the designs create. Other WR's who make these catches more often are well aware the ball may come at any time under any circumstance no matter the coverage so they, in a way, don't trust their QB or trust that their QB will put them in difficult situations.

If Alex threw more into tight coverages or threw more jump balls, then our receivers would probably be more prepared to attack balls because the QB puts them in those situations more often.

It looked more like Alex didn't see the defender and Delanie expected an easy catch on stride. Simple as that.

Coming out of your break or turning around to locate the ball is basically the same concept so the same should apply.
Originally posted by Jakemall:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Walker wasn't coming out of a break. He was running a route that is set to be thrown to if there's not over coverage. And since he's not coming out of his break, he's looking to run a ball down if thrown. So, it was thrown and he found the ball and wanted to catch it in stride.

I am sure if he was aware there was a defender coming in for a pick, he would have attacked the ball differently. Our receivers will fight for the ball but they are not thrown balls unless they are wide open because that's what our QB mostly throws and what the designs create. Other WR's who make these catches more often are well aware the ball may come at any time under any circumstance no matter the coverage so they, in a way, don't trust their QB or trust that their QB will put them in difficult situations.

If Alex threw more into tight coverages or threw more jump balls, then our receivers would probably be more prepared to attack balls because the QB puts them in those situations more often.

It looked more like Alex didn't see the defender and Delanie expected an easy catch on stride. Simple as that.

Alex already said that he couldn't really see because of the pocket closing on him. He said he threw it up hoping Walker would make a play on it.

Saying that Walker wasn't expecting Alex to throw it up because there was a defender is kinda lame. I get it, but the boy is paid a lot of money to catch balls no matter what the situation is. And it's not like Alex didn't throw to him under heavy coverage before..see detroit game last year for an easy example that everyone knows.

Personally I put that INT on both players...slightly more on Walker because he could have at least PI'd to defend the ball.

So you think a WR thinking his QB, who rarely/never throws a ball up probably wouldn't throw it up is lame?
Originally posted by Joecool:
So you think a WR thinking his QB, who rarely/never throws a ball up probably wouldn't throw it up is lame?

I think a WR who is paid to play in the NFL should play like the ball is coming his way at all times...yeah..it is lame.