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Randy Moss does more harm then good?

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
I dont get it. Moss still looks like he's effective as a deep threat, yet we rarely use him.....


I really dont get this coaching staff. In some ways they are brilliant, in others its like they have an extra chromosome.

Almost every game, there a couple of plays where Moss raises his hand as soon as he closes the space between be and the DB. We really need to get the ball to him. The routes have been there. We just aren't letting that ball to enough.
Lets see:

We all knew that after the NFC championship game last season that we had to get better at the wr position. We needed more speed and the ability to win one on one battles.

Enter Randy, he provides one of the things we were looking for and that is top end speed to occupy a saftey.

If a team allocates 2 db's to one wr, then it is up to the coaching staff and the other wr's on the field to then take advantage of one on one coverage. We should have huge chunks of the field open to our other wr's.

Teams are also paying a huge amount of attention to VD with lb's and db's, which should further help out the remaing wr's!

Manningham, Crab's and Williams are all good position wr's but thats it. They need to be able to beat one on one coverage more often and make more YAC.

I believe that Jenkins must start to see some play in the next couple of weeks if we want him to be comfortable by playoff time. And we will need him in the playoffs, otherwise we basically have the same situation as last year
Nice view Sfout but I think that quarterbacks in the league, including Alex Smith would love to have Moss on the field to help disguise at minimum or gain huge chunks of yards on offense. Take your pick.

You have a spread out field with a deep safety and corner on one side and its "easy pitch and catch" to other receivers in man coverage rolling to his (Moss's) side. It should be easier with a more open field of playing pretty much 9 on 9(minus qb).

If you have any cerebral qb skills on any skill level, you understand matchups and how certain routes open up holes for other receivers. Thats what i dont understand about Alex. He did have a huge gain to Manningham on his INT throw, but missed it cerebrally. The deep field cannot be always covered with our receivers running deep.

Moss is a huge asset for us and is helping Alex with better performance overall
[ Edited by SFL49ER on Oct 15, 2012 at 1:08 PM ]
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  • sfout
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Originally posted by SFL49ER:
Nice view Sfout but I think that quarterbacks in the league, including Alex Smith would love to have Moss on the field to help disguise at minimum or gain huge chunks of yards on offense. Take your pick.

You have a spread out field with a deep safety and corner on one side and its "easy pitch and catch" to other receivers in man coverage rolling to his (Moss's) side. It should be easier with a more open field of playing pretty much 9 on 9(minus qb).

If you have any cerebral qb skills on any skill level, you understand matchups and how certain routes open up holes for other receivers. Thats what i dont understand about Alex. He did have a huge gain to Manningham on his INT throw, but missed it cerebrally. The deep field cannot be always covered with our receivers running deep.

Moss is a huge asset for us and is helping Alex with better performance overall

I agree that he is an asset but I cant help but say that just having on the field as decoy is somewhat pointless, we need to target him on probably 5 plus plays a game. otherwise I feel like it is getting predictable if he is only target on 1 out of 10 snaps he sees the field.

Just want to see Moss become a real part of our offense even if he is on paper our #4 WR. Maybe I am looking at in a skewed manner because how many #4 WRs who are essentially #5 or #6 down the list of weapons when they have an elite TE and a pro bowl RB as well.
Originally posted by Willisfn4life:
My biggest problem isn't with Moss but with Crabtree. Moss has been exactly what I thought he'd be. He's not the dominant force he once was but still has solid straightline speed and is mostly used as a decoy. Crabtree on the other hand, I keep holding out hope that this guy will become the receiver we drafted him to be, but thats just not the case. He for the most part just doesn't show up in the big games.

It seems that Crabtree's biggest games come from when the rest of the team is executing around him, ala last week when we were dominating Buffalo on all fronts. BUT, in games like this one against the Giants when we need this guy to step up and be a star when things are going bad, it seems that he's hiding behind the waterboy on the bench. Great players make great plays when their team most needs it and that just isn't Crabtree. He's a solid number two guy but I am becoming more and more convinced by the week thats all he will ever be. It seems for all our "upgrades" at receiver this offseason that we shouldn't be done yet in that department going forward, because so far this season I've learned that when Vernon Davis is neutralized then so his our entire passing game.


