Considering our additions at W.R. How would you rank Crabs as our W.R?

Originally posted by natrone06:

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
Lets take a tally of the facts:

Item: Top 10 pick of a failed ragime
Item: Piss poor production
Item: Lazy/poor workethic
Item: Not into the playbook, and it shows
Item: Inability to gain separation, even against average DB's
Item: Not really committed
Item: Often injured
Item: Didn't show when handed the #1 spot basically completion free
Item: FO singed multiple FA WR's (and likely more)
Item: With the 30th pick of the 2012 NFL draft the San Francisco 49ers select A. J. Jenkins, WR, University of Illinois
Item: By all accounts JH & Co. seeks to become more explosive on offense

How many can still think that Crabs is our best option at WR, and our 1st rounder is no better than 3rd or 4th on the depth chart, given the above facts, strains my comprehension. To be sure, we all have a right to our own opinions. But no one has a right to their own facts. And given these facts I can't see the coaching staff feeling confident at all in Crabs as our primary WR going forward. Now I'm not saying that people have to agree with me. But in my humble opinion, one would have to ignore, or at least discard, the above facts to think that one Michael Crabtree will continue to be our primary WR. In my opinion, in order for Crabs to be the 49ers primary option - the #1 - WR in 2012 and beyond he is going to have to do a complete 180 in his production, work ethic, commitment, playbook study, WR skills (e.g. just getting open), etc. I don't know about anyone else but I have no evidence that Crabs will be able to make such a 180. I have no reason to believe that type of change is in him. I just don't see it.

This is going to sound like a stupid question but based on what you just wrote I have to ask. Do you know the difference between facts and opinions?

Ok:

-Was he not a top 10 pick?
-Has his production been anything other than lack-luster relative to that top ten pick?
-Has not his work ethic been a question?
-Has not his route running been in question?
-Has he not had a problem getting separation?
-**Opinion** Based on what I've observed and read it don't appear he's bought into JH and the concept of "team", so I question his commitment.
-Has he not been often injured (which has been one of the many excuses for him)?
-When Edwards was sent packing, Morgan out for the season, and only Swain as the only damger to Crabtree touches, did Crabs do anything to distinguish himself as the clear #1?
-Did the front office not sign multiple WR FA's, one with known concussion issues?
-Did we not use our 1st pick on a WR?
**Opinion** Based on our first two picks and post draft pressers I believe JH & Co. seeks to be more explosive on offense

If those are opinions (save for the two) then there's no such thing as facts.

Originally posted by overthemiddle:
Finally a writer that isnt afraid to say something about Crabs. If Moss and Jenkins prove out Crab will be no better then fourth string. For all you Crab lovers get real he is not a good receiver but he was the best we had and that just goes to show you how bad our receivers corps were last year.

http://www.sfexaminer.com/sports/nfl/2012/04/crabtree-thin-ice-49ers-gain-target

LOL. I don't see how it can be both ways. If Crabs merely beats out a bad wr corp, doesn't that show that we need to upgrade the other wr's to help him and VD out. But then when we sign Moss, Mario and draft Jenkins, you guys spin it into "Baalke and Harbs don't like his poor work ethic and they are trying to get rid of him." When Baalke first got hired he didn't hide his feelings on Alex, Alex needed to get better, period! Yet when Baalke says Crabtree is going to shine this year, we are supposed to listen to the joker that wrote this article...

Every year Crabtree hasn't had that much talent around him yet he still will lead the team in stats. Some say it's because there is no one esle to throw it to but in the same sentence they will say Morgan is better. If Morgan or any other wr was better they would put up better stats! And if they put up better stats than Crabtree, those stats would look something like one of the dominate wr's of the NFL. So if Crabtree beat that guy out, wouldn't that contradict him beating out a bunch of scrubs at wr????

And please, everyone, stop comparing #1 wr's and Crabtree and Calvin Johnson. No one is like Calvin Johnson. If all 1st round wr's had to perform like CJ than yeah, cut them all, because no one is going to be Calvin Johnson........

This artical hits on a lot of my points. I believe someone already posted the link, but I think it warrents a physical quote:

This should be a very uncomfortable offseason for Michael Crabtree as the 49ers have signed free-agent receivers Randy Moss and Mario Manningham and drafted A.J. Jenkins out of Illinois in the first round. The message is clear: Quit whining and start playing or you'll be on the bench.

Crabtree has been a problem ever since he was drafted by the 49ers in 2009. He sulked and refused to sign until five games had been played because he thought he should have been drafted earlier and received the contract he would have gotten if he had. Finally, the 49ers offered another year on his contract, which helped them, not him.

NFL contracts are all basically one-year contracts with a club option for each succeeding year. That's why agents negotiate large signing bonuses because that's real money in the player's hands. The fact that Crabtree thought this was a concession from the 49ers was our first indication that he's not very smart.

