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Guess What? Now we're "Old Fashioned."

Originally posted by SnakePlissken:
Football Outsiders is saying that going into week 3 (determined upon all the nuances within their little number crunching programs) we possess the #1 overall offense in the NFL.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/dvoa-ratings/2012/week-2-dvoa-ratings

That's pretty cool. I enjoy reading FO, but it looks like they missed big with their "regression toward the mean" bs prediction. They had us going 7-9, or something stupid like that.
I like their table of the worst 2-0 teams ever. The 2007 and 2009 49ers make the list. Oh the memories...
Originally posted by AXEGRINDER:
I doubt the NFL is trying to "brand" anything. I think you're reading too much into it.

Trust me, you run an entity that makes $$ like the NFL does, you are branding. Did anyone watch Sportscenter or anything today? Lots of coverage of the Denver-Atlanta game, but no one mentioned that on his 3 picks Peyton seemed to underthrow the ball. They talked about how well Atlanta disguised coverages and how Peyton was still learning the new Denver offense, but only Stephen A. Smith (!) even came close to broaching the possibility that Manning might not be all there physically. Because he's big money.
Originally posted by BayArea:
Originally posted by ninermedic:
Originally posted by 49erfeeeever808:
Originally posted by ninermedic:
Originally posted by 49erfeeeever808:
the media wants to promote big play offensive teams, and that is not the 49ers.



we're actually preventing big play offenses from looking good. (Packers, Lions) therefore, they don't like us.


I was wondering about this the other day, since the NFL seems to be pushing its product toward a faster-paced, higher scoring game, does the success of the 49ers, with our focus on fundamentals and balance, represent a problem for the NFL?

we have a pretty solid fan base. so i don't think so.


Right we do, but beyond the fan base. The top team in the NFL (ex. the Giants, Packers last couple seasons) are held up as an example of what the league offers. Both of those are pass happy teams. When the most dominant team in the league doesn't fit their prototype "modern" product, does the NFL have a branding issue?

Very possible. Maybe fans like to watch the "exciting" deep pass kind of play in superbowls etc.. The 49ers coming along and eating clock for most of the game might not keep their interest like the other teams. Maybe that explains the resistance to showing any validity to our style of play. That is very possible. They might hate that a team that doesn't fit their modern mold can actually win.

I heard something last year that the NFL was thankful that the Ravens and the 49ers were not in the superbowl. They said the Giants and Patriots had a much larger fanbase and the matchup was much more desired nationwide which = revenue for the NFL. Something to the effect of watching two dominant defenses battle against two slow working offenses in the superbowl would make for bad TV.

The last superbowl did break TV ratings records if I remember correctly.

Cmon man.

Conspiracy theories. Are you saying the NFL influenced Belicheck, Payton, McCarthy, and Schwartz to create explosive offenses? Or influenced the rest of the league to have their defenses bow down to them? Do you really think those guys gave a s**t about tv ratings? No, they cared about winning. This high octane offense stuff is a fad, started by the Rams in the late 90's. Solid defense and balanced offense is what ultimately outlasts everything in this league, whether the NFL likes it or not.

To say that the NFL did not want two great defenses to matchup in the SuperBowl is ridiculous.
[ Edited by AXEGRINDER on Sep 18, 2012 at 6:30 PM ]
Originally posted by ninermedic:
Originally posted by AXEGRINDER:
I doubt the NFL is trying to "brand" anything. I think you're reading too much into it.

Trust me, you run an entity that makes $$ like the NFL does, you are branding. Did anyone watch Sportscenter or anything today? Lots of coverage of the Denver-Atlanta game, but no one mentioned that on his 3 picks Peyton seemed to underthrow the ball. They talked about how well Atlanta disguised coverages and how Peyton was still learning the new Denver offense, but only Stephen A. Smith (!) even came close to broaching the possibility that Manning might not be all there physically. Because he's big money.

Lol.

Not buying it dude. Fantasy football gurus may not like the 49ers brand of football, but that's it.

Especially the point the NFL is laying out what dips**t analysts are talking about on ESPN. If what you're saying has any truth, football purists in regards to strategy should just go watch high school games.

I don't think you realize what you're talking about would be a very sad state of affairs.
Originally posted by AXEGRINDER:
Originally posted by ninermedic:
Originally posted by AXEGRINDER:
I doubt the NFL is trying to "brand" anything. I think you're reading too much into it.

