Randy Moss does more harm then good?

Originally posted by Marvin49:
No.

disappointed that you haven't bothered to read the posts on the last page let alone skim all 4 pages Marv. Pretty much everyone in this thread has agreed that we aren't taking advantage of Moss' presence by to a desired degree by attacking soft spots in coverage and we aren't targeting him enough for his big play potential to even matter.

Originally posted by SFL49ER:

Originally posted by Willisfn4life:
My biggest problem isn't with Moss but with Crabtree. Moss has been exactly what I thought he'd be. He's not the dominant force he once was but still has solid straightline speed and is mostly used as a decoy. Crabtree on the other hand, I keep holding out hope that this guy will become the receiver we drafted him to be, but thats just not the case. He for the most part just doesn't show up in the big games.

It seems that Crabtree's biggest games come from when the rest of the team is executing around him, ala last week when we were dominating Buffalo on all fronts. BUT, in games like this one against the Giants when we need this guy to step up and be a star when things are going bad, it seems that he's hiding behind the waterboy on the bench. Great players make great plays when their team most needs it and that just isn't Crabtree. He's a solid number two guy but I am becoming more and more convinced by the week thats all he will ever be. It seems for all our "upgrades" at receiver this offseason that we shouldn't be done yet in that department going forward, because so far this season I've learned that when Vernon Davis is neutralized then so his our entire passing game.

Im convinced from your short paragragh of your reference point that you have no real perspective of the receiver position or the history of our teams receiver's accomplishments in the last 8 years.

*You have to actually RECEIVE the ball to catch it.
*And Crabtree runs great routes, gets open, and bails out Alex almost every time the ball comes sailing his way 10 feet off the ground; the very few oppotunities he does get, that is.

I'm convinced you clearly are watching these games through shades. Alex is getting pressured and sacked so much because he has no where to go with the ball and that includes to your boy Crabtree. I didn't say that Crabtree is a horrible receiver, perhaps you should read the fine lines a little better. I said he is not the player we drafted him to be. This Giants game was no diferent than last years playoff game. Crabtree was non-existent. Again you show one time when this guy has come up big for our team outside of that Seattle game last season.

Originally posted by sfout:

Originally posted by Marvin49:
No.

disappointed that you haven't bothered to read the posts on the last page let alone skim all 4 pages Marv. Pretty much everyone in this thread has agreed that we aren't taking advantage of Moss' presence by to a desired degree by attacking soft spots in coverage and we aren't targeting him enough for his big play potential to even matter.

dude thats obvious, but the way you framed this thread (title) really deserves nothing more than a 'no'. I think the discussion should be about why he isn't be used properly. Is it a consequence of Harbaugh/Roman's philosophy? Is our protection holding up for 5-7 step drops? Is Harbaugh saving him for later in the year? Alex just can't do it? All the above?

Originally posted by sfout:

Originally posted by btthepunk:
He should be targeted 5 or 6 times a game.

this is what i am saying. if we aren't using him as a real threat I feel like its pointless to have him on the field because teams dont have to worry about him nearly as much as we think they do.

remember, alot of this falls back on the O-Line as well. Moss can be open every play but if Alex cant get enough time for the route to develop, he cant hit him anyway, but i guess thats why we need to establish the run so we can get some play-action going. if we had a PA bomb to Moss like we have the Wheel route to Davis, we could get something going. I say this on every thread but Smith, Gore/Hunter and the O-line could really benefit from have Moss and Davis on at the same time. Less pass rush/guys in the box because they have to double cover both of them. Spread the D. Open them up and create some space. I pity the fool that puts their DB one on one with Moss or Davis. Back to Moss though. Moss could have 4 TDs by now cause he gets open ALOT. decision making. thats what it is.

Originally posted by Willisfn4life:

Originally posted by SFL49ER:

Originally posted by Willisfn4life:

My biggest problem isn't with Moss but with Crabtree. Moss has been exactly what I thought he'd be. He's not the dominant force he once was but still has solid straightline speed and is mostly used as a decoy. Crabtree on the other hand, I keep holding out hope that this guy will become the receiver we drafted him to be, but thats just not the case. He for the most part just doesn't show up in the big games.

It seems that Crabtree's biggest games come from when the rest of the team is executing around him, ala last week when we were dominating Buffalo on all fronts. BUT, in games like this one against the Giants when we need this guy to step up and be a star when things are going bad, it seems that he's hiding behind the waterboy on the bench. Great players make great plays when their team most needs it and that just isn't Crabtree. He's a solid number two guy but I am becoming more and more convinced by the week thats all he will ever be. It seems for all our "upgrades" at receiver this offseason that we shouldn't be done yet in that department going forward, because so far this season I've learned that when Vernon Davis is neutralized then so his our entire passing game.

Im convinced from your short paragragh of your reference point that you have no real perspective of the receiver position or the history of our teams receiver's accomplishments in the last 8 years.

*You have to actually RECEIVE the ball to catch it.
*And Crabtree runs great routes, gets open, and bails out Alex almost every time the ball comes sailing his way 10 feet off the ground; the very few oppotunities he does get, that is.