Since then, there have been other problems. Some of them have been physical, which is not Crabtree's fault. But there have been many times when he's run the wrong patterns, which makes the quarterback look bad. To Alex Smith's credit, he has never blamed Crabtree, but he can't have much confidence in him, either.

The Crabtree problem intensified in the postseason. It wasn't so obvious in the first game with the New Orleans Saints, which the 49ers won with two long touchdown drives in the final four minutes. Vernon Davis made some big catches and Smith bootlegged for 29 yards for the second touchdown.

In the championship game, though, the New York Giants double- and even triple-covered Davis in the second half, knowing he was Smith's only reliable receiver. That should have left openings for Crabtree, but he couldn't get open. He had only five catches for 28 yards in the two postseason games combined.

After the championship game, he complained that Smith didn't give him a chance to "make plays," by which he meant that the QB should have thrown the ball up for grabs and hoped that Crabtree caught it. That's the very opposite of what coach Jim Harbaugh wants because that kind of pass is often intercepted.

Jenkins appears to be the polar opposite to Crabtree. He's intelligent, on the Big Ten Conference's All-Academic team. He's a very hard worker, according to his former coach, Ron Zook. He's also got breakaway speed, which Crabtree lacks, and has the ability to either catch a ball behind defenders or catch a shorter pass and take it the distance — which sounds a lot like John Taylor.

It seems that Jenkins and Moss will provide deep-ball threats, along with Davis. Manningham, who has made big catches in the Super Bowl and against the Niners in that NFC Championship Game, is more of a possession receiver. And the Niners will be able to use Davis and Delanie Walker, injured late last season, in two-tight end sets.

There's still a spot for Crabtree, if he works diligently on his routes, so Smith can rely on him. But, that means checking his attitude at the locker room door — unless he relishes watching from the bench.Glenn Dickey has been covering Bay Area sports since 1963 and also writes on www.GlennDickey.com. Email him at [email protected].

Read more at the San Francisco Examiner: http://www.sfexaminer.com/sports/nfl/2012/04/crabtree-thin-ice-49ers-gain-target#ixzz1te3ex7pO

He is our clear cut one this year. All the haters need to get a damn clue.

Originally posted by StOnEy333:
Yup. Crabtree is the #1 and will see the most action. I think Moss and Manningham will spit time at the #2 and #3 spots. Mix in some Jenkins and whoever else every now and then.

I agree. Although I would keep Manningham in the slot and Moss #2 and sub him with Jenkins ever now and again

Originally posted by sacniner:
He is our clear cut one this year. All the haters need to get a damn clue.

"Haters". Now there's one over used word. With the FA signings and a 1st round WR selection I fail to see how Crabs' presumed #1 status can be "clear cut". At best it's in doubt, and at worst he's 4th on the depth chart. But hey, what do I know. I'm just a guy with an opinion.

Originally posted by StOnEy333:
Yup. Crabtree is the #1 and will see the most action. I think Moss and Manningham will spit time at the #2 and #3 spots. Mix in some Jenkins and whoever else every now and then.

I fail to see how a team with serious WR needs uses it's 1st pick on a WR only to put him 4th on the depth chart and to use him "and whoever else every now and then". I think that would go down as one of the worse uses of a 1st round draft pick in the history of the NFL. But hey, what do I know. I'm just a guy with an opinion.

Originally posted by walker807:
Crabtree has always been a little better than his competition on the depth chart. Up until now that competition has basically only been Josh Morgan. My hope is that the level of competition with the current depth chart will force Crabtree to raise his game. I can't think of one specific time from when Crabs was drafted to now that he had any real legitimate competition for the #1 roll, its basically been his by default because everyone else either sucked or was injured. Not any more, hes going to have to work to keep the job for the first time in his career.

This.

Crabtree has had better stats his 1st 3 years than VD had, who as we all know broke out in his 4th after underwhelming in his first 3. Singletary lit a fire under his ass and I'm expecting the same thing to happen this year with Crabs. He's going to be healthy and have a full off-season and a LOT of other quality receivers will be pushing to take away his playing time for once in his career. He has the talent and if he can't put it together this season than he is going to be standing on the sidelines when it counts. I think he does put it together.

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:

Originally posted by natrone06:

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
Lets take a tally of the facts:

Item: Top 10 pick of a failed ragime
Item: Piss poor production
Item: Lazy/poor workethic
Item: Not into the playbook, and it shows
Item: Inability to gain separation, even against average DB's
Item: Not really committed
Item: Often injured
Item: Didn't show when handed the #1 spot basically completion free
Item: FO singed multiple FA WR's (and likely more)
Item: With the 30th pick of the 2012 NFL draft the San Francisco 49ers select A. J. Jenkins, WR, University of Illinois
Item: By all accounts JH & Co. seeks to become more explosive on offense

How many can still think that Crabs is our best option at WR, and our 1st rounder is no better than 3rd or 4th on the depth chart, given the above facts, strains my comprehension. To be sure, we all have a right to our own opinions. But no one has a right to their own facts. And given these facts I can't see the coaching staff feeling confident at all in Crabs as our primary WR going forward. Now I'm not saying that people have to agree with me. But in my humble opinion, one would have to ignore, or at least discard, the above facts to think that one Michael Crabtree will continue to be our primary WR. In my opinion, in order for Crabs to be the 49ers primary option - the #1 - WR in 2012 and beyond he is going to have to do a complete 180 in his production, work ethic, commitment, playbook study, WR skills (e.g. just getting open), etc. I don't know about anyone else but I have no evidence that Crabs will be able to make such a 180. I have no reason to believe that type of change is in him. I just don't see it.