Im convinced from your short paragragh of your reference point that you have no real perspective of the receiver position or the history of our teams receiver's accomplishments in the last 8 years.

*You have to actually RECEIVE the ball to catch it.
*And Crabtree runs great routes, gets open, and bails out Alex almost every time the ball comes sailing his way 10 feet off the ground; the very few oppotunities he does get, that is.
Originally posted by sfout:
Originally posted by SFL49ER:
Nice view Sfout but I think that quarterbacks in the league, including Alex Smith would love to have Moss on the field to help disguise at minimum or gain huge chunks of yards on offense. Take your pick.

You have a spread out field with a deep safety and corner on one side and its "easy pitch and catch" to other receivers in man coverage rolling to his (Moss's) side. It should be easier with a more open field of playing pretty much 9 on 9(minus qb).

If you have any cerebral qb skills on any skill level, you understand matchups and how certain routes open up holes for other receivers. Thats what i dont understand about Alex. He did have a huge gain to Manningham on his INT throw, but missed it cerebrally. The deep field cannot be always covered with our receivers running deep.

Moss is a huge asset for us and is helping Alex with better performance overall

I agree that he is an asset but I cant help but say that just having on the field as decoy is somewhat pointless, we need to target him on probably 5 plus plays a game. otherwise I feel like it is getting predictable if he is only target on 1 out of 10 snaps he sees the field.

Just want to see Moss become a real part of our offense even if he is on paper our #4 WR. Maybe I am looking at in a skewed manner because how many #4 WRs who are essentially #5 or #6 down the list of weapons when they have an elite TE and a pro bowl RB as well.


I want that too, and feel Smiths production should be better than where its at now, because of Moss
  • sfout
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Originally posted by SFL49ER:
Originally posted by sfout:
Originally posted by SFL49ER:
Nice view Sfout but I think that quarterbacks in the league, including Alex Smith would love to have Moss on the field to help disguise at minimum or gain huge chunks of yards on offense. Take your pick.

You have a spread out field with a deep safety and corner on one side and its "easy pitch and catch" to other receivers in man coverage rolling to his (Moss's) side. It should be easier with a more open field of playing pretty much 9 on 9(minus qb).

If you have any cerebral qb skills on any skill level, you understand matchups and how certain routes open up holes for other receivers. Thats what i dont understand about Alex. He did have a huge gain to Manningham on his INT throw, but missed it cerebrally. The deep field cannot be always covered with our receivers running deep.

Moss is a huge asset for us and is helping Alex with better performance overall

I agree that he is an asset but I cant help but say that just having on the field as decoy is somewhat pointless, we need to target him on probably 5 plus plays a game. otherwise I feel like it is getting predictable if he is only target on 1 out of 10 snaps he sees the field.

Just want to see Moss become a real part of our offense even if he is on paper our #4 WR. Maybe I am looking at in a skewed manner because how many #4 WRs who are essentially #5 or #6 down the list of weapons when they have an elite TE and a pro bowl RB as well.


I want that too, and feel Smiths production should be better than where its at now, because of Moss

Heres hoping we go that route lol
I just want one of our Ninertalk junkies--maybe you included--to get 'the coaches tape of GameRewind and give a full review of what receivers are open and what qb reads are in sequence and what is the coaches perspective on this topic.

... because from the only two replays I saw from the game was one: the Delanie INT, Manningham was open
and two: the flush out from Smith to his right, he had Crabs reverse direction to his side only for Smith to NOT beam his ass in the chest with the ball.

FML
  • sfout
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 6,301
Originally posted by SFL49ER:
I just want one of our Ninertalk junkies--maybe you included--to get 'the coaches tape of GameRewind and give a full review of what receivers are open and what qb reads are in sequence and what is the coaches perspective on this topic.

