O-line: All 5 starters grade out in top 5 at their position, Boon and davis ranked 2nd

Originally posted by jreff22:

Lets transition this to the backups

we got Kilgore and Looney so do we let Goodwin go and have Kilgore step in or try to restructure Goodwin?

If he goes Kilgore walks into the rotation so we ideally need another backup C and OT....looks like we could be drafting another 2 OL again. That makes 6 guys in 3 years....

Interesting. I think this may be Goodwin's last season with us. Aside from him it is a very young line which is only going to get better. I won't begrudge, say, a 2nd and a 3rd round pick spent on the line. Apart from Slowey the recent line picks haven't been wasted.

Originally posted by kidash98:

I swear, if this thread turns into an A Smith Thread, I'm banning someone.

- 98

This.

I'd rate our OL off of their play so far:
Anthony Davis/Alex Boone = A
Mike Iupati = B+ to A-
Jonathan Goodwin = C+ to B-
Joe Staley = C to C+ As the year goes on and he plays some less dominant rushers his 16+ sack pace will go down. Probably ends up with 8-10 (6 last yr). Maybe he works his way back up to a B to B+ year.

I think Goodwin is most likely gone because we can save 4.25 mil if we cut him next year. I think he would have to take a paycut to stay. Kilgore or a DP will take his place. I think he is above average but that's not good enough for this team. He doesn't get much push in the run game. He holds his own in the pass game at times but many others he gets driven back and it doesn't allow Alex to step up. He's playing better than last year but to sum him up he is somewhat soft and probably isn't the player he use to be.

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by jreff22:
Lets transition this to the backups

we got Kilgore and Looney so do we let Goodwin go and have Kilgore step in or try to restructure Goodwin?

If he goes Kilgore walks into the rotation so we ideally need another backup C and OT....looks like we could be drafting another 2 OL again. That makes 6 guys in 3 years....

Interesting. I think this may be Goodwin's last season with us. Aside from him it is a very young line which is only going to get better. I won't begrudge, say, a 2nd and a 3rd round pick spent on the line. Apart from Slowey the recent line picks haven't been wasted.

Me either... might be time to spend a 2nd or 3rd again... we don't have a good history recently of developing late round OL. If they think Kilgore is the future at C maybe we could draft one of those C/G guys to backup both spots along with Looney backing up RG. Or maybe Looney works on playing backup C and RG so we get someone who can play G/T. I think if we draft someone that early they should be able to play C/G or G/T.

Originally posted by Gore_21:

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by jreff22:

Lets transition this to the backups

we got Kilgore and Looney so do we let Goodwin go and have Kilgore step in or try to restructure Goodwin?

If he goes Kilgore walks into the rotation so we ideally need another backup C and OT....looks like we could be drafting another 2 OL again. That makes 6 guys in 3 years....

Interesting. I think this may be Goodwin's last season with us. Aside from him it is a very young line which is only going to get better. I won't begrudge, say, a 2nd and a 3rd round pick spent on the line. Apart from Slowey the recent line picks haven't been wasted.

Me either... might be time to spend a 2nd or 3rd again... we don't have a good history recently of developing late round OL. If they think Kilgore is the future at C maybe we could draft one of those C/G guys to backup both spots along with Looney backing up RG. Or maybe Looney works on playing backup C and RG so we get someone who can play G/T. I think if we draft someone that early they should be able to play C/G or G/T.

Agreed. BAALKE, YOU LISTENING?!

Originally posted by English:
Agreed. BAALKE, YOU LISTENING?!

Otherwise, maybe we draft a C and let him compete with Kilgore. Loser plays backup C and G. Again wouldn't mind 2 guys.

On the roster if we go 8 like this year which is a bit low (could go 9)... Staley, Iupati, Kilgore, Boone, Davis, Looney, DP (C/G), DP (3rd T)

And as for sacks given up 12 looks worse than it is. 1 alex slipped... 1 alex held the ball too long and waited for someone to come open on the sidelines on 3rd down... plus we are a team that believes in taking sacks instead of forcing balls. Look at Buffalo, 4 sacks given up and I think all were in the Patriots game. They are a good OL but how many times did Fitzpatrick force a ball when he shouldn't have?

So 10 sacks in 4 games still isn't that great but not bad... I think alex has to throw the ball away and also the play calling could do a better job of getting the ball out quicker. less 7 step drops, more 3 and 5... OL can help by STICKING with their blocks... alex holds the ball, alex scrambles, alex rolls out and tries to buy time... a lot of good blocks but then they dont hold them for long enough and their guy goes and makes a sack on alex scrambling or rolling on the edge. Also, communication with blitzers/disguised rushers is better but still can get improve

And if anyone is wondering this is my take of the breakdown of sacks give up. Keep in mind I don't have coaches view so I don't credit any to coverage sacks.

