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O-line: All 5 starters grade out in top 5 at their position, Boon and davis ranked 2nd

Originally posted by NCommand:
Only buy it in regards to run blocking!

Pass protection I still go with the 30th ranking. How can an OT give up 4.5 sacks through 4 games (sack/fumble too) plus countless other hits, pressures, etc. ranked that high? We gave up 14 sacks through 4 games last year...12 here.

And like oldman9er said, Alex himself has got out of many other sacks, we pass under three seconds, etc.

When you consider we throw the fewest times in the NFL, employ a three-second offense and STILL give up 12 sacks and all the hits/pressures on top of that? Well, that's just scary. We still have a ways to go before Alex/HaRoman start throwing/calling those deep packages.

BTW: Some of these poor pass protection is on VD, Gore and Hunter as well...L.Davis, Tuk, etc.


50% of sacks are not on the O-line. TE's, RB's, play design, and last but not least, QB.

Staley has been our weak link, but he has gone up against elite talent. The players he has been playing against have been more successful against other LT's. For example, the Bears LT was utterly embarrassed the whole game against Matthews, Staley was only embarrassed on a handful of plays, but not the whole game.
[ Edited by BrianGO on Oct 5, 2012 at 11:01 PM ]
Lets transition this to the backups

we got Kilgore and Looney so do we let Goodwin go and have Kilgore step in or try to restructure Goodwin?

If he goes Kilgore walks into the rotation so we ideally need another backup C and OT....looks like we could be drafting another 2 OL again. That makes 6 guys in 3 years....
Originally posted by BrianGO:
50% of sacks are not on the O-line. TE's, RB's, play design, and last but not least, QB.

Staley has been our weak link, but he has gone up against elite talent. The players he has been playing against have been more successful against other LT's. For example, the Bears LT was utterly embarrassed the whole game against Matthews, Staley was only embarrassed on a handful of plays, but not the whole game.

Goodwin has been our weakest link, unable to maintain the pocket. If Smith can step forward Staley's guy would be pushed by him. Since the pocket tends to collapse in the middle Staley and AD have to push their guys farther and that opens up the G/T gaps for a blitz or an inside spin move.

But if they can give Goodwin some help from Boone and Iupati with Gore or Miller filling in to plug any gap I think they may be able to solidify the passing game.
Originally posted by jreff22:
Lets transition this to the backups

we got Kilgore and Looney so do we let Goodwin go and have Kilgore step in or try to restructure Goodwin?

If he goes Kilgore walks into the rotation so we ideally need another backup C and OT....looks like we could be drafting another 2 OL again. That makes 6 guys in 3 years....

Interesting. I think this may be Goodwin's last season with us. Aside from him it is a very young line which is only going to get better. I won't begrudge, say, a 2nd and a 3rd round pick spent on the line. Apart from Slowey the recent line picks haven't been wasted.
Originally posted by kidash98:
I swear, if this thread turns into an A Smith Thread, I'm banning someone.

- 98

This.
I'd rate our OL off of their play so far:
Anthony Davis/Alex Boone = A
Mike Iupati = B+ to A-
Jonathan Goodwin = C+ to B-
Joe Staley = C to C+ As the year goes on and he plays some less dominant rushers his 16+ sack pace will go down. Probably ends up with 8-10 (6 last yr). Maybe he works his way back up to a B to B+ year.

I think Goodwin is most likely gone because we can save 4.25 mil if we cut him next year. I think he would have to take a paycut to stay. Kilgore or a DP will take his place. I think he is above average but that's not good enough for this team. He doesn't get much push in the run game. He holds his own in the pass game at times but many others he gets driven back and it doesn't allow Alex to step up. He's playing better than last year but to sum him up he is somewhat soft and probably isn't the player he use to be.
[ Edited by Gore_21 on Oct 6, 2012 at 2:59 AM ]
Originally posted by English:
Originally posted by jreff22:
Lets transition this to the backups

we got Kilgore and Looney so do we let Goodwin go and have Kilgore step in or try to restructure Goodwin?

If he goes Kilgore walks into the rotation so we ideally need another backup C and OT....looks like we could be drafting another 2 OL again. That makes 6 guys in 3 years....

Interesting. I think this may be Goodwin's last season with us. Aside from him it is a very young line which is only going to get better. I won't begrudge, say, a 2nd and a 3rd round pick spent on the line. Apart from Slowey the recent line picks haven't been wasted.

Me either... might be time to spend a 2nd or 3rd again... we don't have a good history recently of developing late round OL. If they think Kilgore is the future at C maybe we could draft one of those C/G guys to backup both spots along with Looney backing up RG. Or maybe Looney works on playing backup C and RG so we get someone who can play G/T. I think if we draft someone that early they should be able to play C/G or G/T.
[ Edited by Gore_21 on Oct 6, 2012 at 2:56 AM ]
Originally posted by Gore_21:
Originally posted by English:
Originally posted by jreff22:
Lets transition this to the backups

we got Kilgore and Looney so do we let Goodwin go and have Kilgore step in or try to restructure Goodwin?

