Originally posted by flow:
He was throwing into double coverage. Watch the scoring plays in our playoff games.
Absolutely, it's amazing how Alex was able to throw into that double coverage. We know it was double coverage because there was a safety trying desperately to make up about 10 yards of distance. Pinpoint accuracy, man.
Those "easy" dumpoffs are an integral part of the West Coast offense.
And this is completely applicable to the topic at hand (Gore/Hunter "not having any problems" catching Alex's amazing throws, while the receivers somehow have more drops, which doesn't make any sense, man).
No one said 61% is elite. But the point is doing it without much help from your wide receivers is impressive.
I agree. Most people would say it's about average, but when you look at how awful, awful, awful everyone but Alex was on offense, it's amazing. So so so many drops.
Aaron Rodgers's receivers, meanwhile, don't drop balls.
Fourth quarter comebacks are a critical stat for quarterbacks. This isn't Madden; the NFL has too much parity for any one team to consistently blow out other teams. The difference between winning and losing is heavily dependent on whether your QB chokes or is clutch.
And no, Alex didn't tie the record himself, but the 2011 49ers did tie the record for fewest interceptions-thrown (5) with Alex taking all but six attempts. Those 1990 Chiefs threw 5 interceptions as a team. And try to minimize the importance of ball security all you want... but they're more important in real football than in fantasy football.
Well, thank God for that. Alex > DeBerg, then, because someone besides DeBerg threw an INT that year. I agree with you.
I agree, when you have the #2 defense in football, you have to expect to be trailing constantly heading into the 4th quarter, no matter how amazing your quarterback is. Because, after all, the league is just full of elite defenses. The rules these days allow for vicious hitting and physical coverage like never before...it's so hard to throw the ball in this league.
He did outplay Manning. Alex drove his team across the field from his own territory more times than Manning did (3 vs 2). If it weren't for K*le W*lliams (I still can't say his name, lol) this would not be an issue. And both defenses were excellent. Manning also had more errant throws; he threw two passes right to SF defenders, but Goldson cleaned out his teammates. Watch the game. He knocked Tarrell Brown out on one of those plays.
Hey, I'm with you. This is why Joe Montana was so overrated. In Super Bowl XXIII, threw a pass right to Bengals' DB Lewis Billups, who dropped it. Next play, he hits Rice for the TD. We need to start counting interceptions that never happened when we consider a quarterback's play.
Alex also did a better job of handing it off to Gore than Manning did with his handoffs, hence he played better, despite the seemingly enormous passing yardage differential. And that play where he bought about 10 seconds worth of time and waited under converging pressure, releasing a perfect pass to Ahmad Bradshaw down the sidelines into SF territory before getting crushed...~yawn~ Seen Alex do that a million times. I'm much more impressed at Alex hitting Vernon Davis when he was only open by about a 5 yard radius. Difficult throws.
Straw man argument. No one claimed Troy Smith is Pro Bowl and that Alex is better than Brees/Young. That's all you. But the point is Crabtree was showing mad love to Troy Smith, even though they didn't produce anything at all. And again, if Alex was the one holding Crabtree back, why didn't Crabtree produce with Troy Smith? Good receivers can produce with sub-par QBs. Look at Pierre Garcon--who is not elite by any stretch--and what he did with that circus in Indy this year.
Crabtree and Troy Smith should get a room. It's amazing...the lovefest that was going on. How could I have missed that?
I agree with you on the receivers with sub-par quarterbacks, which is why Andre Johnson was known as a Top 3 receiver while David Carr was his quarterback. Terrell Owens quite enjoyed playing with Trent Edwards/Ryan Fitzpatrick in Buffalo, and Reggie Wayne's numbers didn't even dip a little last year without Peyton Manning in the lineup. Anquan Boldin is having the same success in Baltimore he had in Arizona with Kurt Warner, and Steve Smith was just fine in Carolina for a few years before they took Cam Newton. Everyone knew Marvin Harrison was a star before Peyton Manning got there, and Santana Moss has loved the QB shuffle in Washington.
The overwhelming majority of football fans get their info from either television and/or stats. What's your point? "Oh, Crabtree looks bad on TV, but I assume Crabtree is a great receiver, therefore TV sucks." Incredibly weak argument.
That was exactly my argument. How did you figure it out?
What I was definitely NOT implying is that you're completely talking out of your a** when you claim receivers aren't getting separation or are poor route runners based on what you've seen on TV, because their routes take place off-camera. That would just be silly, after all.
And the one common theme among all great, productive quarterbacks - receivers getting tons and tons of separation. The Saints just keep finding ultra-studs like Lance Moore, Deverey Henderson, Robert Meachem, and Marques Colston to help out Drew Brees, while the Patriots get greats like Deion Branch, David Givens, Wes Welker, Troy Brown, David Patton. The Colts gave Manning superb talents like Austin Collie, and the Packers drafted the amazing Jordy Nelson to go along with their mid-30's Donald Driver.
Straw man argument again. No where did Jerry Rice say Crabtree's slow because he weighs too much. Again, those words and all that about fast-twitch muscle fiber vs other mass ratio is all you. Rice said: 1) Crabtree does not get separation and that 2) Crabtree might want to try different methods to improve that. Here's the exact quote: "I don't know exactly what he weighs. He could lose maybe 10 or 15 pounds and be more explosive." Did you see that? Rice even admitted he doesn't know how much Crabtree weighs; he was just offering one possibility to improve Crabtree's poor separation. In order to solve problems you have to be willing to explore possibilities.
Gosh, gotta stop with this straw man, clearly
you're understanding exactly what
I am saying, but I'm just not understanding what you and the likes of Jerry Rice are saying. What is the matter with me?