This is going to sound like a stupid question but based on what you just wrote I have to ask. Do you know the difference between facts and opinions?

Ok:

-Was he not a top 10 pick?
-Has his production been anything other than lack-luster relative to that top ten pick?
-Has not his work ethic been a question?
-Has not his route running been in question?
-Has he not had a problem getting separation?
-**Opinion** Based on what I've observed and read it don't appear he's bought into JH and the concept of "team", so I question his commitment.
-Has he not been often injured (which has been one of the many excuses for him)?
-When Edwards was sent packing, Morgan out for the season, and only Swain as the only damger to Crabtree touches, did Crabs do anything to distinguish himself as the clear #1?
-Did the front office not sign multiple WR FA's, one with known concussion issues?
-Did we not use our 1st pick on a WR?
**Opinion** Based on our first two picks and post draft pressers I believe JH & Co. seeks to be more explosive on offense

If those are opinions (save for the two) then there's no such thing as facts.

Not picking on you, but you are wayyyyyyyyyy off!

The only real fact that you have is that he gets injured, which happens to a lot of players.

The last 3 are facts but irrelevant to what your trying to prove. The FO did sign WR's but they had to. You even said yourself that Crabtree has no competition.

We also drafted a wr at #30 but we drafted a OLB last year with Aldon and he didn't start either. You would think that the #7 pick would have more pressure to start over the #30.

And...again, if Crabtree was so bad how did he lead the team in stats? If he was given the job because the other guys were terrible, then wouldn't we have to sign guys in FA and the draft? If he had piss poor production, lazy work ethic, not into the playbook, and wasn't able to get seperation, how did he beat VD in stats, who has better chemistry with Alex and is Alex's favorite target?

Whats kind of sad from a niners standpoint but scary from a potential standpoint is this. No matter what anyone here thinks or says, Crabtree has been this teams best WR since T.O. and he has been so without even needing to try hard.

Originally posted by SaksV:
Crabtree and Moss will be listed as gameday starters but Manningham will play more "X" in base formation with Crabtree at "Z"....


When they go 3-wide, Manningham/Crabtree slide to the Slot and Moss goes to "Z".

In 4-wide (rare formation for Roman's offence from what I saw last season) A.J. Jenkins will play "X", Moss "Z" and Crabs/Manningham/Walker will alternate at Slot

In passing situations out of running formations, Crabtree plays the lone-WR position with Delanie Walker at H-Back

If Moss & Crabtree/Manningham are on the field at the same time, look for Roman to align them on the same side of the formation often to create great passing windows by using Moss' speed combined with Crabtree and Mario's ability to change direction and run underneath combination routes.

Ted Ginn doesn't come into the game at WR unless we're running Fly Sweeps or Hail Mary types situations which preserves him at KR/PR

Kyle Williams gets cut....I don't see the team bringing 6 WRs into the regular season. He's already fumbled away his hopes of playing reserve KR/PR.. The only reason they would keep him is for his skills in the slot but with the addition of LaMichael James and Kendall Hunter, they can get pass production from those too by splitting them out wide...

Just my take....

Great take!

Not sure how ppl don't think Moss will make the team...from Day 1 he's already our most polished WR and he's clearly in shape and still has his speed. No brainer here. And now he seems motivated and humble and putting in the work?

Well, here's another thot. I don't think we yet have all the WRs in camp that we are going to keep for the yr. Look at the FAs, some of whom are not too shabby,
(eg Wallace) who may just get p.o.ed and sign elsewhere for just a tiny bit more money than he makes now. My real gut feel is that Coach still has some UDFA WRs in mind that no one has heard about, and are still waiting for a try out. It wouldn't surprise me if we see at least one, maybe two more WRs added to our WR list, and then you can discuss crbtre. I don't think Harbaugh is done yet guys.

i dont think Crabs is as bad as most of you make him out to be. he'll be a starter this year. with other threats around him he will be way better and hopefully another year in the same offense will do him some good. i dont think he really understood the offense last year til late in the season. crabs, manningham and moss will be our top three receivers with some jenkins sprinkled in to get his feet wet. if jenkins takes the offense in pretty fast i think he'll be in the mix as well.

Originally posted by Chief:

Wonderful and appropriate image! Thanks.