Trust me, you run an entity that makes $$ like the NFL does, you are branding. Did anyone watch Sportscenter or anything today? Lots of coverage of the Denver-Atlanta game, but no one mentioned that on his 3 picks Peyton seemed to underthrow the ball. They talked about how well Atlanta disguised coverages and how Peyton was still learning the new Denver offense, but only Stephen A. Smith (!) even came close to broaching the possibility that Manning might not be all there physically. Because he's big money.

Lol.

Not buying it dude. Fantasy football gurus may not like the 49ers brand of football, but that's it.

Especially the point the NFL is laying out what dips**t analysts are talking about on ESPN. If what you're saying has any truth, football purists in regards to strategy should just go watch high school games.

I don't think you realize what you're talking about would be a very sad state of affairs.

I would venture to say that the NFL does have more of a hand than you give them credit for (for example, rule changes to aid the passing game, protect QBs, speed up pace of game, etc. + just how much does NFL encourage fantasy football, since it popularizes its product) but it's a point that can be argued. I really don't have any real data to back up my assertions besides anectodal stuff, look at trends etc. I would say it's worth giving a thought to, which you seem to have, so nbd.
Originally posted by AXEGRINDER:
Originally posted by BayArea:
Originally posted by ninermedic:
Originally posted by 49erfeeeever808:
Originally posted by ninermedic:
Originally posted by 49erfeeeever808:
the media wants to promote big play offensive teams, and that is not the 49ers.



we're actually preventing big play offenses from looking good. (Packers, Lions) therefore, they don't like us.


I was wondering about this the other day, since the NFL seems to be pushing its product toward a faster-paced, higher scoring game, does the success of the 49ers, with our focus on fundamentals and balance, represent a problem for the NFL?

we have a pretty solid fan base. so i don't think so.


Right we do, but beyond the fan base. The top team in the NFL (ex. the Giants, Packers last couple seasons) are held up as an example of what the league offers. Both of those are pass happy teams. When the most dominant team in the league doesn't fit their prototype "modern" product, does the NFL have a branding issue?

Very possible. Maybe fans like to watch the "exciting" deep pass kind of play in superbowls etc.. The 49ers coming along and eating clock for most of the game might not keep their interest like the other teams. Maybe that explains the resistance to showing any validity to our style of play. That is very possible. They might hate that a team that doesn't fit their modern mold can actually win.

I heard something last year that the NFL was thankful that the Ravens and the 49ers were not in the superbowl. They said the Giants and Patriots had a much larger fanbase and the matchup was much more desired nationwide which = revenue for the NFL. Something to the effect of watching two dominant defenses battle against two slow working offenses in the superbowl would make for bad TV.

The last superbowl did break TV ratings records if I remember correctly.

Cmon man.

Conspiracy theories. Are you saying the NFL influenced Belicheck, Payton, McCarthy, and Schwartz to create explosive offenses? Or influenced the rest of the league to have their defenses bow down to them? Do you really think those guys gave a s**t about tv ratings? No, they cared about winning. This high octane offense stuff is a fad, started by the Rams in the late 90's. Solid defense and balanced offense is what ultimately outlasts everything in this league, whether the NFL likes it or not.

To say that the NFL did not want two great defenses to matchup in the SuperBowl is ridiculous.

last couple of years the rule changes in the NFL have been all about safety, but FWIW before that it felt like a lot of rules were gears towards helping offenses score more points. (more strict on the illegal contact down field, more strict about protecting the QB, etc)

but yeah, the whole "it's a QB oriented league" thing is starting to become an annoying cliche. i agree it's a fad. i said in another thread that the niners are going to start a trend back to the running game.
Originally posted by ninermedic:
Originally posted by AXEGRINDER:
Originally posted by ninermedic:
Originally posted by AXEGRINDER:
I doubt the NFL is trying to "brand" anything. I think you're reading too much into it.

Trust me, you run an entity that makes $$ like the NFL does, you are branding. Did anyone watch Sportscenter or anything today? Lots of coverage of the Denver-Atlanta game, but no one mentioned that on his 3 picks Peyton seemed to underthrow the ball. They talked about how well Atlanta disguised coverages and how Peyton was still learning the new Denver offense, but only Stephen A. Smith (!) even came close to broaching the possibility that Manning might not be all there physically. Because he's big money.

Lol.