... because from the only two replays I saw from the game was one: the Delanie INT, Manningham was open
and two: the flush out from Smith to his right, he had Crabs reverse direction to his side only for Smith to NOT beam his ass in the chest with the ball.

FML

haha definitely but it would be too depressing to watch. It happens frequently and its the by product of us teaching Smith to not take too long to get the ball out. He routinely has a deeper route open but opts to go to shorter route whether or not he has seen the deep player. Sucks but it'll never go away. If the deep route isn't the 1st and on rare occasions the 2nd read Alex will rarely go after it. Harbaugh plays percentages and hes taught Smith the same thing, he'd rather have Smith take a 90+% completion chance of a 5-10 yard throw to an open or slightly covered player then a 33-50% completion chance of a deep route because in our coaches minds that deep pass has a 33% chance of being caught, a 33% chance of being intercepted and 33% chance of being dropped or defended.

Sucks but even when Kaepernick takes over it will be this way because its already on tape with how Harbaugh managed Luck and JJ in college.
Originally posted by sfout:
Originally posted by SFL49ER:
I just want one of our Ninertalk junkies--maybe you included--to get 'the coaches tape of GameRewind and give a full review of what receivers are open and what qb reads are in sequence and what is the coaches perspective on this topic.

... because from the only two replays I saw from the game was one: the Delanie INT, Manningham was open
and two: the flush out from Smith to his right, he had Crabs reverse direction to his side only for Smith to NOT beam his ass in the chest with the ball.

FML

haha definitely but it would be too depressing to watch. It happens frequently and its the by product of us teaching Smith to not take too long to get the ball out. He routinely has a deeper route open but opts to go to shorter route whether or not he has seen the deep player. Sucks but it'll never go away. If the deep route isn't the 1st and on rare occasions the 2nd read Alex will rarely go after it. Harbaugh plays percentages and hes taught Smith the same thing, he'd rather have Smith take a 90+% completion chance of a 5-10 yard throw to an open or slightly covered player then a 33-50% completion chance of a deep route because in our coaches minds that deep pass has a 33% chance of being caught, a 33% chance of being intercepted and 33% chance of being dropped or defended.

Sucks but even when Kaepernick takes over it will be this way because its already on tape with how Harbaugh managed Luck and JJ in college.

Moss was open on a deep route early in the game. Raised his hand as soon as he got even. Nothing.
Originally posted by Joecool:
Moss was open on a deep route early in the game. Raised his hand as soon as he got even. Nothing.

lol, i know what play you are talking about. Im gonna wait unitl the coaches film is up. Cuz there is no way you saw where the safety was on that play, not with the angle they showed during the broadcast
O look Moss on a streak, Davis running the post from the same side, which gets the double? O thats right we don't run the route of post with davis anymore. The only thing we did right in the last 6 years was running that with Davis, with moss on the field that should open it up for both players even more. I agree moss is open he knows he is, watching that hand go up it's like hello 1 guy not 3 give me the ball. I think Alex will start throwing to moss if he was in the game more, we use the little wr's in kyle williams to much, he's quick let him run the drag rather than davis! How about a Wr screen, hell what about a running back screen to help with the passrush we were getting from the gaints!
[ Edited by TheGoldDiggerrrr on Oct 15, 2012 at 2:05 PM ]
No.
Originally posted by WookieOftheYear:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Moss was open on a deep route early in the game. Raised his hand as soon as he got even. Nothing.

lol, i know what play you are talking about. Im gonna wait unitl the coaches film is up. Cuz there is no way you saw where the safety was on that play, not with the angle they showed during the broadcast

No, I didn't but it was a play the commentators singled out and I'm assuming he may have been open. Either way, that has happened through the year so far. I was beginning to think Moss may have lost it but after seeing him nearly catch the triple covered throw by Kaep...dude needs some balls thrown his way.