Week 1: Joe Staley 2.5, A. Davis .5, Miller 1 = 4
Week 2: L. Davis 1, Iupati 1, V. Davis 1 = 3
Week 3: Alex Smith 1, Joe Staley 1, Nobody's Fault (alex slips on scramble in open field, would have been a + gain) 1 = 3
Week 4: Joe Staley 1, Multiple 1 = 2

Total: Staley 4.5, Iupati 1, V.Davis 1, L.Davis 1, Miller 1, A.Smith 1, A.Davis .5, Nobody (alex slip) 1, Multiple 1, Goodwin 0, Boone 0 = 12 (7 on Starting OL)

Maiocco had Alex and Anthony at 0 both which I can see. Would put Joe at 5 with the extra .5 because Joe's guy blew up the play... alex got away, anthony held the block but then alex moved around in the pocket and AD's guy finished him off.

So with 1 on Miller, 1 on VD, 1 on L.Davis and 2 with Smith (slip plus hold on 3rd down vs minn) that's 7 on the starting OL in 4 games

They are only as good as their last game. And in the last game they were very good in run blocking and pass protection. They gave Smith and the one pass of Kaep very good time in the pocket. There were 2 sacks in a row there, but at least one of them I thought was more of a coverage sack. To me if the qb can't finish his drop and hit his back foot, that's clearly on the O-line. Not so much on the O-line if the qb is able to finish his drop but can't throw the ball -- it could be a number of reasons, lack of recognition downfield by the qb, receivers not getting open, or waiting for receivers to get to the top of the cut. Must assess each play individually. Could be one or all 3 areas contributing to that particular sack.

I think the line is clearly better from last year and is still improving. Smith and his receivers also help too by recognizing and getting open quickly.

Originally posted by TinyHandsBigHeart:

Wow, that's impressive, but if this is true then why is our offense so mediocre? We have a great o-line, good receivers, good RBs, a great TE, and great offensive coaches. What's the problem?

Is this a rhetorical question? I think we know why....

Replace Staley and Goodwin next year please Baalke. Goodwin is a bit long in the tooth and I haven't been impressed with Staley since his rookie season. He was better at RT, he hasn't looked good since they moved him over. Staley is very overrated imo.

Staley is gonna ball out come the big games and playoffs. Watch him keep JPP in check next week!

Originally posted by Irish40Niner:

Originally posted by TinyHandsBigHeart:

Wow, that's impressive, but if this is true then why is our offense so mediocre? We have a great o-line, good receivers, good RBs, a great TE, and great offensive coaches. What's the problem?

Is this a rhetorical question? I think we know why....

Getting tired of every thread heading in the same direction.

Originally posted by Bootlegger:
Good find. Keep up the good work O-line.

Good read hope they continue to improve weekly for the sake of the team.

I was sure Boone would struggle early, but he has been fairly solid so far.

Originally posted by dtcomposer:
Interesting. Football Outsiders has us ranked as the number 1 Running team and the number 29 pass protection team...

I'd love to see how they break down their analysis at PFF. I found this paragraph interesting and also perplexing:

After getting gashed on the ground last week against New England, the Bills face another difficult task in slowing the 49ers' power running attack. San Francisco has averaged 5.5 yards per carry this season as the offensive line has been dominant and running backs Frank Gore and Kendall Hunter have taken advantage of their work. The biggest improvement up front has been at right guard where Alex Boone has replaced last year's tandem of Adam Snyder and Chilo Rachal. The highest-graded 49ers lineman (+9.3), Boone has taken advantage of the first extended playing time of his career. The rest of the line has been fantastic as well, as all five starters are grading in the green and as a group they rank fifth in the league with a Pass Blocking Efficiency of 86.3. They've given up only five sacks , all charged to left tackle Joe Staley, so it's been a solid team effort up front for the 49ers.

I wonder how they are interpreting sacks? I'm guessing maybe sacks where there are no blitzes? Because, as we know the Niners have given up more than that. Does anyone have a link to how they determine their ratings?

I agree with that assessment...another poster who keeps tabs closely and watches every snap like FO's has that the same.

I can only speculate but Alex has taken a couple sacks rolling out to his right trying to buy time and then gets sacked as nobody gets open. My guess is they don't pin that sack on the OL? That said, they need to do the reverse and pin hits/pressures on the QB on the OL equally even if Alex got out of the sack or averted the pressure from the OL to throw it away or make a play.