Not buying it dude. Fantasy football gurus may not like the 49ers brand of football, but that's it.

Especially the point the NFL is laying out what dips**t analysts are talking about on ESPN. If what you're saying has any truth, football purists in regards to strategy should just go watch high school games.

I don't think you realize what you're talking about would be a very sad state of affairs.

I would venture to say that the NFL does have more of a hand than you give them credit for (for example, rule changes to aid the passing game, protect QBs, speed up pace of game, etc. + just how much does NFL encourage fantasy football, since it popularizes its product) but it's a point that can be argued. I really don't have any real data to back up my assertions besides anectodal stuff, look at trends etc. I would say it's worth giving a thought to, which you seem to have, so nbd.

Well you're right about the rule changes, but I'm leaning towards them doing that more so to save money, I.e player safety. And the subject is worth discussing, however I find it hard to believe the NFL would influence teams in the manner you're describing. If teams like the 49ers and Ravens were discriminated against for the style of football they play, that would be extremely hard to get away with, and if they were exposed, they would lose billions.

Remember, the NFL is owned by 32 owners, and I doubt they are capable of orchestrating a league-wide conspiracy that benefits only a handful of teams.
Originally posted by ninermedic:
I would venture to say that the NFL does have more of a hand than you give them credit for (for example, rule changes to aid the passing game, protect QBs, speed up pace of game, etc. + just how much does NFL encourage fantasy football, since it popularizes its product) but it's a point that can be argued. I really don't have any real data to back up my assertions besides anectodal stuff, look at trends etc. I would say it's worth giving a thought to, which you seem to have, so nbd.

i agree with this on some level. but the trends on how teams build their teams is more "copy cat" than encouraged by league officials/rules

49ers use WCO and win..... everyone starts using WCO......
Patriots and Packers start going to the spread.... other teams start going to the spread.....
Patriots popularize using 2 TE..... other teams start using 2 TE.......
Originally posted by 49erfeeeever808:
last couple of years the rule changes in the NFL have been all about safety, but FWIW before that it felt like a lot of rules were gears towards helping offenses score more points. (more strict on the illegal contact down field, more strict about protecting the QB, etc)

but yeah, the whole "it's a QB oriented league" thing is starting to become an annoying cliche. i agree it's a fad. i said in another thread that the niners are going to start a trend back to the running game.

Where the hell is Hessiondud?

He and I said that over a year ago, in regards to Harbaugh's philosophy will change the way teams have been drafting defensive players over the last decade, back to what it should be and has been prior to 2000.
[ Edited by AXEGRINDER on Sep 18, 2012 at 6:47 PM ]
Originally posted by 49erfeeeever808:
Originally posted by ninermedic:
I would venture to say that the NFL does have more of a hand than you give them credit for (for example, rule changes to aid the passing game, protect QBs, speed up pace of game, etc. + just how much does NFL encourage fantasy football, since it popularizes its product) but it's a point that can be argued. I really don't have any real data to back up my assertions besides anectodal stuff, look at trends etc. I would say it's worth giving a thought to, which you seem to have, so nbd.

i agree with this on some level. but the trends on how teams build their teams is more "copy cat" than encouraged by league officials/rules

49ers use WCO and win..... everyone starts using WCO......
Patriots and Packers start going to the spread.... other teams start going to the spread.....
Patriots popularize using 2 TE..... other teams start using 2 TE.......

Agree with this.
Originally posted by AXEGRINDER:
Well you're right about the rule changes, but I'm leaning towards them doing that more so to save money, I.e player safety. And the subject is worth discussing, however I find it hard to believe the NFL would influence teams in the manner you're describing. If teams like the 49ers and Ravens were discriminated against for the style of football they play, that would be extremely hard to get away with, and if they were exposed, they would lose billions.

Remember, the NFL is owned by 32 owners, and I doubt they are capable of orchestrating a league-wide conspiracy that benefits only a handful of teams.

A dark, smoke-filled room...a dark mahogany table surrounded by 33 large, padded chairs. Silently the owners file into the room and sit down. At the head of the table, the 33rd chair, largest of all, slowly turns around to reveal Roger Goodell sitting with hands folded against his chin.

"Gentlemen, I think you all know why you are here. These run-first teams must be punished..."

