Make Dashon Goldson the highest paid safety in the league?

Originally posted by oldman9er:
For once, I guess the difference for me is that I am trusting these coaches to know what they have in the youngsters. If they believe they can whip them into shape? or whip a rd 1-2 rookie safety into shape? Then, fine. I just get this sneaking suspicion that after Goldson makes big long-term money, the team that signed him will be doing this before long ---> .

I hear what you are saying and agree at some point we will have to trust the coaches to start reloading and getting that system of next player up but it's tough. Also, I think if Goldson goes to another team he won't do as well as he would here but to me that shouldn't matter on whether we should sign him or not. If he does well here why not reward him? To me it's like so what if he isn't as good in other team's systems... all that matters is how he will play in ours IMO. I fully understand where you are coming from though oldman.

Originally posted by monsterzero789:
That past part is impossible. As frustrating as him running into his own teammates at times, he did cause a lot of havoc on opposin players last year. However in the away Arizona game he laid out aldon smith when the QB (kolb?) scrambled out. Aldon looked a little shaken on that hit. Also on the long fitzgerald TD , Larry grant was in the process of wrapping him up when Goldson came through and hit him off allowing fitz to break loose.

Yeah, those are most of Goldson's bad plays on the year but Whitner had some of those plays as well.. so did most of our other players on defense and the rest of the league. Heck, even the legend Ronnie Lott I am sure hurt his own guys accidentally many times. Point being it happens to all.... I'm not saying you monster but for those that said Goldson did more harm than good last year I totally disagree. Mark Roman was one who did more harm than good... not Goldson.

Originally posted by Gore_21:

Originally posted by oldman9er:
For once, I guess the difference for me is that I am trusting these coaches to know what they have in the youngsters. If they believe they can whip them into shape? or whip a rd 1-2 rookie safety into shape? Then, fine. I just get this sneaking suspicion that after Goldson makes big long-term money, the team that signed him will be doing this before long ---> .

I hear what you are saying and agree at some point we will have to trust the coaches to start reloading and getting that system of next player up but it's tough. Also, I think if Goldson goes to another team he won't do as well as he would here but to me that shouldn't matter on whether we should sign him or not. If he does well here why not reward him? To me it's like so what if he isn't as good in other team's systems... all that matters is how he will play in ours IMO. I fully understand where you are coming from though oldman.

The biggest issue just comes down to how much can we really afford against the cap at each position? Where can we start to cut cost at?

( and then I look over at the FS spot and think Donatell can get a youngster up to speed at much cheaper cost )

We have some tough decisions to make in the coming years. I don't like tying up 8 mil per year on Goldson. Not when we can tag him for the 6 million and see if it goes anywhere from there. We have a great front 7 now, and should be able to take a fairly average S and make him look pretty good behind that front 7 as this scheme progresses. Gotta cut costs somewhere. If Goldson wanted to be more reasonable, then that's one thing... but his greed seemed to be his undoing here. He could have signed a 6-7 mil per deal and enjoyed many years of playing for the SB behind such a front 7. But no... he wants it all... and now, he could be left going the way of Aubrayo Franklin... disappearing into the realm of the forgotten and never getting that big, long-term deal.

Originally posted by THEB:
He ruined TWO INTs vs the giants by running into his own teammates. He should be just as hated as Kyle Williams.

The fact that you hold this opinion demonstrates to everyone that you have A) never played football before in your life and/or B) dont have a general understanding of the speed of the game.

Originally posted by oldman9er:
The biggest issue just comes down to how much can we really afford against the cap at each position? Where can we start to cut cost at?

( and then I look over at the FS spot and think Donatell can get a youngster up to speed at much cheaper cost )

We have some tough decisions to make in the coming years. I don't like tying up 8 mil per year on Goldson. Not when we can tag him for the 6 million and see if it goes anywhere from there. We have a great front 7 now, and should be able to take a fairly average S and make him look pretty good behind that front 7 as this scheme progresses. Gotta cut costs somewhere. If Goldson wanted to be more reasonable, then that's one thing... but his greed seemed to be his undoing here. He could have signed a 6-7 mil per deal and enjoyed many years of playing for the SB behind such a front 7. But no... he wants it all... and now, he could be left going the way of Aubrayo Franklin... disappearing into the realm of the forgotten and never getting that big, long-term deal.

Good points... like you said we do have to start making tough decisions. If we did indeed offer him 5 at 35 which is what players of his calibur are getting and he didn't take it then yeah he is being too greedy. If he passed on long term over say 2.5 to 5 million I would say that's foolish. He should have learned from his 23 million dollar loss last year (5yr25mil to 1yr2mil). Now that was just a rumor of the 5/35... if we were offering like 25-30 I can see why he said no. But if we did offer the 5/35 again I would say he is foolish for not taking it but that doesn't mean I still don't want him back. I would agree that Donatell is a great coach... especially running a secondary but S is a tough spot to transition. It's not like RB or LB out of college...

