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49ers Wide Receiver Assessment

Originally posted by Paul_Hofer:
By the first game of the regular season, I think the WR ranking will be:
  1. Moss
  2. Crabtree
  3. Williams
  4. Jenkins
  5. Ginn
  6. Manningham
Moss ahead of Crabtree because Moss offers unique skills and height.
Manningham offers excellent but not unique skills, and was only #3 on a team that let him go.
Later in the season:
Until someone replaces Ginn as the #1 returner, Manningham will be inactive.
Jenkins will push Williams and Crabtree for playing time.

It could be...should be fun to revisit. My best guess would be...
Moss (SE)/Manningham (SE & FL)
Crabtree (FL & Slot)
Williams/Jenkins (Slot & SE & FL)
Ginn (Slot)

I think Moss and Manningham both add similar skill sets and could be sharing the duties (should one go down like last year). I feel the same about Williams/Jenkins.

I don't think this coaching staff sees these WR's as #1, 2, 3, etc. rather, positions they are best suited for and packages of which they will be utilized. For example, I think when we go to a 3 WR set, you will see a combination of Moss, Manningham and Crabtree (in the slot - underneath routes). Jenkins is currently learning all 3 WR positions. I think Manningham will learn at least two...same with Crabtree. I think Moss's & Williams position is stable however, as will Ginn's reverse-package role.

IMHO
[ Edited by NCommand on Jun 22, 2012 at 12:28 PM ]
Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:

we have a great one but moss is easily still a ? after not producing at all in 2010 and not playing in 2011

we still lack a true #1 WR

See, this to me is where we as fans have to make a choice.

1. be skeptical of Moss because of what happened with Braylon Edwards fizzling out? or even skeptical of Moss' attitude possibilities/age/ etc?
2. be encouraged and optimistic about all we have heard about Moss... the speed still being there.. the dedication to end his NFL journey positively.

I can understand fans choosing the first one.. but I prefer to be on the optimistic side until there is evident reason to not be. If I'm to be on the optimistic side, I have to agree that Moss will have the skill left to be that # 1 wideout we haven't had in forever. (even if it is for only 1 yr )
Originally posted by oldman9er:
See, this to me is where we as fans have to make a choice.

1. be skeptical of Moss because of what happened with Braylon Edwards fizzling out? or even skeptical of Moss' attitude possibilities/age/ etc?
2. be encouraged and optimistic about all we have heard about Moss... the speed still being there.. the dedication to end his NFL journey positively.

I can understand fans choosing the first one.. but I prefer to be on the optimistic side until there is evident reason to not be. If I'm to be on the optimistic side, I have to agree that Moss will have the skill left to be that # 1 wideout we haven't had in forever. (even if it is for only 1 yr )


i was potimistic till i read this http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/58927/randy-moss-impresses-wherever-he-goes a while back now im cautiously optimistic there is no denying he has talent he still has speed but i will wait till preseason before saying hes a #1 WR
Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
For the most part 1st rounders DO come in and start, and that's pretty much the same regardless of were he was drafted. (People act as if late 1st is undrafted.) And again, Aldon was a different situation and a different position, calling for a different approach. In front of Aldon was Brooks and Haralson. Can't get much better than Brooks, but Haralson, while stellar against the run and better than decent as a pass defender, his pass-rushing wasn't as good as hoped, thought he often got good pressure so that made him a very capable place-holder for Aldon. Plus, while pass-rusher was a need, it wasn't costing this team to the extent that the WR position was. Even w/o a consistent pass rush this D was still one of the top D's in the league. A 1st rounder's expectations are much different than a free agent. The guy in front of A.J. is Crabs, at best a disappointment given were Crabs was drafted. A.J.'s skill-set gives this team and coaching staff many options that no other WR on the roster gives. With A.J. you get speed, consistent hands (deep and short), separation, toughness, dedication, deep threat, smarts, and durability all in one guy (JH loves "value"). With Crabs you get good hands, but he's not consistent with it, he's often injured, not a deep threat and isn't know for having speed. With Moss you get the deep threat and separation, but his toughness and dedication has always been a major question, and doesn't have consistent hands in the short game. Manningham is good in the short game but, again, won't be a deep threat or get separation unless it's schemed. Williams (along with A.J.) is perhaps the toughest WR we have and has good speed and will get separation, but he lacks consistency and has durability questions. And Ginn is just a good returner. While A.J. isn't the physical specimen I was hoping for no other WR on the roster is either. And it's clear that that type of WR wasn't what this coaching staff was looking for.