No, not like that. I imagine a steering committee at the league level which would brainstorm and lay out where they want the league to be in 5, 10 seasons etc. The "big offense" thing, you are right, started independent of any central planning and it's a copycat league so others picked up on it. But they could still use that to their advantage, put rules in place to make that more the standard level of play. I don't think it would really ever come to them straight up discriminating against franchises that don't toe that line; it's more of an overall assumption that, like the cliche, it's a QB driven league and so to be successful you would have to have one. So in part my question was poorly phrased--I don't mean they are going to put a hit on the Harbaughs or anything, just when you have made these pass happy franchises the face of your league and then they get shown up by some "old fashioned" team it makes you look kinda goofy is all.
Originally posted by ninermedic:
Originally posted by AXEGRINDER:
Well you're right about the rule changes, but I'm leaning towards them doing that more so to save money, I.e player safety. And the subject is worth discussing, however I find it hard to believe the NFL would influence teams in the manner you're describing. If teams like the 49ers and Ravens were discriminated against for the style of football they play, that would be extremely hard to get away with, and if they were exposed, they would lose billions.

Remember, the NFL is owned by 32 owners, and I doubt they are capable of orchestrating a league-wide conspiracy that benefits only a handful of teams.

A dark, smoke-filled room...a dark mahogany table surrounded by 33 large, padded chairs. Silently the owners file into the room and sit down. At the head of the table, the 33rd chair, largest of all, slowly turns around to reveal Roger Goodell sitting with hands folded against his chin.

"Gentlemen, I think you all know why you are here. These run-first teams must be punished..."

No, not like that. I imagine a steering committee at the league level which would brainstorm and lay out where they want the league to be in 5, 10 seasons etc. The "big offense" thing, you are right, started independent of any central planning and it's a copycat league so others picked up on it. But they could still use that to their advantage, put rules in place to make that more the standard level of play. I don't think it would really ever come to them straight up discriminating against franchises that don't toe that line; it's more of an overall assumption that, like the cliche, it's a QB driven league and so to be successful you would have to have one. So in part my question was poorly phrased--I don't mean they are going to put a hit on the Harbaughs or anything, just when you have made these pass happy franchises the face of your league and then they get shown up by some "old fashioned" team it makes you look kinda goofy is all.

Well they better be prepared because they're about to get shown up.

So far this year the 49ers have made quick work of two of the offenses that are supposed to be the "face" of the NFL.
Originally posted by billbird2111:
F**king beat NFL beat writers and broadcasters!

They can't just call us a a "good team." They can't just call us a "great team," or even a "dominating team." No -- instead you hear terms like: "Niners get it done the old fashioned way."

How many of you have noticed this?

The latest shot across the bow of Good Ship 49er comes from non other than CBS Sportsline ANALyst Pete Pricso. Know what he writes in his power rankings? How about: "They are an old-fashioned team doing it in a different era of football." But that's not all, he goes on pontificate: "Even though I still have reservations about the style of football they play, as well as their passing-game limitations, they get the nod...."

What an F-JOB this complete and moronic clown TOOL this dude is. But he's not the only one. Oh no -- I heard the same thing out of Chris Collingsworth on the Sunday Night Football broadcast. We get it done the "Old Fashioned Way." In other words, we make grandma look "cool."

We're not "edgy" like RG III, Newton or Vick. We don't pass it like Rodgers and his stupid, moronic "Touchdown Dance." We're not the type of team to say, "hey, that guy in front of me just jumped off the cliff, perhaps I should too!"

No -- we just play complete football and beat the tar out of other, supposedly good, teams.

But can we get any credit for it? Grudgingly, yes. But only after some complete and utter tool gets his "Old Fashioned" shot in.

Rant ended

I have this theory about why it seems so many in todays media never really want to give full credit to the 49ers. I look at the age of alot of todays writers and t.v and radio commentators. They tend to be between the age of 30-50 years old. Now If you jump back to the 49ers and their glory days of the 80-90's you will notice that this time frame places these people in their teens and 20's.

It must have been tough for alot of these people growing up watching their team get stomped on by the 49ers year after year after year. It's the same way I feel about the Yankees and Dodgers. I dislike them both and will never give them full credit even if I was paid too. Maybe thats just me. Anyways it's just a theory of mine.



Originally posted by AXEGRINDER:
Well they better be prepared because they're about to get shown up.

So far this year the 49ers have made quick work of two of the offenses that are supposed to be the "face" of the NFL.

Hellz yes