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Considering our additions at W.R. How would you rank Crabs as our W.R?

Considering our additions at W.R. How would you rank Crabs as our W.R?

@jacklegniner, Trust me, you are in no way picking on me.

The only real fact that you have is that he gets injured, which happens to a lot of players.
-Was he not a top 10 pick? -Has his production been anything other than lack-luster relative to that top ten pick? -Has not his work ethic been a question? -Has not his route running been in question? -Has he not had a problem getting separation? - I guess those aren't facts.

The last 3 are facts but irrelevant to what your trying to prove.
I think you misunderstand me. I'm not trying to "prove" anything. I'm simply making points relative to this thread. That given the off-season thus far Crabs is in serious jeopardy of depth chart demotion.

The FO did sign WR's but they had to.
Oh? You think? Could the play of the WR corps have anythingto do with that? Could Crabs have anything to do with that?

You even said yourself that Crabtree has no competition.
I was refering to when Morgan went down and Edwards was sent out packing. During that time the coaching staff handed him the #1 spot on a golden platter with no one but Swain to threaten him, yet he he did nothing prove to the world why we picked him 10th overall.

We also drafted a wr at #30 but we drafted a OLB last year with Aldon and he didn't start either. You would think that the #7 pick would have more pressure to start over the #30.
So true. But here's the huge difference: In front of Aldon was a real bona fide starter ahead of him by the name of Parys Haralson. While we needed a pass rusher, we didn't need Aldon to start right away. (1st rounders are starters no later than by year two.) Haralson may not be the elite passusher we hoped (though he did flash at times) but he was a solid starter and very good against the run. When Crabs was drafted it was expected by all that he would be THE "go to" WR because, frankly, we just didn't have a "go to" WR. We badly needed - and still do need - a go-to WR. Hense A. J. Jenkins.

And...again, if Crabtree was so bad how did he lead the team in stats? If he was given the job because the other guys were terrible, then wouldn't we have to sign guys in FA and the draft? If he had piss poor production, lazy work ethic, not into the playbook, and wasn't able to get seperation, how did he beat VD in stats, who has better chemistry with Alex and is Alex's favorite target?
Allow me to answer that with a question: If Crabs is our clear primary WR then why did Baalke and JH feel the need to bring in 3 WR FA's and draft a WR with our 1st pick?
It doesn't matter WHAT crbtre is. He is just one of the 5 potential receivers we will have on the field at any one time. What matters is what plays Coach calls and how well the guys on the field carry out the play that matters.. If you get open every play, catch every ball within reach, then that guy will be on the field virtually all the time. Right now we have no idea who is going to do what, and wth La Michael, i expect some sets, not seen before, and also i expect to see some guys literally uncovered because Coach now can unload the playbook and add a bunch of stuff highlighting a tailback in motion...a bit like Reggie Bush...except I expect even better.
[ Edited by pasodoc9er on May 1, 2012 at 3:24 PM ]
Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
Allow me to answer that with a question: If Crabs is our clear primary WR then why did Baalke and JH feel the need to bring in 3 WR FA's and draft a WR with our 1st pick?

I think it has more to do with the fact that Ginn, Williams, Swain, and Hastings were our only other WRs. None of those guys should be higher than a #4 on any team
Like Harbaugh said, it doesn't matter where a player was picked in the draft when the draft is over. He looked at Rachal last year and said to himself, son, you SUCK! Then he put his butt on the pine. He only got on the field for punts, PATs & field goals. He even screwed the pooch on those assignments. Every block and near block came through his assignment. Jimbo didn't give a rat's a$$ that he was drafted #2. He sent him packing just like Mays. The coaches only care if a player can do the best job. So what if Brady was picked in the 6th round. He showed that he was the best so Bledsoe went to the bench.
Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
@jacklegniner, Trust me, you are in no way picking on me.

The only real fact that you have is that he gets injured, which happens to a lot of players.
-Was he not a top 10 pick? -Has his production been anything other than lack-luster relative to that top ten pick? -Has not his work ethic been a question? -Has not his route running been in question? -Has he not had a problem getting separation? - I guess those aren't facts.

The last 3 are facts but irrelevant to what your trying to prove.
I think you misunderstand me. I'm not trying to "prove" anything. I'm simply making points relative to this thread. That given the off-season thus far Crabs is in serious jeopardy of depth chart demotion.

The FO did sign WR's but they had to.
Oh? You think? Could the play of the WR corps have anythingto do with that? Could Crabs have anything to do with that?

You even said yourself that Crabtree has no competition.
I was refering to when Morgan went down and Edwards was sent out packing. During that time the coaching staff handed him the #1 spot on a golden platter with no one but Swain to threaten him, yet he he did nothing prove to the world why we picked him 10th overall.

