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Make Dashon Goldson the highest paid safety in the league?

Make Dashon Goldson the highest paid safety in the league?

  • THEB
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 2,765
He ruined TWO INTs vs the giants by running into his own teammates. He should be just as hated as Kyle Williams.
Originally posted by SFrush:
I'm perfectly fine with Goldson on a one year deal. But I think he's making a big mistake if he misses most of training camp.

Yup, cards were always all in the Niners FO favor. If he signed for the 5 or 6 million (heck, didn't they off him 7?), good for us. We have 2 SS's back there for a while. But Fangio and this team knows we need coverage S's, smaller, quicker, faster guys who have range and can help over the top and not have to play 30 yards deep in order not to get beat. Now we buy a year or two to develop his replacement and again, it will be up to Goldson. Either way, we should be in good shape esp. with our front 7 and current secondary. We have Culliver who can play FS, Robinson, Spillman, etc. veteran FA's, then the draft and more FA's, etc.

Once again, I think Goldson over-priced himself and he'll REALLY have to play balls out even more this year to prove his value in FA (which I doubt he can do; most likely his play will level out).
Originally posted by Niners99:
Agreed.

The fact that people were talking about him possibly being the highest paid S in the NFL is laughable. He improved under the new coaching staff last year, but he's still just a heavy hitter who goes for the pick every time. He needs to vastly improve his coverage ability if he wants that kind of long term money.


Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by danimal:
Goldson is not that good I honestly don't understand why he receives so much fan attention

Agreed.

The fact that people were talking about him possibly being the highest paid S in the NFL is laughable. He improved under the new coaching staff last year, but he's still just a heavy hitter who goes for the pick every time. He needs to vastly improve his coverage ability if he wants that kind of long term money.

Agreed also, and he needs to tackle better on a consistent basis. He did have a good year last year...let's see if he can now put back-to-back good seasons together. The Niners know what great safety play looks like after having some top talent at the position in the past years...Lott, McDonald, Hanks, Williamson, Hicks. Some of those guys were strong safeties, but in today's game both the FS and SS must be able to both cover and tackle. Goldson needs to get better consistently at both.
Originally posted by LottDMontanaO:
Originally posted by Niners99:
Agreed.

The fact that people were talking about him possibly being the highest paid S in the NFL is laughable. He improved under the new coaching staff last year, but he's still just a heavy hitter who goes for the pick every time. He needs to vastly improve his coverage ability if he wants that kind of long term money.


Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by danimal:
Goldson is not that good I honestly don't understand why he receives so much fan attention

Agreed.

The fact that people were talking about him possibly being the highest paid S in the NFL is laughable. He improved under the new coaching staff last year, but he's still just a heavy hitter who goes for the pick every time. He needs to vastly improve his coverage ability if he wants that kind of long term money.

Agreed also, and he needs to tackle better on a consistent basis. He did have a good year last year...let's see if he can now put back-to-back good seasons together. The Niners know what great safety play looks like after having some top talent at the position in the past years...Lott, McDonald, Hanks, Williamson, Hicks. Some of those guys were strong safeties, but in today's game both the FS and SS must be able to both cover and tackle. Goldson needs to get better consistently at both.


Originally posted by LottDMontanaO:
Originally posted by Niners99:
Agreed.

The fact that people were talking about him possibly being the highest paid S in the NFL is laughable. He improved under the new coaching staff last year, but he's still just a heavy hitter who goes for the pick every time. He needs to vastly improve his coverage ability if he wants that kind of long term money.

Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by danimal:
Goldson is not that good I honestly don't understand why he receives so much fan attention

Agreed.

The fact that people were talking about him possibly being the highest paid S in the NFL is laughable. He improved under the new coaching staff last year, but he's still just a heavy hitter who goes for the pick every time. He needs to vastly improve his coverage ability if he wants that kind of long term money.

Agreed also, and he needs to tackle better on a consistent basis. He did have a good year last year...let's see if he can now put back-to-back good seasons together. The Niners know what great safety play looks like after having some top talent at the position in the past years...Lott, McDonald, Hanks, Williamson, Hicks. Some of those guys were strong safeties, but in today's game both the FS and SS must be able to both cover and tackle. Goldson needs to get better consistently at both.

