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we gave up 44 sacks

I think I remember something about Alex's play when blitzed was off the charts...

If this is the case, I wonder how many of those sacks were on blitzes???
  • JMC52
  • Veteran
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What did we give up, 8 to Baltimore, bad line or good line, I would love too see Peyton no huddle and tear Balt up with quick passes. But I really want Alex back in sf
Originally posted by sdaddy101269:
Originally posted by toeshawn:
Our offensive line gave up 44 sacks.
The rams gave up the most (55), the Bills gave up the least (23)

How can the team improve from that? Will another year in the same scheme make a difference or does someone need to be upgraded?

If you take out the Ravens game how many did we give up?

Every team can say this but we've been consistently one of the worst OL's for years and not just with total sacks but also with QB pressures and hits and very poor in short yardage and goal line and RZ muscle too. I'm sure the coaches are aware of all the problems, everything noted from WR's who can't get open immediately off the LOS like a Jerry Rice to poor pass-blocking by backs and TE's and the entire OL, receivers not recognizing the blitz and breaking off routes, to a lack of OL blitz recognition, pick-ups and adjustments on the LOS by the "line calls" (not the QB), to poor, predictable play calling, predictable heavy TE packages that highlight the play calls, lack of chemistry, hesitation by the QB or lack of consistent trust in his receivers (save for VD), poor game plans and detailed coaching, etc. It really is a combination of a lot of things and has been masked some by our playoff run and clutch play by Alex/VD.

I'm glad we are discussing it here b/c it's a real, consistent problem for us. I have no doubt, if Alex and the receivers had the time we see with other QB's, it would open up everything esp. the playbook!
[ Edited by NCommand on Mar 9, 2012 at 9:53 AM ]
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by toeshawn:
Our offensive line gave up 44 sacks.
The rams gave up the most (55), the Bills gave up the least (23)

How can the team improve from that? Will another year in the same scheme make a difference or does someone need to be upgraded?

OL has improved since 2005. Give you a good guess to what hasnt.
The WR corps
Originally posted by sincalfaithful:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by toeshawn:
Our offensive line gave up 44 sacks.
The rams gave up the most (55), the Bills gave up the least (23)

How can the team improve from that? Will another year in the same scheme make a difference or does someone need to be upgraded?

OL has improved since 2005. Give you a good guess to what hasnt.
The WR corps

Your posts? Zing!!!
Originally posted by Gore_21:
I found 29 of the 44 sacks given up on I think rotoworld as Staley 6, Iupati 3.5, Goodwin 6, Snyder 3, Rachal 1, Davis 9.5

Here is a thread to read through:
http://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/niners/158848-more-evidence-our-offensive-line-terrible/

Here was my reply:

Our guys are pretty good when blocking one on one. They have talent. Our problem is we are horrible protecting vs the blitz. We have no communication... we got 2 guys blocking 1 guy and others running free. It is partly on the coaches for not having them prepared and able to communicate during various blitzes. Two years in you would think Solari could have taught the guys how to deal with blitzes by now especially considering our guys have gained some chemistry. The second reason would be bad playcalling and the lack of quick throws/slants. I don't know how many times against Baltimore instead of taking advantage and doing 3 step drops and slants (when they sent everybody) we would do 7 step drops and get killed. Makes me hate Roman at times... so stubborn. The 3rd reason would be Alex not getting the ball out quickly... a lot of times he would be under pressure but we have to do more 3 step drops, quick throws and slants and he has to trust the WR and not wait until they are open before throwing it. He has the arm and the accuracy (imo) to put the ball in those spots it's just that he doesn't trust himself or the WRs often. Alex is also quick to check down (which is sometimes a good thing). Part of it's our playing style though. Last reason would be WRs not getting separation... sometimes it's a lack of communication. So Roman needs to step up, need to go with what works... work on the screen game, work on quick slants and throws, 3 step instead of 7 step drops. Solari and the OL have to step up... Alex, the WRs... almost everyone has been together for long enough it's time to put up or shut up.

I agree with most of what you are saying, but think you are dead wrong about the play calling.

The #1 way to improve the sack stat is to work with Alex on spotting the blitz pre-snap and then switching the WR and/or TE's to their hot routs along with calling the protection (o-line, TE, and rb's) to the correct location.

Now I am not blaming this all on Alex, I think the short off season last year really effected what the coaching staff could work with the team on. Also, it is partially on the WR/TE to be aware of the blitz and to look for the hot rout call, and then to get separation.
Originally posted by 49er4life:
Originally posted by Gore_21:
I found 29 of the 44 sacks given up on I think rotoworld as Staley 6, Iupati 3.5, Goodwin 6, Snyder 3, Rachal 1, Davis 9.5

Here is a thread to read through:
http://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/niners/158848-more-evidence-our-offensive-line-terrible/

Here was my reply:

Our guys are pretty good when blocking one on one. They have talent. Our problem is we are horrible protecting vs the blitz. We have no communication... we got 2 guys blocking 1 guy and others running free. It is partly on the coaches for not having them prepared and able to communicate during various blitzes. Two years in you would think Solari could have taught the guys how to deal with blitzes by now especially considering our guys have gained some chemistry. The second reason would be bad playcalling and the lack of quick throws/slants. I don't know how many times against Baltimore instead of taking advantage and doing 3 step drops and slants (when they sent everybody) we would do 7 step drops and get killed. Makes me hate Roman at times... so stubborn. The 3rd reason would be Alex not getting the ball out quickly... a lot of times he would be under pressure but we have to do more 3 step drops, quick throws and slants and he has to trust the WR and not wait until they are open before throwing it. He has the arm and the accuracy (imo) to put the ball in those spots it's just that he doesn't trust himself or the WRs often. Alex is also quick to check down (which is sometimes a good thing). Part of it's our playing style though. Last reason would be WRs not getting separation... sometimes it's a lack of communication. So Roman needs to step up, need to go with what works... work on the screen game, work on quick slants and throws, 3 step instead of 7 step drops. Solari and the OL have to step up... Alex, the WRs... almost everyone has been together for long enough it's time to put up or shut up.

