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Vic Fangio's second year defenses and beyond

Originally posted by baltien:
1) We need more/better rotation on the d-line. In my mind, Justin Smith is probably the only player doesn't need to come out. The rest got worn down as the season went on and it showed big time. Aldon Smith especially.

2) Our safeties hit like trucks, but that's about it. Although I am in favor of bringing Goldson back, I'm not too much of a fan to admit that both he and Whitner are are a bit overrated. Again, they clean clocks for sure but they are FREQUENTLY lost in coverage. The media may have hyped our defense but other teams weren't fooled at all. Not hard to figure out why we gave up so many big plays over the middle.

3) We need an upgrade at CB. Not saying he has to be an all-world prototypical "shut down corner" although that would be nice (hoping for Revis). At this point, I'd settle for someone that can handle himself in press coverage and remembers to turn around when the ball is in the air (Chris Culliver, I'm looking at you). Danny Amendola aside, I actually think Carlos Rogers had a good year. I like Brown too, although he does tend to have the occasional lapse.

Really, I don't care whether it comes through the draft or free agency but we need another quality starter at corner BAD.

4) Personnel aside I would like to see us blitz more. It seems to me like whenever we aren't able to get pressure bringing four, we don't do anything to compensate. We just keep running our guys into walls in hopes that something will change.

Yes, exactly. The last point seems to reflect on the staff.
Originally posted by real9erfan:
Originally posted by Joecool:
I wonder if Cully can make a switch to FS and move Goldson to SS or just have them be do-it-all safeties.


That would be more of an experiment, and I'm not sure we really want to experiment with players right now. We need to shore up the DL, so we have better DL rotation which will allow us to bring more pressure, and if we can address the secondary, it would be good to have a true shut down corner.

I think experiment stuff is over rated. He played Safety in college. Bruce Miller was able to make a switch from DE to FB. It's not an experiment if the player can handle the position and that will quickly be known in Training Camp.

It will only take a couple of weeks to find out if he can make it happen or if he will struggle. Just because Alex Smith took so long doesn't mean every player requires time.
[ Edited by Joecool on Feb 7, 2013 at 11:33 AM ]
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by real9erfan:
Originally posted by Joecool:
I wonder if Cully can make a switch to FS and move Goldson to SS or just have them be do-it-all safeties.


That would be more of an experiment, and I'm not sure we really want to experiment with players right now. We need to shore up the DL, so we have better DL rotation which will allow us to bring more pressure, and if we can address the secondary, it would be good to have a true shut down corner.

I think experiment stuff is over rated. He played Safety in college. Bruce Miller was able to make a switch from DE to FB. It's not an experiment if the player can handle the position and that will quickly be known in Training Camp.

It will only take a couple of weeks to find out if he can make it happen or if he will struggle. Just because Alex Smith took so long doesn't mean every player requires time.


I see your point. Although with Bruce Miller that was at a time when the 49ers were bringing in a whole new system anyway and the team wasn't expected to make any kind of Super Bowl run. Now the expectations are Super Bowl or bust, and in those situations teams are generally not likely to try new positions for players.
Originally posted by Joecool:
I wonder if Cully can make a switch to FS and move Goldson to SS or just have them be do-it-all safeties.

I think as Rogers gets older, he would move to FS for us before Cully is moved.

either way its kind of worrying... I mean.. I couldn't help but think about this thread through out the playoffs.

I'm not sure if its true, but I'm pretty sure we have the most $$$ invested in our defensive personnel in the league...or for sure top 2-3.

with this much $$$ investment and potentially more with Goldson (which I REALLY WANT) but with all that, how much longer can the Front Office accept if our defense plays inconsistent like it has recently.


right now, I feel we are stacked at Offense and Defense to the point where it is only the coaching staff that could possibly be holding us back.
[ Edited by Afrikan on Feb 7, 2013 at 12:06 PM ]
Originally posted by real9erfan:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by real9erfan:
Originally posted by Joecool:
I wonder if Cully can make a switch to FS and move Goldson to SS or just have them be do-it-all safeties.


That would be more of an experiment, and I'm not sure we really want to experiment with players right now. We need to shore up the DL, so we have better DL rotation which will allow us to bring more pressure, and if we can address the secondary, it would be good to have a true shut down corner.

I think experiment stuff is over rated. He played Safety in college. Bruce Miller was able to make a switch from DE to FB. It's not an experiment if the player can handle the position and that will quickly be known in Training Camp.

It will only take a couple of weeks to find out if he can make it happen or if he will struggle. Just because Alex Smith took so long doesn't mean every player requires time.


I see your point. Although with Bruce Miller that was at a time when the 49ers were bringing in a whole new system anyway and the team wasn't expected to make any kind of Super Bowl run. Now the expectations are Super Bowl or bust, and in those situations teams are generally not likely to try new positions for players.