Originally posted by Gore_21:
Good points... like you said we do have to start making tough decisions. If we did indeed offer him 5 at 35 which is what players of his calibur are getting and he didn't take it then yeah he is being too greedy. If he passed on long term over say 2.5 to 5 million I would say that's foolish. He should have learned from his 23 million dollar loss last year (5yr25mil to 1yr2mil). Now that was just a rumor of the 5/35... if we were offering like 25-30 I can see why he said no. But if we did offer the 5/35 again I would say he is foolish for not taking it but that doesn't mean I still don't want him back. I would agree that Donatell is a great coach... especially running a secondary but S is a tough spot to transition. It's not like RB or LB out of college...

Another thing to keep in mind... and I'll try and tread carefully to not upset the sensitive Dashon extremists... (yeah, right... puts on spiked cleats)

As Maiocco points out, Dashon has made a TOTAL of 4.7 million in his five year career so far. Think about that for a minute. So then one of the most SB contending teams... the very team that drafted him and gave him these chances to shine... offers him a deal worth more in the first year than he's made in his entire 5 yr career... and he wha? Turns it down????

Yeah. Maybe not a good idea to tie up a lot of guaranteed money into someone making a decision like that in the first place.

Originally posted by oldman9er:
Another thing to keep in mind... and I'll try and tread carefully to not upset the sensitive Dashon extremists... (yeah, right... puts on spiked cleats)

As Maiocco points out, Dashon has made a TOTAL of 4.7 million in his five year career so far. Think about that for a minute. So then one of the most SB contending teams... the very team that drafted him and gave him these chances to shine... offers him a deal worth more in the first year than he's made in his entire 5 yr career... and he wha? Turns it down????

Yeah. Maybe not a good idea to tie up a lot of guaranteed money into someone making a decision like that in the first place.

I was going to bring up the same thing only a different spin and I just responded on 9ers.com board with this:

If you factor in Goldson has played the last 5 years on a rookie contract and then 2 million last year. Guy has probably made 6 million so one way of looking at it is 5 years for 6 million total along with 5 years at 35-40 million equals 10 at like 41-46 million and an average 4.1 to 4.6 mil a year. Even if you factor in paying him just for the 3 years he started that's 8 years (3 started plus 5 future years) at 41-46 million (35-40 plus 6 from past) which is 5.125 to 5.75 mil a year. It evens out... kind of like rewarding him for the past... like what we did with Gore when he gave us a boat load of production on that cheap rookie contract.

So that can be spun both ways oldman.

Edit: it's actually less per year because I added 6 million when he's made 4.7 over the 5 so far and I guessed 6.

To sum this up for anyone that's not following it comes down to being ok that you possibly overpay a player in that you are rewarding him for playing well on a small rookie contract. It's one way of looking at things. Kind of like how some here said who cares if we give Gore 20 million for those 3 years even if he is close to being done (some thought that he was done) because in a way it was rewarding him for all he did in the past one small contracts.

Originally posted by Gore_21:

To sum this up for anyone that's not following it comes down to being ok that you possibly overpay a player in that you are rewarding him for playing well on a small rookie contract.

Well, how "well" did Goldson really play in each of his first contract years? Granted, he was worth more than the meager 2 mil he received from last season. But did he really do much in the years prior to last? The 2 mil deal he received prior to last season says otherwise.. no?

Originally posted by oldman9er:
Well, how "well" did Goldson really play in each of his first contract years? Granted, he was worth more than the meager 2 mil he received from last season. But did he really do much in the years prior to last? The 2 mil deal he received prior to last season says otherwise.. no?

That's why I said even if you only factor in the 3 years of him starting and did the math for that (3 years started plus the 5 for the future) instead of all 5 so far plus 5 in the future. If you break it down even further you could do his two stand out years in 09 with 4 ints and 11 with 6 ints (plus 1 in the playoffs). Both those years you can't say he shouldn't have earned more then the 2 mil plus the 1 million for the other year or whatever the average for his rookie contract was. So that's why I kind of take it as overpaying is imo some times ok because you are rewarding for underpaying someone in the past. Just like Gore, guy busted his tail for what half a million a year... that's why I had no problem if we overpaid him later on. Not saying Goldson did as much as Gore but you get the point. Besides it's not like we were overpaying Goldson anyways. 5/35 is the going rate for safeties of his caliber. There are a handful of guys making that or more who aren't as good as he is. like I said if we did offer that and Goldson didn't take it that was foolish and greedy of him but at the same time you can't blame him for the going rate. Blame the other teams for overpaying safeties.