Great points...these two positions in a 3-4 need to be interchangeable. Goldson needs to work on his angles, wrapping up, hesitation (reads) but he especially needs to work on coverage over-the-top on sideline throws, range and coverage in the middle of the field (see Saints/Giants game).

You could argue he (and the S position alone) gave up 3 to 4 TD's d/t not tackling properly or making a play or blowing a coverage (e.g. poor angle on the Sproles TD and missed tackle and the Graham TD's x2; immediate TD to Manningham on a simple post pattern with zero coverage from a S).

Goldson's "coverage skills" are not very good...he always seems to be late (looking for the big hit rather than defending a pass) and whenever we play a tall, dominant TE, it's Willis on coverage, NOT Goldson and I think this is a telling point. Fangio would rather risk shorter, better coverage guys such as Whitner/Willis on a TE in the RZ/EZ over a taller Goldson? And why DOES Fangio start Goldson 30 yards deep on so many plays? He just doesn't have the range or coverage skills and I think we are seeing his selfishness (in his play and contract negotiations).

He's a perfect SS though but we have Whitner for that now. The good news is that he'll do his best to ball out this year and he does have a little more upside; he does have the skill set to improve in the aforementioned but he's going to have to prove it two years in a row and really grow in these areas to get paid like an elite FS.
Originally posted by Niners99:
Agreed.

The fact that people were talking about him possibly being the highest paid S in the NFL is laughable. He improved under the new coaching staff last year, but he's still just a heavy hitter who goes for the pick every time. He needs to vastly improve his coverage ability if he wants that kind of long term money.

Who said highest paid safety besides the OP? That would be Berry at 60 million. Goldson would have gotten 35-40. Anyways, I will agree Goldson isn't perfect and gives up plays at times but I think people that are hating him haven't see the rest of the NFL's safeties. Goldson is near the top... almost all the safeties in the league give up big plays and struggle in coverage. So as flawed as he is at times so are the rest of the NFL's safeties. There are a bunch off safeties making 35-40+ million or an average of 6-8 million that Goldson is as good as if not better than. Like I said earlier the S position is becoming a higher paying spot.
Originally posted by THEB:
He ruined TWO INTs vs the giants by running into his own teammates. He should be just as hated as Kyle Williams.

That past part is impossible. As frustrating as him running into his own teammates at times, he did cause a lot of havoc on opposin players last year. However in the away Arizona game he laid out aldon smith when the QB (kolb?) scrambled out. Aldon looked a little shaken on that hit. Also on the long fitzgerald TD , Larry grant was in the process of wrapping him up when Goldson came through and hit him off allowing fitz to break loose.
Originally posted by oldman9er:
For once, I guess the difference for me is that I am trusting these coaches to know what they have in the youngsters. If they believe they can whip them into shape? or whip a rd 1-2 rookie safety into shape? Then, fine. I just get this sneaking suspicion that after Goldson makes big long-term money, the team that signed him will be doing this before long ---> .

I hear what you are saying and agree at some point we will have to trust the coaches to start reloading and getting that system of next player up but it's tough. Also, I think if Goldson goes to another team he won't do as well as he would here but to me that shouldn't matter on whether we should sign him or not. If he does well here why not reward him? To me it's like so what if he isn't as good in other team's systems... all that matters is how he will play in ours IMO. I fully understand where you are coming from though oldman.
Originally posted by monsterzero789:
That past part is impossible. As frustrating as him running into his own teammates at times, he did cause a lot of havoc on opposin players last year. However in the away Arizona game he laid out aldon smith when the QB (kolb?) scrambled out. Aldon looked a little shaken on that hit. Also on the long fitzgerald TD , Larry grant was in the process of wrapping him up when Goldson came through and hit him off allowing fitz to break loose.