Didn't the 81 team win with 3 rookie DB's? NYG first Manning SB had 9 rookie key contributors. It won't take long to see if a player can or can't handle it.
Originally posted by baltien:
1) We need more/better rotation on the d-line. In my mind, Justin Smith is probably the only player doesn't need to come out. The rest got worn down as the season went on and it showed big time. Aldon Smith especially.

2) Our safeties hit like trucks, but that's about it. Although I am in favor of bringing Goldson back, I'm not too much of a fan to admit that both he and Whitner are are a bit overrated. Again, they clean clocks for sure but they are FREQUENTLY lost in coverage. The media may have hyped our defense but other teams weren't fooled at all. Not hard to figure out why we gave up so many big plays over the middle.

3) We need an upgrade at CB. Not saying he has to be an all-world prototypical "shut down corner" although that would be nice (hoping for Revis). At this point, I'd settle for someone that can handle himself in press coverage and remembers to turn around when the ball is in the air (Chris Culliver, I'm looking at you). Danny Amendola aside, I actually think Carlos Rogers had a good year. I like Brown too, although he does tend to have the occasional lapse.

Really, I don't care whether it comes through the draft or free agency but we need another quality starter at corner BAD.

4) Personnel aside I would like to see us blitz more. It seems to me like whenever we aren't able to get pressure bringing four, we don't do anything to compensate. We just keep running our guys into walls in hopes that something will change.
exactly good point
WHen discussing the let down of 9er d in the last few weeks, here's a point to keep in mind from the draft forum:

Defensive ends Justin Smith and Ray McDonald have each logged more than 2,000 regular-season and postseason snaps over the past two seasons. Only three players have logged more than them over that span.
Originally posted by JTsBiggestFan:
BTW, with regards to turnovers....

People seem to forget:

GREEN BAY had as MANY takeaways as us during the regular season!

No one would equate them to having a D like our D, but it's interesting to put that in perspective when people just look at 49er defense as a turnover machine.

GB got all those turnovers because they put teams in bad situations. We got those turnovers through brute force D, and some luck I suppose.

Rarely did we have huge leads. And when we did get TOs, how often did we convert for TDs, let alone FGs?


There is more to a top defensive ranking than TO's see link http://www.sportsbookgurus.com/sports/nfl/defensive-stats.html
Originally posted by baltien:
1) We need more/better rotation on the d-line. In my mind, Justin Smith is probably the only player doesn't need to come out. The rest got worn down as the season went on and it showed big time. Aldon Smith especially.

2) Our safeties hit like trucks, but that's about it. Although I am in favor of bringing Goldson back, I'm not too much of a fan to admit that both he and Whitner are are a bit overrated. Again, they clean clocks for sure but they are FREQUENTLY lost in coverage. The media may have hyped our defense but other teams weren't fooled at all. Not hard to figure out why we gave up so many big plays over the middle.

3) We need an upgrade at CB. Not saying he has to be an all-world prototypical "shut down corner" although that would be nice (hoping for Revis). At this point, I'd settle for someone that can handle himself in press coverage and remembers to turn around when the ball is in the air (Chris Culliver, I'm looking at you). Danny Amendola aside, I actually think Carlos Rogers had a good year. I like Brown too, although he does tend to have the occasional lapse.

Really, I don't care whether it comes through the draft or free agency but we need another quality starter at corner BAD.

4) Personnel aside I would like to see us blitz more. It seems to me like whenever we aren't able to get pressure bringing four, we don't do anything to compensate. We just keep running our guys into walls in hopes that something will change.

Drafting Margus Hunt DE/DT would be great while in nickle. Bacarri Rambo SS would help our secondary!
Bump
  • Liono
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 452
I think a lot of this has to do with how much talent the team has. The niners are one of the best up front, but our corners are not very good, I think we must have the most penalized secondary in the NFL. Carlos Rogers was a one year wonder, and has been medicore ever since getting that big contract. The defense is ok, but not the dominant force it was a couple of years ago. We really need our offense to click to win games.
[ Edited by Liono on Sep 22, 2013 at 1:45 PM ]
Originally posted by Chief:
Bump

Let the game play out man lol
Originally posted by ads_2006:
Originally posted by Chief:
Bump

Let the game play out man lol

Well, he seems to be following his career pattern.
Originally posted by Chief:
Originally posted by ads_2006:
Originally posted by Chief:
Bump

Let the game play out man lol

Well, he seems to be following his career pattern.

A long season left, but I agree. It's not going in the right direction so far.
Defense seems a BIT soft. Teams are running right up the middle, passes are caugth with ease. Wow what's happened to us. We've been figured out on both sides of the ball.