No other WR on the roster brings to the table the package of skills that A.J. does. All he needs is reps. So, sitting a guy like A.J. a few games and then putting him in won't make much sense given the package of skills he brings. Now I don't care how well advertised the FA vets have been. I have my own reason why I think they are being so advertised along with the OTA struggles of A.J. are being advertised (or overblown). JH & Co. won't rely on a 35 year old to come or a solid #3 WR to come in and start over the guy drafted 1st. Moss and Mannigham won't get the reps. that A.J. will. A.J. won't be worse than #2 when it's all said and done. That's why I choose to disagree with you.


My only thing is that you are basing AJ's entire skill set on what he showed in college and basing everybody else's on what they've done in the NFL. Who's to say that once AJ is acclamted in the NFL that there will not be deficiencies in his game. Every other receiver we have on our team showed just about the same "complete" package in college that Aj did, because if they didn't then then they wouldn't have been drafted. Other than that I think you do bring some good points to the table on some of your arguments.
Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
Originally posted by oldman9er:
See, this to me is where we as fans have to make a choice.

1. be skeptical of Moss because of what happened with Braylon Edwards fizzling out? or even skeptical of Moss' attitude possibilities/age/ etc?
2. be encouraged and optimistic about all we have heard about Moss... the speed still being there.. the dedication to end his NFL journey positively.

I can understand fans choosing the first one.. but I prefer to be on the optimistic side until there is evident reason to not be. If I'm to be on the optimistic side, I have to agree that Moss will have the skill left to be that # 1 wideout we haven't had in forever. (even if it is for only 1 yr )


i was potimistic till i read this http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/58927/randy-moss-impresses-wherever-he-goes a while back now im cautiously optimistic there is no denying he has talent he still has speed but i will wait till preseason before saying hes a #1 WR

Fair enough way to go.
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by Paul_Hofer:
By the first game of the regular season, I think the WR ranking will be:
  1. Moss
  2. Crabtree
  3. Williams
  4. Jenkins
  5. Ginn
  6. Manningham
Moss ahead of Crabtree because Moss offers unique skills and height.
Manningham offers excellent but not unique skills, and was only #3 on a team that let him go.
Later in the season:
Until someone replaces Ginn as the #1 returner, Manningham will be inactive.
Jenkins will push Williams and Crabtree for playing time.

It could be...should be fun to revisit. My best guess would be...
Moss (SE)/Manningham (SE & FL)
Crabtree (FL & Slot)
Williams/Jenkins (Slot & SE & FL)
Ginn (Slot)

I think Moss and Manningham both add similar skill sets and could be sharing the duties (should one go down like last year). I feel the same about Williams/Jenkins.

I don't think this coaching staff sees these WR's as #1, 2, 3, etc. rather, positions they are best suited for and packages of which they will be utilized. For example, I think when we go to a 3 WR set, you will see a combination of Moss, Manningham and Crabtree (in the slot - underneath routes). Jenkins is currently learning all 3 WR positions. I think Manningham will learn at least two...same with Crabtree. I think Moss's & Williams position is stable however, as will Ginn's reverse-package role.

IMHO
I think you're right about the coaches' approach. But I don't agree that Manningham offers similar skills to Moss. Manningham has more competition for #3 than he had with the Giants, who let him go anyway. Manningham offers insurance for Moss flaking, a Crabtree injury, a Ginn injury, Williams combusting, and Jenkins' inexperience. But MM offers little if anything that the others don't possess in greater quantities.
1. Moss
2. Crabs
3. Manningham
4. Williams
5. Jenkings
6. Ginn
Originally posted by Paul_Hofer:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by Paul_Hofer:
By the first game of the regular season, I think the WR ranking will be:
  1. Moss
  2. Crabtree
  3. Williams
  4. Jenkins
  5. Ginn
  6. Manningham
Moss ahead of Crabtree because Moss offers unique skills and height.
Manningham offers excellent but not unique skills, and was only #3 on a team that let him go.
Later in the season:
Until someone replaces Ginn as the #1 returner, Manningham will be inactive.
Jenkins will push Williams and Crabtree for playing time.

