There are 129 users in the forums

Remember
Not a member? Register Now!

Why did we overpay so much for Brooks? And where does that leave us now?

Maiocco mentioned it in one of his blog posts today. The player agent controls the message for the first few days after a "big" signing and the terms are ALWAYS inflated. Some time within the next couple of days the nuts and bolts of the deal will be made public through the league and we should see how the incentives are structured and how likely or unlikely they are to be earned. Then we can put this all to bed.

My guess is in the end, if he continues to put up numbers similar to last season, he'll make about $25-30 million over the life of the deal.
  • cciowa
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 24,151
Originally posted by niner4life21:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by Youngb:
Yeah I'm pretty sure the deal is full of incentives and not completely guaranteed. I thought it was a bit much myself when I first saw the contract, but until the details are released, I can't really have a positive or negative opinion about it.

All I do know is the leagues most dominate front 7 are intact for at least another year.

OLB aren't big tackle guys. They eat up blocks and allow PWilly and Bowman to fill the gaps.

2 cents

OK he's not a big tackle guy. You know what he's ALSO NOT A BIG SACK GUY! He's a 3 - 4 OLB who had 7 sacks 1 time in his career EVER!

Your posts lack much analysis and depth, in my opinion.

Sure, 7 sacks might not be a lot, but we already had a guy with 14 and Justin Smith is another pass rusher who excels on our defense.

Not every guy can sack the QB. Aldon is definitely ahead of Brooks in this area, but Brooks had the most pressures on our defense on 3rd downs, which is arguably the most important down.

If you have one guy who is a sack master and two other guys who statistically end up in the 7-9 range and can provide relentless pressure, what is there to complain about?

Are you worried by the '44'? Does that number seem too large for you? A 6 year contract with only 17.5 million guaranteed for probably our most complete linebacker is an outstanding deal.
lets all wait and see where the numbers are at in a couple of days when they have to report things to the nfl.a couple of years ago fans would scream cuz he were cheap and now we are able to open up the bank a little bit, things still get nutsy trust me if snyder walks, chilo is not coming back, no way.. i just can not believe after all of the hard work the front office had to do to get us out of the mess we were in for years, they would over pay someone and mess up our chance to resign our players.
Jesus f**king Christ!!!!

Last year it was, "Why isn't Harbaugh at the Scouting Combine, waaaaa, waaaaa, waaaaaaa!!!!"

SanDiego49er, you will always find something to b***h about, seriously dude, change the f**king record!
  • cciowa
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 24,151
Originally posted by Eduardo75:
Jesus f**king Christ!!!!

Last year it was, "Why isn't Harbaugh at the Scouting Combine, waaaaa, waaaaa, waaaaaaa!!!!"

SanDiego49er, you will always find something to b***h about, seriously dude, change the f**king record!

ha ha i forgot about that he also told us we would rue the day we let rashawn woods leave. he is a good guy and a good fan but sometimes micromanages to much
Originally posted by AXEGRINDER:
Lol he doesn't do it to get answers.

I know, but I really would like to see SD answer some of them, but something tells me he doesn't know the answers.
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
When did Brooks ever do 11 sacks? Ever? Above 10 ever? Double digits. Aldon Smith came in and did it as a rookie and made it look easy.

An OLB is not measured in sacks alone. The people who make the important decisions obviously place a higher value on Brooks than you do. Don't forget about our run defense this year. Brooks had a big role in that. And his sacks were very timely iirc.

I for one don't think Brooks is an "average" outside linebacker. You have to look beyond numbers.

It is my gut feeling that the 49ers gave Brooks Roger's money. Brook's signing all but assures Rogers will walk. The team looked at who they could least afford to lose and they felt that player was Brooks and the more I think about it I agree with them. And I still believe they could sign everyone else that needs to be resigned.
Originally posted by DRUSTOPO:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by 1swift:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by DRUSTOPO:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
OK he's not a big tackle guy. You know what he's ALSO NOT A BIG SACK GUY! He's a 3 - 4 OLB who had 7 sacks 1 time in his career EVER!

