The balanced offense thread of balance.

Originally posted by LoneWolf:

Originally posted by RonMexico:
alex doesn't improve = our record is going to be balanced

Really now? How do you figure? With the record at 3-1 if he continued playing at this level we finish the year 12-4?

I just like starting s**t lol

I do want to see Alex connect with our WRs though on those deeper routes

49ers are #30 in pass offense (179 yd/g) and #3 in rush offense (167 yd/game).
This type of "balance" isn't what you are looking for. To win you want to be among the league leaders in both run and pass. The Walsh 49ers were usually among the top 5 in both run and pass. Now that is real balance!

This team is more unbalanced than any team in the league! #30 in pass offense (179 yd/g) and #3 in rush offense (167 yd/game).

Our opponents are stacking box against the run, but our run game is so good that we are often still able to run (often using gimmicks). But in the playoffs we will need to have balance to win it all. And to get better we have to practice passing more so that we can develop a feel for the pass. We shouldn't wait until we are behind in the playoffs and expect Alex to start lighting it up. We need to develop that skill now. Roman and Harbaugh also know that and you will see them working on the passing game more. I'm sure that they don't want to be #30 in the league.

Use It Or Lose It = Pass Offense

The 49ers are the MOST UNBALANCED team in the league!
#30 in pass offense (179 yd/g) and #3 in rush offense (167 yd/game).

USE IT OR LOSE IT = If the 49ers don't use the pass offense soon, the will lose it later! We can't wait until we are behind in the playoffs and expect Alex to start lighting it up. We need to develop that skill now (use it), or we be SOL later (lose it). When we are up by 10 or 20 we need to still work on the pass, not just run out the clock. And we need to throw more down the field! Alex needs to take some chances, not just throw to wide open receivers, but let the receivers make some plays.

People here attack anyone who points out these passing offense facts as ‘trolls' and ‘haters'. But they are missing the point, which is to win the superbowl we need to be more balanced and be better able to move the ball through the air.

49ers are #30 in pass offense (179 yd/g) and #3 in rush offense (167 yd/game).
This type of "balance" isn't what you are looking for. To win you want to be among the league leaders in both run and pass. The Walsh 49ers were usually among the top 5 in both run and pass. Now that is real balance!

Our opponents are stacking box against the run, but our run game is so good that we are often still able to run (often requiring innovative gimmicks). But in the playoffs we will need to have more balance to win it all. And to get better we have to practice passing more so that we can develop a feel for the pass. Roman and Harbaugh also know this and you will see them working on the passing game more. I'm sure that they don't think they can win it all being #30 in the league.

Is it true that if you don't use it, you lose it?

Originally posted by marshniners24:
Is it true that if you don't use it, you lose it?

was that a serious question

Originally posted by RonMexico:

Originally posted by marshniners24:

Is it true that if you don't use it, you lose it?

was that a serious question

No, it wasn't.

Originally posted by maxsmart:
49ers are #30 in pass offense (179 yd/g) and #3 in rush offense (167 yd/game).
This type of "balance" isn't what you are looking for. To win you want to be among the league leaders in both run and pass. The Walsh 49ers were usually among the top 5 in both run and pass. Now that is real balance!

This team is more unbalanced than any team in the league! #30 in pass offense (179 yd/g) and #3 in rush offense (167 yd/game).

Our opponents are stacking box against the run, but our run game is so good that we are often still able to run (often using gimmicks). But in the playoffs we will need to have balance to win it all. And to get better we have to practice passing more so that we can develop a feel for the pass. We shouldn't wait until we are behind in the playoffs and expect Alex to start lighting it up. We need to develop that skill now. Roman and Harbaugh also know that and you will see them working on the passing game more. I'm sure that they don't want to be #30 in the league.

You don't seek balance for balance's sake.

On the previous page I mentioned the old boxing axiom, "You punch the cut eye." Outside of the Vikings game, we've been doing just that. I think a tremendous part of our #30 rating rating is predicated upon the strength of our run game. Smith frequently audibles into run plays (is that any wonder given the proclivity of defenses to set up pass stopping defenses in a pass-happy league?) and we're quite good at moving the ball that way. He's becoming very good at reading defenses and taking what defenses will give him. It's not a sexy way of moving the ball, but it moves the ball.