I'm convinced you clearly are watching these games through shades. Alex is getting pressured and sacked so much because he has no where to go with the ball and that includes to your boy Crabtree. I didn't say that Crabtree is a horrible receiver, perhaps you should read the fine lines a little better. I said he is not the player we drafted him to be. This Giants game was no diferent than last years playoff game. Crabtree was non-existent. Again you show one time when this guy has come up big for our team outside of that Seattle game last season.

Get Crabtree the ball in tight coverage and see Crabtree snag it. Fat chance though that he gets those chances.

And another thing: When has Crabtree ever lost the game or fumbled the ball away once h gets his chances? Thought so

No idea why we don't target Moss more. I said in another thread, if ever he has single coverage, the ball should go his way.

Every. Single. Time.

Although we stomped out the Jets, it was pretty infuriating watching a third-string RB turned CB covering one of the greatest deep threats of ALL TIME and Alex doesn't even look his way.

The o-line, while shaky at times, isn't the problem. Teams are stacking the box, and blitzing at will because they know we are not going to throw it deep.

And that won't change until we start challenging them down the field.

I'm telling you guys the Giants stomping was great.

The s$@&$ has hit the fan. We don't fix this we are screwed.

However if we do fix it,then we can be a serious monster.

Randy got his first bomb from Smith out of desperation. It's time to get him involved every game, and I agree with the 1 on 1 scenarios -- take the shot.

I don't understand why he's only used as a deep threat? He's still better than anyone we have, maybe besides Manningham (who has looked very sharp). Use the man in EVERY SINGLE SITUATION! It doesn't make sense to me...

Originally posted by zomg_its_ryan:
I don't understand why he's only used as a deep threat? He's still better than anyone we have, maybe besides Manningham (who has looked very sharp). Use the man in EVERY SINGLE SITUATION! It doesn't make sense to me...

He is not better than anyone we have. Crabtree and Manningham are both all around better WRs at this point. Moss is faster though. I think fans don't realize that Moss is no where near who he was at his peak. He couldn't even crack the starting lineup in Tennessee and got released.

The only harm being done is that he doesn't have more deep passes being thrown his way

Originally posted by niners9:
The only harm being done is that he doesn't have more deep passes being thrown his way

We still need to chuck it downfield , we need the defense to respect our passing attack , if not, our run game will suffer

I like the bravado of beating a team down with the run game early , but a few deep shots downfield will soften up the D ...thats for sure

Originally posted by sacniner:

Originally posted by zomg_its_ryan:
I don't understand why he's only used as a deep threat? He's still better than anyone we have, maybe besides Manningham (who has looked very sharp). Use the man in EVERY SINGLE SITUATION! It doesn't make sense to me...

He is not better than anyone we have. Crabtree and Manningham are both all around better WRs at this point. Moss is faster though. I think fans don't realize that Moss is no where near who he was at his peak. He couldn't even crack the starting lineup in Tennessee and got released.

*pique...sorry, my grandfather turned me into a word cop. lol
But I think that had more to do with his lack of knowledge of the playbooka nd familiarity with the Qb than it did with his ability to contribute.
He's better than anyone that we have AT WHAT HE DOES. Moss is THAT guy. He does to Qbs what Peyton Manning does to recievers;he makes them better or at least look better.
Moss, Davis, Ham, and Crab should be in on 3rd and anything over 5yrds. Converting on third always seems to give teams momentum. Hama and Crab should be getting single coverage because Davis will get doubled and so will Moss. We'd only need 5yards.

Originally posted by SFL49ER:
Get Crabtree the ball in tight coverage and see Crabtree snag it. Fat chance though that he gets those chances.

And another thing: When has Crabtree ever lost the game or fumbled the ball away once h gets his chances? Thought so

I can see that we're not going to agree on this. He may not lose games but he doesn't win them either. If he was consistently open then he'd get the ball and its as simple as that. Also there is absolutely nothing there to support your claim of him snagging a ball in traffic. We're talking about Michael Crabtree here not Calvin Johnson. With that said I will have to agree to disagree with you.

Originally posted by Willisfn4life:

Originally posted by SFL49ER:

Get Crabtree the ball in tight coverage and see Crabtree snag it. Fat chance though that he gets those chances.

And another thing: When has Crabtree ever lost the game or fumbled the ball away once h gets his chances? Thought so

I can see that we're not going to agree on this. He may not lose games but he doesn't win them either. If he was consistently open then he'd get the ball and its as simple as that. Also there is absolutely nothing there to support your claim of him snagging a ball in traffic. We're talking about Michael Crabtree here not Calvin Johnson.

The wide open receiver is a thing of the past

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
The wide open receiver is a thing of the past

Consistently yes, I'll definately buy that. Eventhough you still do see it a couple times a game on most games but my problem is Crabtree just doesn't seem to get hardly any seperation more times than not. Like in that other thread on the zone, he simply does no ever attack the ball.