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2012 49ers WR Corps

Originally posted by DirtyP:
I never said I wouldn't forgive Kyle Williams, I think he is a very good 4th receiver, if that makes sense. But lets be real, how can you say he was not the primary reason we lost? The defense played lights out and Kyle Williams took at least 2 possessions away from the offense. Kyle Williams cost us an incredible season with a combination of bonehead mistakes and an inability to get open consistently.

Kyle Williams fumbles punt, sacrificing good field position and an excellent opportunity to add to our lead. Our offense was starting to move the ball and we looked like we were about to put at least 3 more on the board. Giants score the go ahead touchdown off of the turnover. This is also known as a 10 point swing.

Kyle Williams fumbles punt after the defense forces 2 straight turnovers in OT, putting the Giants offense inside the 30 and practically sealing the game. Had Kyle Williams not fumbled the 49ers would have been in great field position again.

Kyle Williams contributes 0 catches for 0 yards while starting the game. On punt returns, he mishandled or misjudged every play he was out there. He dove for a catch in the rain when he could have just let it go, he was completely unready for the stage he was on.

Its hard to argue Kyle Williams did not end the season when if you take any one of the above mistakes out of the game we probably advance to the Super Bowl as the favorites

When I say Kyle Williams is a scrub with some speed I meant that slightly sarcastically, but if he was anything significantly more I think we would have seen a bit more from him at this point. And yes he would probably flourish in NE, just like many scrubs with speed do.

Because there was more factors then just the fumbles that cost us the game. Goldson knocking out his own players costing 2 interceptions on scoring drives is a start. He also cost us a starting Cornerback, IIRC the backup that was in for our now "injured" starter was covering or trying to cover the receiver who caught the next TD, thats 7 points right there a full difference in the game already. Simply said what coaches say about you win as a team and lose as a team comes out to be a fact, anyone who thinks otherwise must not understand the concept of a team sport.
Originally posted by jreff22:
To go a step further do we keep 5 or 6 on the final roster..and how many will dress?

If Moss does flame out I don't see it in camp...would be later in the year.

Based on what transpired last season it would be wise to keep 6 WR's on the final roster.
Originally posted by defenderDX:
Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
Originally posted by defenderDX:
Originally posted by Daniel2778:
agreed. we need to pick up at least 2 WR's in the draft

2?
yes 2. Crabs, Moss, Manningham, Ginn, High draft pick, mid to low draft pick. i think were keepin 6

We have williams too dude.. and he's a solid WR in terms of depth.

Moss, Crabs, Manningham, Williams, Ginn, + 2 more? that's 7. plus we still have VD and Walker.
i dont think Williams will make the team. they need more size with manningham and moss being smaller build guys. moss is huge but he probably weighs as much as williams. i think they need to restock the WR corps. williams just seems like the odd man out even without the fumbles. he was a decent WR but they need more impact from the position
Originally posted by LoneWolf:
Because there was more factors then just the fumbles that cost us the game. Goldson knocking out his own players costing 2 interceptions on scoring drives is a start. He also cost us a starting Cornerback, IIRC the backup that was in for our now "injured" starter was covering or trying to cover the receiver who caught the next TD, thats 7 points right there a full difference in the game already. Simply said what coaches say about you win as a team and lose as a team comes out to be a fact, anyone who thinks otherwise must not understand the concept of a team sport.

No one said there were not other factors leading to the loss. You are projecting my over all understanding of the game because I hold Kyle Williams more responsible than any other player for the loss against the Giants. To set the stage, the only reason I said any of this about Kyle Williams was because someone said he would like to get rid of Crabtree because he sucks and that Kyle Williams should start because he is solid. I do not dislike Kyle Williams overall.

Yes Dashon Goldson contributed to the loss, but he also was the starting FS in a defense that held the Giants elite offense to 17 points through 60 minutes.

You are overstanding the concept of a team sport. The team, minus Kyle Williams, played well enough to win. Williams took possessions away from the 49ers, gave the Giants points and just had a bad overall performance. Why on earth you don't understand that contributed to the loss much more than anything else that happened in the game is beyond me. Don't bother explaining the concept of team wins and team losses, I have a good understanding of that. Using that perspective to ignore individual responsibility is not what sportsmanship is about.

The great Bill Walsh preached that there was absolutely no excuse for fumbling the ball.
[ Edited by DirtyP on Mar 25, 2012 at 1:48 PM ]
Originally posted by DirtyP:
No one said there were not other factors leading to the loss. You are projecting my over all understanding of the game because I hold Kyle Williams more responsible than any other player for the loss against the Giants. To set the stage, the only reason I said any of this about Kyle Williams was because someone said he would like to get rid of Crabtree because he sucks and that Kyle Williams should start because he is solid. I do not dislike Kyle Williams overall.