Rice may have said that while he has no idea what Crabtree weights, he should lose some weight to get faster, but that in no way implies that Rice thinks losing weight = getting faster. Nope, not what he was talking about at all. Rice doesn't need to tell us he's just giving us a "possibility"...that's not his job. It's your job. Your job is to tell everyone what Jerry Rice meant by his statement. You are the official Rice interpreter, not us.
So when Rice says "he could lose maybe 10-15 pounds and be more explosive," Rice isn't actually saying that Crabtree could lose 10-15 pounds and...he'd be more explosive. He's just saying it's possible that he's overweight, and if he is, then he could possibly lose 10-15 pounds of fat, and be more explosive, possibly.
Eric Mangini is a good source, and he's one of many who has said Crabtree acts like a diva. Eric Mangini was the head coach of two teams in the NFL. While he wasn't overly successful, he wasn't a failure by any means either. This is what Crabtree-lovers do, they bash the messenger. If Jesus came down and said Crabtree sucks, you would say, "Psst. What does he know. He never coached in the NFL."
Yeah, definitely not a failure. He was fired from his first team after 3 seasons, and his second team after 2 seasons. He compiled a 33-47 record as a head coach. Excellent stuff.
You obviously don't need to list the others who agree with The Great Mangini. A lot of fans on the internet think that, and if message board posters think something, it's gotta be true.
So according to your logic: Jerry Rice--the greatest receiver of all time--shouldn't say squat about Crabtree but Deion Sanders--a cornerback--can? Eric Mangini--an experienced coach--can't say anything about Crabtree because he is just on TV, but Deion Sanders--who is also on TV--can? Unbelievable.
Deion Sanders is a complete head case. Look it up. Jerry Rice would be a much better source for Crabtree both on and off the field because Rice was actually a receiver--a kinda good one too 
--and is just more calm and cool than Sanders.
I hope Crabtree learns how to wear towels that say "Flash 80" or "Sweet Rice" dangling out the back of his pants, push over concession stands and shout "I ain't no m-f'ing decoy" after his teammate scores a TD, kick over pylons after his team wins but he doesn't catch a pass, threaten to retire after his team wins 31-20 because he didn't get as many balls as he'd like, saying "this isn't 49er football," get caught cheating on his wife in a Brothel and then blame his teammates for "pulling a prank on him," and shout at his coach "tell him to throw a f--ing spiral!!! A f-ing spiral!!!" after he drops his second pass of the game.
You're right. Deion Sanders has no right to offer encouragement to Michael Crabtree. That is completely the same thing as someone on TV criticizing him.
Not like Jerry Rice was extremely prone to dropping the football throughout his career or anything.
Again, if Jerry Rice held out in 1992, good for him! He had EARNED the right for a bigger contract in 1992. Crabtree held out BEFORE PLAYING A DOWN IN THE NFL. If you can't see the difference, that's your problem.
I'm with you there. Rookies should have no right to make any demands when it comes to salaries. In fact, if teams want them to play for minimum wage, they should be forced to do so. After all, they haven't proven anything, so what right do they have to ask for any more money? Jerks.
You're entitled to your opinion, as am I. But I do believe Crabtree whines like a b*tch. Look at this from Camp Alex:
Crabtree talked with reporters after the session and was asked how it he thought chemistry with the quarterback would improve by getting out and tossing balls with him.
"Who's the quarterback?" Crabtree said, via the Sacramento Bee.
Smith's name was mentioned.
"He's the quarterback? I'm just asking," Crabtree said.
What man with a d*ck acts like that? Alex is organizing the damn thing with no contract, at least show him some damn respect. Act like a man instead of playing these passive-aggressive head games.
Oooh, that's some harsh stuff, bro. Scathing.
I agree, Crabtree should have shown Coach Alex some respect. Who cares if Alex isn't actually a coach, isn't even under contract with the team so theoretically he could still go somewhere else, and may players think these types of workouts do more harm than good. Come to camp Alex, because Alex Smith is the King of the 49ers.
No one said Alex single-handedly saved our team. I love our defense and special teams; we would be no where without them. But Alex's clutch performances netted us extra wins all year. We would not be 13-3 without Alex. Simple as that. And when our defense allowed Drew Brees to score twice in four minutes, Alex did save the team. Twice.
I know. "Clutch" performances in the form of the 29th ranked passing attack. It's much better to be scrambling for victories at the end of the game because your offense didn't produce in the first 3 than it is to actually have the lead going into the 4th quarter.
What Eli and Elway did had no bearing on Crabtree's decision to holdout. Just like Alex should not get paid more because the Bills overpaid for Fitzpatrick.
No one wants to give Crabtree the death penalty. Those are your words.
So what if Alex did shots off women's breasts? He wasn't forcing himself on them. He wasn't doing anything illegal or immoral.
Well, as long as he wasn't raping them, he was behaving in a very professional and classy manner. What a loveable guy.
Why shouldn't we give Crabtree the death penalty? You just (correctly) said he's a hyper-sensitive, overrated, pompous, spoiled, sack of gar-BAGE. What are his redeeming qualities? Kill him, he's a sack of garbage. Sacks of garbage have no value, other than as fertilizer. That's what Crabtree should obviously be, so we should kill him, right? Who would want a hyper-sensitive, overrated, pompous, spoiled, sack of gar-BAGE to procreate?
And no one is accusing Crabtree of drunken driving or defending drunken drivers. Those are your words, not mine. As far as I know, Crabtree never drank and drove, so good for him. (Seriously.)
That's exactly what I was saying. Your ability to comprehend everything I say is amazing...how do you do it?
[ Edited by DerekJeterForGG on Mar 23, 2012 at 6:09 PM ]
