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Originally posted by dtcomposer:OK, then why isn't he still in NE? In his whole NFL career Moss hasn't shown the ability or willingness to be a team-first guy. In his whole career Moss has never been know to be a consistent blocker. In his whole career Moss has never been known to execute an entire route tree consistently. In his whole career Moss has NEVER been know as a hard worker, as someone who's gonna put in the extra work and time to make himself and his team better (not a team guy, and never has been). And we all know who much JH values hard workers. Now, given what we've seen from a JH/Roman offense and what we know of WC offenses Moss is gonna be asked to do things - consistently - that he hasn't been asked to do his whole career. It's not gonna be enough to just run go-routes all game. And the Randy-upset-about-not-getting-the-ball-enough clock starts the minute adversity visits the team, and adversity will visit the team. So you can
wait so unless he shows different than being basically the 2nd most dominant WR of all time you mean?
until your heart's content. I'm more interested in winning results, not his numbers. At this point, his historical standings and numbers means nothing to us going forward. His historical standings and numbers won't win us a Super Bowl, his hard work will. And, sadly, that's a part of his game that's been non-existent his whole career. Now, I truly hope he contributes in every way you and others think, and then some. That would mean the 49ers do better, and above all else that's what I want. But I'm sorry, based on what I've seen his whole career I'm skeptical that Randy Moss can be the WR the 49ers need him to be. In un-padded practices his suppose to be a world-beater. Lets see how things pan out when the bullets start flying his way before we crown a known quitter the 49ers top option.
Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
Originally posted by 9erred:Ginn is a better returner, and that's about it. Remember, Blake Castonzo is about the best ST guy you can get. But in a team deep at every position those type of guys have to make themselves available at other positions or their roster spot is in jeopardy. Williams is a far more superior, polished, and consistent WR than Ginn with serious #3 potential. Again, if Parrish Cox and LaMichael James prove more than adequate in the return game I cannot see Ginn making the team unless he makes dramatic improvement in his WR skills, especially if Moss makes the team.
Please pass over whatever you are smoking my way.... It must be really good. Moss is a lock to make the team. He is the best WR on the team at the moment, and for opposing defensive coordinators they will alway need to account for Moss, and probably will double team <Moss or put their best CB on Moss. This will only help Manninhgam and Crabtree.
Moss is one dimensional if that dimension is he can catch TD's.
Ginn is one dimensional as he is not a WR, he is a KR/PR.
I think Moss and Ginn make the team and Kyle Williams is cut. Ginn is a better KR/PR and Moss is a better receiver.
Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
Ginn is a better returner, and that's about it. Remember, Blake Castonzo is about the best ST guy you can get. But in a team deep at every position those type of guys have to make themselves available at other positions or their roster spot is in jeopardy. Williams is a far more superior, polished, and consistent WR than Ginn with serious #3 potential. Again, if Parrish Cox and LaMichael James prove more than adequate in the return game I cannot see Ginn making the team unless he makes dramatic improvement in his WR skills, especially if Moss makes the team.
I find it funny that many fans here have a known quitter as our best WR option based on un-padded practice performances, yet have our 1st rounder barely making the game-day roster, and if he does it's at the bottom of the WR depth chart.
Originally posted by oldman9er:Time will certainly tell. I just put forth my prediction about the WR position. I'm skeptical of Moss, but I don't "wallow" in it. My main interest is in seeing our 49ers win, not cheering the redemption of a personality (not that I don't want him to redeem himself). As a human being who's made many mistakes and has been in need of redemption a time or two I can certainly identify with Moss's quest (if that's what it is) to redeem himself and finish his career on a good note. I'd want to do the same thing. But as a life-long die hard 49er fan I have to go on what I've seen of his whole career in relation to how he fits with THIS team. Based on that I'm skeptical he'll make the team. And if he does guys like Ginn, I think, will be in jeopardy.
Much of what you say is true. However, Moss came back with a goal in mind. He didn't want to end his career in the negative way he did, as you described. So is it really so hard to believe that he is and will stay motivated to reach his goal? He's not a stupid person, so he knows that if he is to leave a positive stamp on his legacy? The time is now... the last opportunity... is now.