It could be...should be fun to revisit. My best guess would be...
Moss (SE)/Manningham (SE & FL)
Crabtree (FL & Slot)
Williams/Jenkins (Slot & SE & FL)
Ginn (Slot)

I think Moss and Manningham both add similar skill sets and could be sharing the duties (should one go down like last year). I feel the same about Williams/Jenkins.

I don't think this coaching staff sees these WR's as #1, 2, 3, etc. rather, positions they are best suited for and packages of which they will be utilized. For example, I think when we go to a 3 WR set, you will see a combination of Moss, Manningham and Crabtree (in the slot - underneath routes). Jenkins is currently learning all 3 WR positions. I think Manningham will learn at least two...same with Crabtree. I think Moss's & Williams position is stable however, as will Ginn's reverse-package role.

IMHO
I think you're right about the coaches' approach. But I don't agree that Manningham offers similar skills to Moss. Manningham has more competition for #3 than he had with the Giants, who let him go anyway. Manningham offers insurance for Moss flaking, a Crabtree injury, a Ginn injury, Williams combusting, and Jenkins' inexperience. But MM offers little if anything that the others don't possess in greater quantities.

You could very end up being right too. I will keep this perspective in mind and watch how this all unfolds. Should be fun! I felt that last year when Ginn got hurt, we took 4.3 speed off the board that teams had to at least respect and as a result, the Giants had no issues covering Crabtree. What I mean by Moss/Manningham sharing similar skill-sets is that if Moss needs a breather, fails or goes down, Manningham can split duties here or provide that speed, deep threat and big-play ability (esp. on deep balls) that Moss will be garnering by just lining up at SE (like Ginn last year that was so successful for Crabtree underneath). And I don't want to bash Manningham. NY has one elite WR and another that was borderline last year (esp. during their playoff run) ahead of him and Manningham still produced well esp. in the clutch. He beat us and the Pats when the Giants needed it the most. He's a playmaker. Maybe he'll be even more here once he learns the two positions and develops a Joshua Morgan-like chemistry with Alex Smith. It's still way too early to tell but it's going to be a fun watch throughout.
i don't remember much of Cox as a return man.


is he as good as Ginn?
Originally posted by NCommand:
I don't think this coaching staff sees these WR's as #1, 2, 3, etc. rather, positions they are best suited for and packages of which they will be utilized.

Agreed
Why is Manningham so underrated around here?

He may not have had a 1500 yard season, but he almost had a 1000 yard season a few years back and scored the most TDs (on the Giants roster) against us in 2011, as well as hauling in that spectacular super bowl catch -- except for Moss, I don't know anyone on our roster who made such an elite reception in his career.

Look forward to what the HAMmer can do for us.
[ Edited by JTsBiggestFan on Jun 23, 2012 at 7:24 PM ]
Originally posted by JTsBiggestFan:
Why is Manningham so underrated around here?

He may not have had a 1500 yard season, but he almost had a 1000 yard season a few years back and scored the most TDs (on the Giants roster) against us in 2011, as well as hauling in that spectacular super bowl catch -- except for Moss, I don't know anyone on our roster who made such an elite reception in his career.

Look forward to what the HAMmer can do for us.

I'd have to say Vernon's catch in the divisionals against the Saints was about as bigtime as it comes.
Three Years of Drop Rate: Wide Receivers


https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/07/02/three-years-of-drop-rate-wide-receivers/ ;


49ers fans (and Alex Smith) may want to look away when he sees the drop percentage of some of his receivers (new and old) as Crabtree, Mario Manningam and Randy Moss all rated poorly.
  • cciowa
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Originally posted by 49erfeeeever808:
i don't remember much of Cox as a return man.


is he as good as Ginn?
no but he along with the rock and maybe one of the kids we drafted should give us alot better depth there than what we had last year. if kyle can improve on this area and make the team, that would be gravy in my opinion
Originally posted by oldman9er:
Three Years of Drop Rate: Wide Receivers


https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/07/02/three-years-of-drop-rate-wide-receivers/ ;


49ers fans (and Alex Smith) may want to look away when he sees the drop percentage of some of his receivers (new and old) as Crabtree, Mario Manningam and Randy Moss all rated poorly.


adding:

Three Years of Drop Rate: Tight Ends


https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/07/03/three-year-drop-rate-tight-ends/


Let's start by looking at which players have dropped the most balls – Detroit and San Francisco fans may want to look away. It won't take much figuring out to realize thatVernon Davis and Brandon Pettigrew led all tight ends in the league, with 24 drops over the past three years.