This was also his first year as a starter EVER...and he's just 27. If he doesn't improve and turns out to be an average player, they'll axe his last two years ( which Im sure are heavily back loaded, meaning little to no cap hit ). If he does earn the entire contract amount of 44M, then he most likely improved to a 10+ Sack guy He is just about to hit his prime, James Harrison is one of the best 3-4 OLB in the league..look what he did before age 29 =

James Harrison ( 6'0", 242lbs )
2004 ( 26 ) - 16 Games, 45 Tackles, 36 Solo, 1 Sack, 0 FF, 2 Pass Defended, 5 Stuffs for 0 yards.
2005 ( 27 ) - 16 Games, 45 Tackles, 36 Solo, 3 Sacks, 0 FF, 4 Pass Defended, 0 Stuffs for 0 yards.
2006 ( 28 ) - 11 Games, 20 Tackles, 12 Solo, 0 Sacks, 0 FF, 0 Pass Defended, 1 Stuff for 1 yard.

You act like we saw the best of Brooks in his 1st full season as a starter in a new system. Give him a couple years, the contract may end up looking more like 24M over 4 years if he ends up being average. Or could look like a steal if he turns into something much better.

Have some faith that Balke and Jimbo know more about him than you and I.

Now we are comparing him to James Harrison?.... The most sacks he had in his life is 7.
Right so Harrison at that point in his career was averaging 37 Tackles and 1.3 Sacks a season While 26-27-28....Brooks is averaging 34 Tackles and 6 sacks per season over last 3 years as a 25-26-27 year old and for the first time started in his career just last season. It's a solid comparison showing potential progression of a player.

If Brooks earns every dime of that 44 Million that means he's playing GREAT every season. No body front loads a contract, the last years are going to be high cap numbers and for him to be worth it, his numbers will have to be there. I dont see what the problem is. If he's great, then pay him, if he's not, then he'll have to restructure or get cut. Thats how the NFL works. This isn't the Giants and Barry Zito. You have to earn every dime past the guaranteed money so it's either the niners win and retain an amazing LB for at least 6 years, or they cut ties/reconstruct if his production isnt up to par with his cap figure for coming years.

He's done nothing to indicate he will progress into James Harrison. That's reaching.
Again SanD...just the facts...

James Harrison ( 6'0", 242lbs )
2004 ( 26 ) - 16 Games, 45 Tackles, 36 Solo, 1 Sack, 0 FF, 2 Pass Defended, 5 Stuffs for 0 yards.
2005 ( 27 ) - 16 Games, 45 Tackles, 36 Solo, 3 Sacks, 0 FF, 4 Pass Defended, 0 Stuffs for 0 yards.
2006 ( 28 ) - 11 Games, 20 Tackles, 12 Solo, 0 Sacks, 0 FF, 0 Pass Defended, 1 Stuff for 1 yard.

Ahmad Brooks ( 6'3", 259 )
2010 ( 26 ) - 15 Games, 31 Tackles, 29 Solo, 5 Sacks, 0 FF, 2 Pass Defended, 4 Stuffs for 15 yards.
2011 ( 27 ) - 16 Games, 49 Tackles, 34 Solo, 7 Sacks, 1 FF, 3 Pass Defended, 3 Stuffs for 12 yards.

Harrison didnt reach his potential until 29. 17.5 Million is worth the risk of finding out if a player hitting his prime is ready to take his game to the next level.

Why are we comparing a SAM (Brooks) with a WILL (Harrison). These are two totally different positions...totally different. Even that said, with only looking a basic stats (at best), Harrison only had 9 sacks and 59 tackles. CUT HIM! How much is he getting paid?

Anyhow, if you want to compare Brooks, compare him to the Woodley who had 9 sacks and only 39 tackles. How much does he get paid? Many would argue that this is one of, if not, the best SAM/WILL tandem in the game and who are much more accomplished in this scheme over the years.

Brooks had what? 7 and 49. Which happens to be 2nd and 6th on a record setting defense, along with 43 hits/pressures which was 3rd and 1st in TFL. And oh yeah...all on the strong side in the QB's face and while logging almost very single snap?