Having read four weeks of discussion about this issue, I think it's fair to ask the "we should be passing more crowd" this question: What is qualitatively better about moving the ball through the air vs. the rush? Philosophically, we're solidly in tune with the West Coast offense, we're just capitalizing on our blunt force trauma O-line to set up the short yardage passing game, rather than relying on screens and dump offs. The key difference that I see between this offense and the Dynasty years, is that we don't have two wide outs that can turn fifteen yard passes into game-changing plays by breaking tackles. That's why I'm stoked about Manningham.

I'll bet real money Harbs and Roman are brooding over this as we speak. I'm sure they have already had the 'Kaepernick is better' conversation, they simply have no means to justify a switch at this point or risk alienating the team.

In other words, in order for the 49ers to get to the next level, Smith must fail. He must be crucified, ridiculed, and replaced. In doing so, he will win the 49ers that sixth Super Bowl.

A question to the control freak . . . oops I mean ‘moderator' who merged my new "Use It Or Lose It = Pass Offense" thread here:
What is the only significant controversy on the 49ers? It involves the passing offense. So why merge my thread about the passing offense with this thread about ‘balance'? My thread was about how we need to "Use It Or Lose It" regarding the pass offense. Why do you try to bury that issue? There are many Moss threads and Alex Smith threads, but really few dealing specifically with the key issue of our times, the pass offense.

I agree zilla...noway harbaugh is sleeping good. The answer is clear, but smith has been a good soldier for the team, and endeared himself to some of the team and fans. I think harbaugh plans on playing kaep enough to erase any doubts and make the transition from smith to kaep smoother. A precarious position indeed!

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Or is it a "Gesture of Balance?"

Was aiming for the Moody Blues monster album from long long ago.

Originally posted by maxsmart:
A question to the control freak . . . oops I mean 'moderator' who merged my new "Use It Or Lose It = Pass Offense" thread here:
What is the only significant controversy on the 49ers? It involves the passing offense. So why merge my thread about the passing offense with this thread about 'balance'? My thread was about how we need to "Use It Or Lose It" regarding the pass offense. Why do you try to bury that issue? There are many Moss threads and Alex Smith threads, but really few dealing specifically with the key issue of our times, the pass offense.

You came in at a bad time with this one. Alex smith thread implosion and all.... this thread could end up gone too if some people don't start figuring it out.

I'm not sure your angle in posting but I'll just take it at face value. I think there are specific reasons why the passing YARDAGE numbers are so low.

1st - attempts. What we need to look at twith the numbers is yards per attempt. That lets you know where you rank when you pass the ball. Total yardage is not completely irrelevant, but definitely doesn't tell the whole story.

2nd - Sack yardage plays into these numbers. It isn't a huge factor (I think), but the niners are always near the top in sacks per game. I'm not blaming Smith or anyone else but just pointing that out.

3rd - Success of the running game and situational football. If you look at the numbers Smith often has 100-180 passing yards in the first half of most games, but then with a lead in the second half the running game takes over. The level to which they go with the running game is kind of unique, even though most teams want to do this as a general rule. It seems like we start killing the clock midway through the 3rd quarter.

4th - on Sunday all of these things were in effect AND the Defense scored, set up at least 1 short field (maybe more I can't remember exactly), and the game was out of reach even more than normal which almost completely eliminated the passing game.

I think ideally the team should have between 200-250 yards passing if the game is within 2 scores. If it is closer then they may have more depending on conditions (which is one reason why the Minny game was a disappointment, but it was a strange game where the Niners D couldn't get off the field which influenced how many chances the O had - along with it being Smith's worst game). The Jets game was an outlier and lowered the season total significantly. I believe in the three other games the team had over 200 yds passing, which is on the low end, but still within the appropriate level of production for this offense.