I agree with most of what you are saying, but think you are dead wrong about the play calling.

The #1 way to improve the sack stat is to work with Alex on spotting the blitz pre-snap and then switching the WR and/or TE's to their hot routs along with calling the protection (o-line, TE, and rb's) to the correct location.

Now I am not blaming this all on Alex, I think the short off season last year really effected what the coaching staff could work with the team on. Also, it is partially on the WR/TE to be aware of the blitz and to look for the hot rout call, and then to get separation.

Pretty sure I read something about them taking hot routes out. I think Davis and some of the other receivers were having problems with the reads.
[ Edited by Jakemall on Mar 9, 2012 at 10:32 AM ]
Originally posted by Jakemall:
Pretty sure I read something about them taking hot routes out. I think Davis and some of the other receivers were having problems with the reads.

Yeah and not sure if that is on the QB either. Alex has the ability to change the play (see 9 crowding the box and changes the call from a run to a pass) but I believe the Center calls the blitz pickups (e.g. makes the line calls) and the receivers have the responsibility to break off routes if they suspect a blitz. Not positive and each offense is different.
I agree with most of what others have said.

Snyder and Rachal aren't great options. Snyder is better than Rachal but not a good OG. He's versatile enough to play at a number of positions on the OL. However, this is moot if Goodwin comes out anyway because Rachal is SO BAD that it's like playing without someone there anyway. Both positions can be upgraded either through the draft or through FA. Finding a OG that's better than what we have shouldn't be very difficult - even a cast-off from another team. There are a lot of OG/OC players out there who have more power and can provide better pass protection.

I trust that Baalke can find the right pieces. We have a lot of time. No shortened off-season.
Originally posted by JMC52:
What did we give up, 8 to Baltimore, bad line or good line, I would love too see Peyton no huddle and tear Balt up with quick passes. But I really want Alex back in sf

Actually they gave up 9 sacks, mostly because Snyder went down early in the game.
A lot of blame to go around.

Totally sick of the Manning CRAP - PLEASE LOSE IT!

GETR oiver it - Alex is here to stay.

As far as the topic - sacks - it got a lot better w/Snyder but far - very far from good enough.

This full season will show a real difference in OLine, I fully agree that the playcalling was not aggressive as it shoulfd be. if that's bbecause of the loss of OTA's Training Camp - I really don't know.

What I do know is that many in this post have seem to have forgotten is 13-3. PLEASE remember what it was like before. We are building on that and all the Alex crqap is SO OLD!

Please contribute something positive.
Originally posted by LasVegasWally:
A lot of blame to go around.

Totally sick of the Manning CRAP - PLEASE LOSE IT!

GETR oiver it - Alex is here to stay.

As far as the topic - sacks - it got a lot better w/Snyder but far - very far from good enough.

This full season will show a real difference in OLine, I fully agree that the playcalling was not aggressive as it shoulfd be. if that's bbecause of the loss of OTA's Training Camp - I really don't know.

What I do know is that many in this post have seem to have forgotten is 13-3. PLEASE remember what it was like before. We are building on that and all the Alex crqap is SO OLD!

Please contribute something positive.

I would say this is true for a first, second or 3rd year player. Snyder has been playing for a while. He's definitely a known quantity. I don't think he gets significantly better with a "full training camp, etc." Both Rachal and Snyder need to be upgraded - the talent level can be significantly upgraded. There are other versatile linemen out there. We certainly don't own the mold on that one.
Originally posted by Jakemall:
Pretty sure I read something about them taking hot routes out. I think Davis and some of the other receivers were having problems with the reads.

Wouldn't be surprised... we can barely get chemistry without reading coverage and changing routes. It's on Alex if he see's it's a blitz and is allowed to change the play but doesn't and does a 7 step drop box. If he is told to not change the plays then it's a coaching problem. I think Alex did more audibles than previous years but I just don't get why someone didn't fix the problem in a game like Baltimore. It's like we go away from slants and quick throws that work and continuously run plays with 7 step drops where are WRs aren't even looking for the ball and Alex is getting killed. Whether it's on Alex or the coaches/playcalling or both it doesn't matter. It has to be fixed.
[ Edited by Gore_21 on Mar 9, 2012 at 11:50 AM ]
Originally posted by JMC52:
What did we give up, 8 to Baltimore, bad line or good line, I would love too see Peyton no huddle and tear Balt up with quick passes. But I really want Alex back in sf

9 and a big part of Peyton's success has been all these years he was well protected. He rarely took sacks. Part of it was him but a lot of it was Howard Mudd and the OL. Also, a lot of his success had to do with the chemistry he had with his WRs. Something our guys don't develop quickly. Don't want to turn this into a Manning thread but all it could take is one bad shot and his career is done.
Originally posted by Gore_21:
9 and a big part of Peyton's success has been all these years he was well protected. He rarely took sacks. Part of it was him but a lot of it was Howard Mudd and the OL. Also, a lot of his success had to do with the chemistry he had with his WRs. Something our guys don't develop quickly. Don't want to turn this into a Manning thread but all it could take is one bad shot and his career is done.

his offense has been in the same system for what 14 years?
obviously they will be minor tweaks but at 14 years you will be able to know where you rWR are at all times hence quicker realeases

people thinking that manning will come here and do same thing and have that quick release are being unrelaistic