We also drafted a wr at #30 but we drafted a OLB last year with Aldon and he didn't start either. You would think that the #7 pick would have more pressure to start over the #30.
So true. But here's the huge difference: In front of Aldon was a real bona fide starter ahead of him by the name of Parys Haralson. While we needed a pass rusher, we didn't need Aldon to start right away. (1st rounders are starters no later than by year two.) Haralson may not be the elite passusher we hoped (though he did flash at times) but he was a solid starter and very good against the run. When Crabs was drafted it was expected by all that he would be THE "go to" WR because, frankly, we just didn't have a "go to" WR. We badly needed - and still do need - a go-to WR. Hense A. J. Jenkins.

And...again, if Crabtree was so bad how did he lead the team in stats? If he was given the job because the other guys were terrible, then wouldn't we have to sign guys in FA and the draft? If he had piss poor production, lazy work ethic, not into the playbook, and wasn't able to get seperation, how did he beat VD in stats, who has better chemistry with Alex and is Alex's favorite target?
Allow me to answer that with a question: If Crabs is our clear primary WR then why did Baalke and JH feel the need to bring in 3 WR FA's and draft a WR with our 1st pick?

It's all good! I can see we are not going to agree on much of this.


To the 1st question. Yes it is a fact that he was drafted in the top 10. But then you added on some other things to your statement like a "politician trying to pass a bill." I don't agree with any of the lack luster/ work ethic comments you made. If they are comments from webzoners than yeah I have heard them, but if they are comments from other team-mates or coaches, then I would consider it, but they are far from facts.

2nd, I guess every player, every year is in jeopardy of losing their starting job. That's the nature of the NFL. People like you though have been calling for his job every year or that we would trade him or now that it's a new regime they would care about his draft status but at the end of the day, coaches and players give him high praise, and he has been our leading wr since he got here.

3rd, I don't see the point. Yes they had to sign more wr's. Even if Crabtree put up Andre Johnson numbers they would still have had to sign more guys. Crabs and VD still did their part by putting up good stats. Edwards and Morgan got hurt and the other guys didn't do much. It's funny how Edwards and Morgan get looked over for getting hurt but when it comes to Crabtree, it's because he's lazy... yet the guy still led the team and he played hurt all year.

4th, how are we justifying who the staff considers who is #1, where they line up on the field??? At the end of the day I look at the production on the field. Crabtree has been our best guy every year he has been here.

5th, wr's take time to develop and Crabs has had a history of injury. It's sucks but it's the truth. Like someone else said, VD didn't get his crap together until his 4th year. Now everyone loves him. I think our offense is different than other teams. People want Calvin Johnson numbers out of Crabs but our offense doesn't pass nearly as much as Detroit, Green Bay or NO, etc... If Alex only threw for 3000 yards, how can Crabtree put up CJ stats. VD and Crabs already make up 50% of our passing offense. It's the other guys that aren't getting it done.

And the answer to your question although you dodged mine...

We brought in more Wr's because they other guys suck. If we have more playmakers than VD won't get double teamed all the time and Gore won't get 8 guys in the box. If Randy, Crabs, VD and Mario are on the field at the same time we should have some favorable one on one matchups. We drove down the field just fine in the regular season but we had problems in the redzone. We simply need more playmakers on the field to replace the Ginn's, Swains, Morgans, Hastings, and Edwards.
Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
Originally posted by 49erfeeeever808:
AJ is our best receiver already?


Vernon Davis is our best receiving option. I have my doubts about Moss, but if the winning continues, i think he'll be motivated. i don't know how some of you have Ginn over Williams. Ginn can't even catch the d*amn ball. still ticked about the last game, but Ginn is not better than Williams (***as a WR***)


1. Crabtree.
2. Moss (ONLY BECAUSE HE HASN'T PLAYING IN OVER A YEAR, WHAT HAVE YOU DONE FOR ME LATELY?!!?!)
2. Manningham.
4. Jenkins
5. Williams
6. Ginn (a WR that can't catch...... c'mon)

--------cut for final roster----------

7. Swain
8. My Grandma
9. Hastings.
I agree with you about Ginn. He is a WR in-name-only and will be used primarily as a returner. But I doubt we drafted a WR in the 1st to be anything other than our primary WR, certainly no worse than #2, or to complement anyone. A team with holes at WR don't draft a WR in the 1st to be #4 on the depth chart. Situational WR's aren't drafted in the 1st. You draft those guys in the 3rd, 4th, and 5th rounds.