Sure, I am a little worried about the "what happens IF he doesn't get enough passes thrown his way." That's gonna be up to Randy.. but he will keep this in mind. If he becomes disgruntled or lazy? He will be removed from the team.... and his legacy will further be tarnished by the lazy and selfish behaviors that he clearly is trying to atone for. That is the exact opposite of what he wants.. so it could just as easily be that Moss remains diligent to our cause... because our cause and his cause essentially is one in the same.
He can either exit the NFL as a great player who turned his career into a final positive? Or he can exit the NFL being all the more ridiculed and figuratively spat at for being a turd. I know which path I'd choose.. and I don't see why he wouldn't get the production he wants, if he is playing with effort. I'm sure we made it clear to him if he didn't already know that our offense spreads the ball around, so it is not like he would be blindsided for not putting up huge numbers.
We can either hope for the best... or wallow in skepticism...
Originally posted by dtg_9er:I'm glad that you ended that on an edit. At this point he's been our best WR, but these are OTA's. Nothing is live. No pads. As for Williams and his ST issues JH said himself said that was something JH took responsibility for. Williams should not have been put in that position, as JH stated. So I don't count that against him as much as many fans here do (but at the time I was
If his former coaches and team mates had anything bad to say I would be more worried. He found himself in some situations that he did not like and quit on his team, which would normally be an "end of story" issue for me, but I believe JH will get the best out of him. If not, he will be cut...little to no expense.
As for rating him the best WR? He is, by far, the best receiver on the team talent-wise. Since Crabtree has some "rapport" issues and Manningham has some injury issues, and Williams had major ST issues, and Jenkins doesn't seem to get the NFL...there are some worries.
Edit: Then again--these are OTAs!
about it). You have to judge Williams on his entire 2011 season. And I don't know about you but for me Williams was one of our bright spots at WR. I see no reason he gets cut. JH isn't gonna cut him for a coaches mistake. No doubt he's gonna have a harder time due to the competition at WR. But Williams has a lot to prove and I think JH is going to take full advantage of that.
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
List of value as a receiver at this point:
1. Moss
2. Crabtree
3. Manningham
4. Williams
5. Jenkins
6. Ginn
Ginn will make it for STs, Manningham may jump up when he becomes comfortable and Jenkins may develop throughout the year but this is much better than last year's list!
Originally posted by dtg_9er:I'm not too sure we keep 6 WR's on the game-day roster, and if we do it's gonna be a real WR that gets that 6th spot, not one in name only. And again, I find it funny that many fans here have our 1st rounder barely making the game-day roster, and if he does it's at the bottom of the WR depth chart, based largely off OTA's.
List of value as a receiver at this point:
1. Moss
2. Crabtree
3. Manningham
4. Williams
5. Jenkins
6. Ginn
Ginn will make it for STs, Manningham may jump up when he becomes comfortable and Jenkins may develop throughout the year but this is much better than last year's list!
Originally posted by SonocoNinerFan:
I agree 100% What a difference four months makes. I think it will shake out pretty much as you've stated.
Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
Originally posted by dtcomposer:OK, then why isn't he still in NE? In his whole NFL career Moss hasn't shown the ability or willingness to be a team-first guy. In his whole career Moss has never been know to be a consistent blocker. In his whole career Moss has never been known to execute an entire route tree consistently. In his whole career Moss has NEVER been know as a hard worker, as someone who's gonna put in the extra work and time to make himself and his team better (not a team guy, and never has been). And we all know who much JH values hard workers. Now, given what we've seen from a JH/Roman offense and what we know of WC offenses Moss is gonna be asked to do things - consistently - that he hasn't been asked to do his whole career. It's not gonna be enough to just run go-routes all game. And the Randy-upset-about-not-getting-the-ball-enough clock starts the minute adversity visits the team, and adversity will visit the team. So you can
Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
I'm not too sure we keep 6 WR's on the game-day roster, and if we do it's gonna be a real WR that gets that 6th spot, not one in name only. And again, I find it funny that many fans here have our 1st rounder barely making the game-day roster, and if he does it's at the bottom of the WR depth chart, based largely off OTA's.