Yes Dashon Goldson contributed to the loss, but he also was the starting FS in a defense that held the Giants elite offense to 17 points through 60 minutes.

You are overstanding the concept of a team sport. The team, minus Kyle Williams, played well enough to win. Williams took possessions away from the 49ers, gave the Giants points and just had a bad overall performance. Why on earth you don't understand that contributed to the loss much more than anything else that happened in the game is beyond me. Don't bother explaining the concept of team wins and team losses, I have a good understanding of that. Using that perspective to ignore individual responsibility is not what sportsmanship is about.

Using an individuals mistakes to blame them for the loss of a game, and turning a blind eye to the rest of the factors that lead to the loss of a game aren't what sportsmanship is about either, but I'm sure you already know that already. Yes Goldson was a starting FS (not exactly sure what the relevense to him being a starter is) but without his wreckless play I believe he would have contributed to holding the Giants elite offense to either 7 or 10 points.


Anyways back on subject, Crabtree does not suck in anyway I can agree with you on that for sure, but I'm not sure if he will ever mesh well with this team in specific. He seems to be the kind of receiver that would fit better on a passing attack that passes more then 50% of the time. Even though we are trying to load up our WR the best we can on a budget. We will never be a hardcore passing attack that is glorified now in the NFL. I think that is part of the reason the team doesnt feel its absolutely necessary to go after a bunch of deep threat receivers. While Wallace would have been a great pickup he hasn't earned Fitz type money. I almost think it might be a good idea for the team to bring Edwards back as TC try out to make the team, doesn't make the team, oh well no harm done, if he does it means he actually earned it over some good receivers, as compared to last year were it wasnt much competetition.
LOL Dirty yourgrasping st straws with your argument man....You really tried to say that Crabtree contributed with his one catch?

Dude was shut down and dominated by the giants third CB....LOL....

Somene else on here tried telling me once that VD was only good because crabtree draws the double.....LOL...

KW is the future at the SLOT position...book it.
Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
LOL Dirty yourgrasping st straws with your argument man....You really tried to say that Crabtree contributed with his one catch?

Dude was shut down and dominated by the giants third CB....LOL....

Somene else on here tried telling me once that VD was only good because crabtree draws the double.....LOL...

KW is the future at the SLOT position...book it.
wont manninham play slot? with crabs and moss on outside
Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
wont manninham play slot? with crabs and moss on outside

Not sure of where but I would bet Crabs will have his best success over the middle.
  • dj43
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 20,131
Overall this current group is a bit better than last year going into TC. A bit, not a lot.

Moss is roughly the equivalent of Edwards last season. He is a hope that his height will be useful and that his attitude will be a thing of the past. A hope. Not a sure thing. What he has done in the past is irrelevant to the discussion. He brought very little to the game two years ago and was not considered good enough for anyone to sign him last season. The 49ers were realistic in signing him to a contract that allows them to bring him into TC for a look and if he has nothing left, they cut him without paying a dime. Anything he brings will be a bonus. What I see with Moss is Baalke/Harbaugh recognizes a critical need for the team and making a zero risk move with a guy who MIGHT help solve their red zone problems. I don't expect Moss to be the only move they make. Draft pick coming.

Manningham is a better known version of Joshua Morgan. Better is some areas. Not so good in others.

I expect a good deal more out of both Williams and Crabtree. If the WRs are going to be markedly better than years past it will be because these guys have been healthy in TC and developed the trust and chemistry with Smith to be productive. Crabtree is still an untapped talent due to his own bad decision-making and health issues. I expect those to be a thing of the past and his production to go up.

Same thing for Williams. I expect him to earn the starting slot job and become a solid component of the offense. 20+ snaps/game with 600+ yards, 7 TDs.

I do expect the FO to draft a big, fast receiver as well as a pure speed guy. There are some smurfs in the middle rounds that can fly and would be fun to watch.

An unsung part of the passing game that will be very important is who plays RG. The passing numbers will not be appreciably better if the center of the line continues to get collapsed back into the QBs face every time we face a good NT/DT. Snyder was a culprit much of the time and Goodwin was also culpable in that regard. Both positions need to be improved...but that is another thread.
Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
LOL Dirty yourgrasping st straws with your argument man....You really tried to say that Crabtree contributed with his one catch?

Dude was shut down and dominated by the giants third CB....LOL....

Somene else on here tried telling me once that VD was only good because crabtree draws the double.....LOL...

KW is the future at the SLOT position...book it.
wont manninham play slot? with crabs and moss on outside

No.
Usually think of the slot receiver as a quick, mobile guy who can work the under routes, take advantage of picks or setting them, and use movement to get off the line quickly...good safety valves for the QB. Williams is as close to that as the 9ers have, with Crabtree being next. Don't see Moss or Manningham in that light.

But honestly, teams will find a way to get the best receivers out their no matter their size, etc.
Originally posted by dj43:
Overall this current group is a bit better than last year going into TC. A bit, not a lot.