IMO, that's what the depth chart will look like at the start of the season, things can change from there. Harbs knows how to use his teams strengths.
Originally posted by saniner:
Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
Allow me to answer that with a question: If Crabs is our clear primary WR then why did Baalke and JH feel the need to bring in 3 WR FA's and draft a WR with our 1st pick?

I think it has more to do with the fact that Ginn, Williams, Swain, and Hastings were our only other WRs. None of those guys should be higher than a #4 on any team
I'm not sure I Understand you here. Do you mean to suggest that our FA additions and 1st round draft selection had nothing to do with the play of Crabs but more to do with our WR depth?
feeeeever, I think it is going to be hard to make a list of our WRs as far as talent goes.WHY? Because i believe one of our best receivers is going to be LaMichael, and he isn't listed on the WR chart. Yet my gut feeling is he will be our #1 go to WR(altho he is obviously a RB). I fully expect to see WR sets that we haven't seen before, and further expect LaMichael to be in motion a lot. I cannot believe with the WRs above we do anything but split everyone out wide, except for la Michael. My guess is WRs will be playing in slots in different positions for different plays, based on their ability to play where each of a zillion different sets put them. I do not expect this O to look like any O we have seen here. Harbaugh is like sean payton in his concocting of plays. He is a genius in fact. (entirely different set of moral values, however). But i expect coach to have weird sets, motion sets, X playing at Z, Y playing at X and virtually motion on every play. It also means if we split our guys wide, frank is in for a great yr. I expect la michael to have double the yds receiving he has running. His RAC is going to be fascinating.

As for grading WRs in order, I just think we are going to see an Offense that makes everyone sit on the edge of his seat, wth WRs switching from one slot to another from play to play...and that is really tough on a D. Eventually we will find out who gets open the best, who catches errant passes the best, who catches those balls that hit the WR right in the numbers...but i don't think any of that is predetermined. I also think Harbaugh will do his best to get all pass catchers the ball essentially equal amounts of times. If say crabs is best in slot but suddenly splits wide on other side, who does the D cover, and how.? That is how i think Coach is going to use all ball catchers(WRs ,RBs,TEs). This yr we get to see just how good his play calling is. At stanford it was truly remarkable, last yr he had very few options, and this yr is going to be fascinating... for all of us.
[ Edited by pasodoc9er on May 1, 2012 at 8:49 PM ]
It's all good! I can see we are not going to agree on much of this.
Agreed
[ Edited by 9ersLiferInChicago on May 1, 2012 at 9:04 PM ]
  • cools
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His coaches and teamates think he's going to be a star, Im going with that.

The # tag dont mean a thing, He will be starting. Im sure Moss. Mario and Jenkins are going to get a nice slice of the pie too

btw, Manningham needs to get a real number, please dont ware 14!!!
Byham and Reuland need to give up those good WR #'s 82 and 88 and give em to Mario and Jenkins
[ Edited by cools on May 1, 2012 at 11:32 PM ]
Many have mentioned all the new weapons, and that is certainly a good thing, but the old weapons may be more important early in the season due to comfort with the system. Crabtree and Williams may be playing a lot unless Moss and Manningham have very good learning ability. So I can't see MC and KW not making the team. That leaves three spots likely for active use and one inactive, I hope. Owuzu is the most intriguing UDFA and was not drafted due to concussions.

Would still like to see the niners go after a tall receiver (next year?). Smith has already mentioned how nice it is to have Moss as such a great target.
Originally posted by cools:
His coaches and teamates think he's going to be a star, Im going with that.

The # tag dont mean a thing, He will be starting. Im sure Moss. Mario and Jenkins are going to get a nice slice of the pie too

btw, Manningham needs to get a real number, please dont ware 14!!!
Byham and Reuland need to give up those good WR #'s 82 and 88 and give em to Mario and Jenkins
I've never like non-80's number on WR's. The NFL should have a rule that WR's have 80's numbers
If Crabs misses camp AGAIN, for any reason, he won't be in the top three at the start of the season. IMO, he has been our #1 receiver because we lacked talent at that position. Hind sight being 20/20, I doubt that he would be a first round pick by any team. I think he'd be a third round pick at best.
Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
Originally posted by saniner:
Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
Allow me to answer that with a question: If Crabs is our clear primary WR then why did Baalke and JH feel the need to bring in 3 WR FA's and draft a WR with our 1st pick?

I think it has more to do with the fact that Ginn, Williams, Swain, and Hastings were our only other WRs. None of those guys should be higher than a #4 on any team
I'm not sure I Understand you here. Do you mean to suggest that our FA additions and 1st round draft selection had nothing to do with the play of Crabs but more to do with our WR depth?

More to do with depth than the play of Crabs.
Between Crabs and Moss. I would say our new rookie receiver... But we diden't draft Hill or Quick. So yes Crabs is our #1