for those who say he is "not even good" or what ever, if he ask for a trade you should be perfectly fine with that right? i was ok if we just tagged him for this year, because that is just how football works....he can only control playing well again and going from there....but the more i think about it he is getting closer to 30, and this is his last chance to get big contract in this league and every year that passes he is missing out on alot of potential money he could get somewhere else....or maybe there is no team that would give him what he wants, i think there is a team out there that would give that much money after last season.......so with all of that, with time wasting....i think i understand why players hold out or request trades. if he requested a trade and we got a 6th round pick for him, those in this thread should who say he is not good should be perfectly fine with that.....but forsome reason i have a feeling that those same fans who nitpick his play, would also bash him for asking a trade or what not....its either or.......either you believe the bs that comes out your mouth, or you some spreading bs. so again, if i were him i'd request a trade.......sure some can say that the 9ers front 7 is not going to trave with him.....first you shouldn't care, he is not good anyway let him do what he wants....second, apparently it is easy to find free safeties so we should be fine either and we will get a draft pick along with it.

Originally posted by 80sbaby24:

Originally posted by THEB:
He ruined TWO INTs vs the giants by running into his own teammates. He should be just as hated as Kyle Williams.

The fact that you hold this opinion demonstrates to everyone that you have A) never played football before in your life and/or B) dont have a general understanding of the speed of the game.

no that doesnt
there is a thing called communication. Hes the back up on both times. Those were High school mistakes. If you cannot control your speed then you don't deserve to even be on a team. there is a reason why he did not get his contract.

Originally posted by Afrikan:
if he requested a trade and we got a 6th round pick for him

If he's really THAT good, why only a 6th round pick in trade for him?

( and I think most have stated that he's good... just not 8 mil per good )

Originally posted by Afrikan:
for those who say he is "not even good" or what ever, if he ask for a trade you should be perfectly fine with that right? i was ok if we just tagged him for this year, because that is just how football works....he can only control playing well again and going from there....but the more i think about it he is getting closer to 30, and this is his last chance to get big contract in this league and every year that passes he is missing out on alot of potential money he could get somewhere else....or maybe there is no team that would give him what he wants, i think there is a team out there that would give that much money after last season.......so with all of that, with time wasting....i think i understand why players hold out or request trades. if he requested a trade and we got a 6th round pick for him, those in this thread should who say he is not good should be perfectly fine with that.....but forsome reason i have a feeling that those same fans who nitpick his play, would also bash him for asking a trade or what not....its either or.......either you believe the bs that comes out your mouth, or you some spreading bs. so again, if i were him i'd request a trade.......sure some can say that the 9ers front 7 is not going to trave with him.....first you shouldn't care, he is not good anyway let him do what he wants....second, apparently it is easy to find free safeties so we should be fine either and we will get a draft pick along with it.

I think most would want to see back to back years before giving a big contract.....same with Alex, Bowman, Brown, and Jacobs

Most wanted to pay Franklin a heap of cash and I'm glad we didnt....need to see consistency. Hell even Crabs needs more of it to be paid a substantial increase come contract time.

Originally posted by oldman9er:
If he's really THAT good, why only a 6th round pick in trade for him?

( and I think most have stated that he's good... just not 8 mil per good )

If we tag him next year I think he would hold out because that would mean he played on 1 year 2 mil, 1 year 6.21 mil and then 1 year 7.5 mil and he would be 31 before playing for his new team. I bet people would all of a sudden be mad that we got say a mid to low round pick even though a good chunk would rather see him gone. Back to the value you won't get much and just because a team offers a 6th or 5th or whatever doesn't mean he isn't any good. Look at the bites on Mike Wallace this year. Sure he wanted a big contract but rarely do team shell out high picks for a restricted free agent. Players aren't going for what they are worth.

Originally posted by Afrikan:

for those who say he is "not even good" or what ever, if he ask for a trade you should be perfectly fine with that right? i was ok if we just tagged him for this year, because that is just how football works....he can only control playing well again and going from there....but the more i think about it he is getting closer to 30, and this is his last chance to get big contract in this league and every year that passes he is missing out on alot of potential money he could get somewhere else....or maybe there is no team that would give him what he wants, i think there is a team out there that would give that much money after last season.......so with all of that, with time wasting....i think i understand why players hold out or request trades. if he requested a trade and we got a 6th round pick for him, those in this thread should who say he is not good should be perfectly fine with that.....but forsome reason i have a feeling that those same fans who nitpick his play, would also bash him for asking a trade or what not....its either or.......either you believe the bs that comes out your mouth, or you some spreading bs. so again, if i were him i'd request a trade.......sure some can say that the 9ers front 7 is not going to trave with him.....first you shouldn't care, he is not good anyway let him do what he wants....second, apparently it is easy to find free safeties so we should be fine either and we will get a draft pick along with it.

If he does ask for a trade....cool. Lets see what he's worth out there, not only draft pick wise but lets see if any team out there thinks he worth what goldson thinks he's worth.