If he goes Kilgore walks into the rotation so we ideally need another backup C and OT....looks like we could be drafting another 2 OL again. That makes 6 guys in 3 years....

Interesting. I think this may be Goodwin's last season with us. Aside from him it is a very young line which is only going to get better. I won't begrudge, say, a 2nd and a 3rd round pick spent on the line. Apart from Slowey the recent line picks haven't been wasted.

Me either... might be time to spend a 2nd or 3rd again... we don't have a good history recently of developing late round OL. If they think Kilgore is the future at C maybe we could draft one of those C/G guys to backup both spots along with Looney backing up RG. Or maybe Looney works on playing backup C and RG so we get someone who can play G/T. I think if we draft someone that early they should be able to play C/G or G/T.

Agreed. BAALKE, YOU LISTENING?!
Originally posted by English:
Agreed. BAALKE, YOU LISTENING?!

Otherwise, maybe we draft a C and let him compete with Kilgore. Loser plays backup C and G. Again wouldn't mind 2 guys.

On the roster if we go 8 like this year which is a bit low (could go 9)... Staley, Iupati, Kilgore, Boone, Davis, Looney, DP (C/G), DP (3rd T)

And as for sacks given up 12 looks worse than it is. 1 alex slipped... 1 alex held the ball too long and waited for someone to come open on the sidelines on 3rd down... plus we are a team that believes in taking sacks instead of forcing balls. Look at Buffalo, 4 sacks given up and I think all were in the Patriots game. They are a good OL but how many times did Fitzpatrick force a ball when he shouldn't have?

So 10 sacks in 4 games still isn't that great but not bad... I think alex has to throw the ball away and also the play calling could do a better job of getting the ball out quicker. less 7 step drops, more 3 and 5... OL can help by STICKING with their blocks... alex holds the ball, alex scrambles, alex rolls out and tries to buy time... a lot of good blocks but then they dont hold them for long enough and their guy goes and makes a sack on alex scrambling or rolling on the edge. Also, communication with blitzers/disguised rushers is better but still can get improve
[ Edited by Gore_21 on Oct 6, 2012 at 3:24 AM ]
And if anyone is wondering this is my take of the breakdown of sacks give up. Keep in mind I don't have coaches view so I don't credit any to coverage sacks.

Week 1: Joe Staley 2.5, A. Davis .5, Miller 1 = 4
Week 2: L. Davis 1, Iupati 1, V. Davis 1 = 3
Week 3: Alex Smith 1, Joe Staley 1, Nobody's Fault (alex slips on scramble in open field, would have been a + gain) 1 = 3
Week 4: Joe Staley 1, Multiple 1 = 2

Total: Staley 4.5, Iupati 1, V.Davis 1, L.Davis 1, Miller 1, A.Smith 1, A.Davis .5, Nobody (alex slip) 1, Multiple 1, Goodwin 0, Boone 0 = 12 (7 on Starting OL)

Maiocco had Alex and Anthony at 0 both which I can see. Would put Joe at 5 with the extra .5 because Joe's guy blew up the play... alex got away, anthony held the block but then alex moved around in the pocket and AD's guy finished him off.

So with 1 on Miller, 1 on VD, 1 on L.Davis and 2 with Smith (slip plus hold on 3rd down vs minn) that's 7 on the starting OL in 4 games
[ Edited by Gore_21 on Oct 6, 2012 at 8:54 PM ]
They are only as good as their last game. And in the last game they were very good in run blocking and pass protection. They gave Smith and the one pass of Kaep very good time in the pocket. There were 2 sacks in a row there, but at least one of them I thought was more of a coverage sack. To me if the qb can't finish his drop and hit his back foot, that's clearly on the O-line. Not so much on the O-line if the qb is able to finish his drop but can't throw the ball -- it could be a number of reasons, lack of recognition downfield by the qb, receivers not getting open, or waiting for receivers to get to the top of the cut. Must assess each play individually. Could be one or all 3 areas contributing to that particular sack.

I think the line is clearly better from last year and is still improving. Smith and his receivers also help too by recognizing and getting open quickly.
Originally posted by TinyHandsBigHeart:
Wow, that's impressive, but if this is true then why is our offense so mediocre? We have a great o-line, good receivers, good RBs, a great TE, and great offensive coaches. What's the problem?

Is this a rhetorical question? I think we know why....
Replace Staley and Goodwin next year please Baalke. Goodwin is a bit long in the tooth and I haven't been impressed with Staley since his rookie season. He was better at RT, he hasn't looked good since they moved him over. Staley is very overrated imo.
Staley is gonna ball out come the big games and playoffs. Watch him keep JPP in check next week!
Originally posted by Irish40Niner:
Originally posted by TinyHandsBigHeart:
Wow, that's impressive, but if this is true then why is our offense so mediocre? We have a great o-line, good receivers, good RBs, a great TE, and great offensive coaches. What's the problem?

Is this a rhetorical question? I think we know why....

Getting tired of every thread heading in the same direction.