I love you SD but you are giving SD a bad name right now. Do a little research before you over-react. If you people are serious about this, show me the production of all the SAM players (apples-to-apples), their production and their contracts. Brooks only had the "chance" to start this year so you can't hold that against him. He was ready two years ago. And isn't that even more of a reason to sign him? He has very little wear and tear and did all of this in a vanilla 3-4.
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by SonocoNinerFan:
He won't be paid $44 Million . . .

He will if he plays out his contract and meets signing bonuses and other bonus money....

.. But that would mean he does outstanding and meets his incentives by playing great, and thus, worth the deal. If not, he doesn't make that, and therefore is still worth the deal.

This is not a bad deal at all.
Originally posted by cciowa:
Originally posted by Eduardo75:
Jesus f**king Christ!!!!

Last year it was, "Why isn't Harbaugh at the Scouting Combine, waaaaa, waaaaa, waaaaaaa!!!!"

SanDiego49er, you will always find something to b***h about, seriously dude, change the f**king record!

ha ha i forgot about that he also told us we would rue the day we let rashawn woods leave. he is a good guy and a good fan but sometimes micromanages to much

lulz
This conversation isn't going to go anywhere until his contract numbers come out and we can see how much of that 44.5 mil he's likely going to see and how much is going to count against the cap in the next few years.

But on the whole this was a good move. Based on previous production alone the max value seems a bit high, but the guaranteed number shows the contract is likely a good value. When you're defense is ranked 2nd (by .1 pts) in points per game and your stop unit is hands down the best in the league you go above and beyond to keep your players together. Especially if they are entering their prime and only improving. Like RBD416 said, if Brooks sees the majority of that 44.5 mil it's because he's hitting his incentive bonuses and earning every penny.

Also, more and more teams are playing the 3-4 and while pass rushers are starting to become more common there are only so many athletic freaks like Aldon, Ware, and Hali coming out in the draft. When the Cowboys are prepared to give 10 mil in franchise money to Anthony Spencer then who knows what type of money Ahmad Brooks could have commanded on the open market.
Solid deal. 6 yrs!!! It's not likely he will reach the incentives to hit $44 mil.
Man he's a solid OLB. Much better than P.H. well done deal by the F.O.
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
When did Brooks ever do 11 sacks? Ever? Above 10 ever? Double digits. Aldon Smith came in and did it as a rookie and made it look easy.

Once again only one full season as a starter. This is like talking to a brick wall, I give up.
Originally posted by SonocoNinerFan:
Maiocco mentioned it in one of his blog posts today. The player agent controls the message for the first few days after a "big" signing and the terms are ALWAYS inflated. Some time within the next couple of days the nuts and bolts of the deal will be made public through the league and we should see how the incentives are structured and how likely or unlikely they are to be earned. Then we can put this all to bed.

My guess is in the end, if he continues to put up numbers similar to last season, he'll make about $25-30 million over the life of the deal.

Double this! Why don't we wait and see the actual parameters of the deal before we start hurling ourselves off of a cliff?
Plus he's got way more upside than 31 year old Rogers
Originally posted by SonocoNinerFan:
Maiocco mentioned it in one of his blog posts today. The player agent controls the message for the first few days after a "big" signing and the terms are ALWAYS inflated. Some time within the next couple of days the nuts and bolts of the deal will be made public through the league and we should see how the incentives are structured and how likely or unlikely they are to be earned. Then we can put this all to bed.

My guess is in the end, if he continues to put up numbers similar to last season, he'll make about $25-30 million over the life of the deal.

And honestly, in today's free agency players to me seem like they don't care if they will never seen half of the deal they just like to out do each other and have the biggest number. So it looks good to everyone that they have this huge inflated # and then you get down to the basics and realize the signing bonus is small and these incentives won't be reached. Also, as for incentives not sure what they but keep in mind all the talent around him. It's going to be tough shining and being a stat whore on such a great defense with great players who do their job and not freelance to be superstars.
[ Edited by Gore_21 on Feb 29, 2012 at 7:03 PM ]