Still with all that being said I think there is some truth to your idea. If the team isn't passing that much then when they do have to pass more I think it raises the level of difficulty. It goes against how they game-planned that week, most likely, and puts more pressure on players who are used to balance (WR's have to run more routes, QB throws more, O-line is in pass protection more, and they are all using plays that they didn't practice as much during the week) so I think they should try to keep the passing game "tuned up" as much as possible even when the run is successful

Originally posted by nevadalove9ers2:
I agree zilla...noway harbaugh is sleeping good. The answer is clear, but smith has been a good soldier for the team, and endeared himself to some of the team and fans. I think harbaugh plans on playing kaep enough to erase any doubts and make the transition from smith to kaep smoother. A precarious position indeed!

This is just complete and utter nonsense. I know you love Kaep, and that is fine. He has some exciting potential. But in life we have to base our predictions on reality and what is really going on. These kinds of posts are really obnoxious not because you like Kaep, but because you continually overplay everything he does, and pretend to read the coaching staffs mind. Can you please just let it play out without all the crazy speculation? This place has become polarizing enough without this kind of thing.

It is totally legit to think that Kaep has a chance to unseat Smith this off-season. He should get a fair chance as any high draft pick should get a long look. If he is better, or the team thinks he is going to be better within several games of experience then he should be in there. At this point his inclusion in the offense has been gadget plays and surprise moves. We still don't know how he would handle the offense with real NFL starters and gameplans. Beyond that there is no proof at all that Harbaugh is getting him ready for any kind of expanded QB role this season. None. Kaep has a ton of respect for Smith and isn't being a cancer in the locker room by undermining him at every turn. I respect that and think you should take a hint from your boy, though I know this isn't the locker room.

Imho ya don't need perfect balance to get a SB however AS and the rest of the funky need to maximize every passing attempt to ensure any sort of long term employment by the niners.

not all the skill players but enough of them

Originally posted by BubbaParisMVP:

Originally posted by maxsmart:
49ers are #30 in pass offense (179 yd/g) and #3 in rush offense (167 yd/game).
This type of "balance" isn't what you are looking for. To win you want to be among the league leaders in both run and pass. The Walsh 49ers were usually among the top 5 in both run and pass. Now that is real balance!

This team is more unbalanced than any team in the league! #30 in pass offense (179 yd/g) and #3 in rush offense (167 yd/game).

Our opponents are stacking box against the run, but our run game is so good that we are often still able to run (often using gimmicks). But in the playoffs we will need to have balance to win it all. And to get better we have to practice passing more so that we can develop a feel for the pass. We shouldn't wait until we are behind in the playoffs and expect Alex to start lighting it up. We need to develop that skill now. Roman and Harbaugh also know that and you will see them working on the passing game more. I'm sure that they don't want to be #30 in the league.

You don't seek balance for balance's sake.

On the previous page I mentioned the old boxing axiom, "You punch the cut eye." Outside of the Vikings game, we've been doing just that. I think a tremendous part of our #30 rating rating is predicated upon the strength of our run game. Smith frequently audibles into run plays (is that any wonder given the proclivity of defenses to set up pass stopping defenses in a pass-happy league?) and we're quite good at moving the ball that way. He's becoming very good at reading defenses and taking what defenses will give him. It's not a sexy way of moving the ball, but it moves the ball.

Having read four weeks of discussion about this issue, I think it's fair to ask the "we should be passing more crowd" this question: What is qualitatively better about moving the ball through the air vs. the rush? Philosophically, we're solidly in tune with the West Coast offense, we're just capitalizing on our blunt force trauma O-line to set up the short yardage passing game, rather than relying on screens and dump offs. The key difference that I see between this offense and the Dynasty years, is that we don't have two wide outs that can turn fifteen yard passes into game-changing plays by breaking tackles. That's why I'm stoked about Manningham.

Good stuff by both. I think the team is really trying to be better in the passing game. But only within the confine of what's best run or pass trying to win, dependent on who we are facing in each game. That's why patient is need when we talk about the lack of pass production, rapport, etc. The running game execution is ahead of the passing game execution. Meanwhile we are doing what's best to win games. Lately it's been running the ball. We have not abandoned the passing game. We are trying to improve it. But incrementally.

It's going to take more than a few games, but when our guys can get it all together in the passing game, it will be so sweet. Can't wait!