Yeah, those are most of Goldson's bad plays on the year but Whitner had some of those plays as well.. so did most of our other players on defense and the rest of the league. Heck, even the legend Ronnie Lott I am sure hurt his own guys accidentally many times. Point being it happens to all.... I'm not saying you monster but for those that said Goldson did more harm than good last year I totally disagree. Mark Roman was one who did more harm than good... not Goldson.
Originally posted by Gore_21:
Originally posted by oldman9er:
For once, I guess the difference for me is that I am trusting these coaches to know what they have in the youngsters. If they believe they can whip them into shape? or whip a rd 1-2 rookie safety into shape? Then, fine. I just get this sneaking suspicion that after Goldson makes big long-term money, the team that signed him will be doing this before long ---> .

I hear what you are saying and agree at some point we will have to trust the coaches to start reloading and getting that system of next player up but it's tough. Also, I think if Goldson goes to another team he won't do as well as he would here but to me that shouldn't matter on whether we should sign him or not. If he does well here why not reward him? To me it's like so what if he isn't as good in other team's systems... all that matters is how he will play in ours IMO. I fully understand where you are coming from though oldman.

The biggest issue just comes down to how much can we really afford against the cap at each position? Where can we start to cut cost at?

( and then I look over at the FS spot and think Donatell can get a youngster up to speed at much cheaper cost )

We have some tough decisions to make in the coming years. I don't like tying up 8 mil per year on Goldson. Not when we can tag him for the 6 million and see if it goes anywhere from there. We have a great front 7 now, and should be able to take a fairly average S and make him look pretty good behind that front 7 as this scheme progresses. Gotta cut costs somewhere. If Goldson wanted to be more reasonable, then that's one thing... but his greed seemed to be his undoing here. He could have signed a 6-7 mil per deal and enjoyed many years of playing for the SB behind such a front 7. But no... he wants it all... and now, he could be left going the way of Aubrayo Franklin... disappearing into the realm of the forgotten and never getting that big, long-term deal.
Originally posted by THEB:
He ruined TWO INTs vs the giants by running into his own teammates. He should be just as hated as Kyle Williams.

The fact that you hold this opinion demonstrates to everyone that you have A) never played football before in your life and/or B) dont have a general understanding of the speed of the game.
Originally posted by oldman9er:
The biggest issue just comes down to how much can we really afford against the cap at each position? Where can we start to cut cost at?

( and then I look over at the FS spot and think Donatell can get a youngster up to speed at much cheaper cost )

We have some tough decisions to make in the coming years. I don't like tying up 8 mil per year on Goldson. Not when we can tag him for the 6 million and see if it goes anywhere from there. We have a great front 7 now, and should be able to take a fairly average S and make him look pretty good behind that front 7 as this scheme progresses. Gotta cut costs somewhere. If Goldson wanted to be more reasonable, then that's one thing... but his greed seemed to be his undoing here. He could have signed a 6-7 mil per deal and enjoyed many years of playing for the SB behind such a front 7. But no... he wants it all... and now, he could be left going the way of Aubrayo Franklin... disappearing into the realm of the forgotten and never getting that big, long-term deal.

Good points... like you said we do have to start making tough decisions. If we did indeed offer him 5 at 35 which is what players of his calibur are getting and he didn't take it then yeah he is being too greedy. If he passed on long term over say 2.5 to 5 million I would say that's foolish. He should have learned from his 23 million dollar loss last year (5yr25mil to 1yr2mil). Now that was just a rumor of the 5/35... if we were offering like 25-30 I can see why he said no. But if we did offer the 5/35 again I would say he is foolish for not taking it but that doesn't mean I still don't want him back. I would agree that Donatell is a great coach... especially running a secondary but S is a tough spot to transition. It's not like RB or LB out of college...
[ Edited by Gore_21 on Jul 16, 2012 at 3:05 PM ]
Originally posted by Gore_21:
Good points... like you said we do have to start making tough decisions. If we did indeed offer him 5 at 35 which is what players of his calibur are getting and he didn't take it then yeah he is being too greedy. If he passed on long term over say 2.5 to 5 million I would say that's foolish. He should have learned from his 23 million dollar loss last year (5yr25mil to 1yr2mil). Now that was just a rumor of the 5/35... if we were offering like 25-30 I can see why he said no. But if we did offer the 5/35 again I would say he is foolish for not taking it but that doesn't mean I still don't want him back. I would agree that Donatell is a great coach... especially running a secondary but S is a tough spot to transition. It's not like RB or LB out of college...