Moss is roughly the equivalent of Edwards last season. He is a hope that his height will be useful and that his attitude will be a thing of the past. A hope. Not a sure thing. What he has done in the past is irrelevant to the discussion. He brought very little to the game two years ago and was not considered good enough for anyone to sign him last season. The 49ers were realistic in signing him to a contract that allows them to bring him into TC for a look and if he has nothing left, they cut him without paying a dime. Anything he brings will be a bonus. What I see with Moss is Baalke/Harbaugh recognizes a critical need for the team and making a zero risk move with a guy who MIGHT help solve their red zone problems. I don't expect Moss to be the only move they make. Draft pick coming.

Manningham is a better known version of Joshua Morgan. Better is some areas. Not so good in others.

I expect a good deal more out of both Williams and Crabtree. If the WRs are going to be markedly better than years past it will be because these guys have been healthy in TC and developed the trust and chemistry with Smith to be productive. Crabtree is still an untapped talent due to his own bad decision-making and health issues. I expect those to be a thing of the past and his production to go up.

Same thing for Williams. I expect him to earn the starting slot job and become a solid component of the offense. 20+ snaps/game with 600+ yards, 7 TDs.

I do expect the FO to draft a big, fast receiver as well as a pure speed guy. There are some smurfs in the middle rounds that can fly and would be fun to watch.

An unsung part of the passing game that will be very important is who plays RG. The passing numbers will not be appreciably better if the center of the line continues to get collapsed back into the QBs face every time we face a good NT/DT. Snyder was a culprit much of the time and Goodwin was also culpable in that regard. Both positions need to be improved...but that is another thread.

agreed for the most part. i think theyre already better right now but they will also draft two receivers so it could make this unit way better if we get the right guys. KW may not make the cut tho if the rookies look good. i see crabs, moss, manningham, ginn, rookie, rookie as their WRs next year. i think they need to keep six because Ginn is primarily a return man with little impact as a receiver so far. WR depth royally screwed us last year and i dont think the niners will let that happen again
Originally posted by LoneWolf:
Using an individuals mistakes to blame them for the loss of a game, and turning a blind eye to the rest of the factors that lead to the loss of a game aren't what sportsmanship is about either, but I'm sure you already know that already. Yes Goldson was a starting FS (not exactly sure what the relevense to him being a starter is) but without his wreckless play I believe he would have contributed to holding the Giants elite offense to either 7 or 10 points.


Anyways back on subject, Crabtree does not suck in anyway I can agree with you on that for sure, but I'm not sure if he will ever mesh well with this team in specific. He seems to be the kind of receiver that would fit better on a passing attack that passes more then 50% of the time. Even though we are trying to load up our WR the best we can on a budget. We will never be a hardcore passing attack that is glorified now in the NFL. I think that is part of the reason the team doesnt feel its absolutely necessary to go after a bunch of deep threat receivers. While Wallace would have been a great pickup he hasn't earned Fitz type money. I almost think it might be a good idea for the team to bring Edwards back as TC try out to make the team, doesn't make the team, oh well no harm done, if he does it means he actually earned it over some good receivers, as compared to last year were it wasnt much competetition.

My point of Goldson being a starter is that he contributed positively in the game along with his mistakes. Kyle Williams name was only called for crucial, bonehead mistakes.

I respect your opinion, but if you think Goldson is as responsible for the loss as Williams you are insane. Goldson was trying to make an interception on a play and collided with Brown. Plays like that happen i in football. The mistakes Williams made are not acceptable in professional football.

We will be more of a passing team in the coming years and I am willing to put money on that. We have a QB guru leading directing the offense, and I find it hard to believe that his ultimate vision to his team is one that scores 7 points through the air per game like they did last year. What else is a coach supposed to do when he inherits a running oriented team with no offseason to work with? He did the smart thing and played to his teams strength. We passed more as the year went on but unfortunately Josh Morgan and Braylon Edwards were unable to contribute, which forced guys like Kyle Williams onto the field.
I am so glad that MC is properly bashed on these forums. Everyone knows that a 64% catch rate and 5.2 YAC average are completely garbage numbers. What good is this guy? He sucks. Not one good thing about his play. I also like that we excuse Alex Smith for lack of passing yards due to "attempts" throwing the football. It's a rational reason, of course. That same theory doesn't apply to Crabtree though.....If the offense only throws it 400 times, as a receiver, you are obviously expected to get 1500 yards or you're a bust. Yes, that makes perfect sense. Oh and the diva aspect....Yes, it's quite true that the best blocking WR in football is obviously not a "team player". If you block your ass off in the run game.....You are herby a diva. Hines Ward? Biggest diva of all time. Infallible logic.
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[ Edited by DirtyP on Mar 25, 2012 at 3:27 PM ]
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