Another thing to keep in mind... and I'll try and tread carefully to not upset the sensitive Dashon extremists... (yeah, right... puts on spiked cleats)

As Maiocco points out, Dashon has made a TOTAL of 4.7 million in his five year career so far. Think about that for a minute. So then one of the most SB contending teams... the very team that drafted him and gave him these chances to shine... offers him a deal worth more in the first year than he's made in his entire 5 yr career... and he wha? Turns it down????

Yeah. Maybe not a good idea to tie up a lot of guaranteed money into someone making a decision like that in the first place.
Originally posted by oldman9er:
Another thing to keep in mind... and I'll try and tread carefully to not upset the sensitive Dashon extremists... (yeah, right... puts on spiked cleats)

As Maiocco points out, Dashon has made a TOTAL of 4.7 million in his five year career so far. Think about that for a minute. So then one of the most SB contending teams... the very team that drafted him and gave him these chances to shine... offers him a deal worth more in the first year than he's made in his entire 5 yr career... and he wha? Turns it down????

Yeah. Maybe not a good idea to tie up a lot of guaranteed money into someone making a decision like that in the first place.

I was going to bring up the same thing only a different spin and I just responded on 9ers.com board with this:

If you factor in Goldson has played the last 5 years on a rookie contract and then 2 million last year. Guy has probably made 6 million so one way of looking at it is 5 years for 6 million total along with 5 years at 35-40 million equals 10 at like 41-46 million and an average 4.1 to 4.6 mil a year. Even if you factor in paying him just for the 3 years he started that's 8 years (3 started plus 5 future years) at 41-46 million (35-40 plus 6 from past) which is 5.125 to 5.75 mil a year. It evens out... kind of like rewarding him for the past... like what we did with Gore when he gave us a boat load of production on that cheap rookie contract.

So that can be spun both ways oldman.

Edit: it's actually less per year because I added 6 million when he's made 4.7 over the 5 so far and I guessed 6.

To sum this up for anyone that's not following it comes down to being ok that you possibly overpay a player in that you are rewarding him for playing well on a small rookie contract. It's one way of looking at things. Kind of like how some here said who cares if we give Gore 20 million for those 3 years even if he is close to being done (some thought that he was done) because in a way it was rewarding him for all he did in the past one small contracts.
[ Edited by Gore_21 on Jul 16, 2012 at 3:26 PM ]
Originally posted by Gore_21:

To sum this up for anyone that's not following it comes down to being ok that you possibly overpay a player in that you are rewarding him for playing well on a small rookie contract.

Well, how "well" did Goldson really play in each of his first contract years? Granted, he was worth more than the meager 2 mil he received from last season. But did he really do much in the years prior to last? The 2 mil deal he received prior to last season says otherwise.. no?
Originally posted by oldman9er:
Well, how "well" did Goldson really play in each of his first contract years? Granted, he was worth more than the meager 2 mil he received from last season. But did he really do much in the years prior to last? The 2 mil deal he received prior to last season says otherwise.. no?

That's why I said even if you only factor in the 3 years of him starting and did the math for that (3 years started plus the 5 for the future) instead of all 5 so far plus 5 in the future. If you break it down even further you could do his two stand out years in 09 with 4 ints and 11 with 6 ints (plus 1 in the playoffs). Both those years you can't say he shouldn't have earned more then the 2 mil plus the 1 million for the other year or whatever the average for his rookie contract was. So that's why I kind of take it as overpaying is imo some times ok because you are rewarding for underpaying someone in the past. Just like Gore, guy busted his tail for what half a million a year... that's why I had no problem if we overpaid him later on. Not saying Goldson did as much as Gore but you get the point. Besides it's not like we were overpaying Goldson anyways. 5/35 is the going rate for safeties of his caliber. There are a handful of guys making that or more who aren't as good as he is. like I said if we did offer that and Goldson didn't take it that was foolish and greedy of him but at the same time you can't blame him for the going rate. Blame the other teams for overpaying safeties.
[ Edited by Gore_21 on Jul 16, 2012 at 3:43 PM ]