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Why did we overpay so much for Brooks? And where does that leave us now?

Originally posted by AXEGRINDER:
Ugh. Here we go.

this...
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by 1swift:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by DRUSTOPO:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
OK he's not a big tackle guy. You know what he's ALSO NOT A BIG SACK GUY! He's a 3 - 4 OLB who had 7 sacks 1 time in his career EVER!

This was also his first year as a starter EVER...and he's just 27. If he doesn't improve and turns out to be an average player, they'll axe his last two years ( which Im sure are heavily back loaded, meaning little to no cap hit ). If he does earn the entire contract amount of 44M, then he most likely improved to a 10+ Sack guy He is just about to hit his prime, James Harrison is one of the best 3-4 OLB in the league..look what he did before age 29 =

James Harrison ( 6'0", 242lbs )
2004 ( 26 ) - 16 Games, 45 Tackles, 36 Solo, 1 Sack, 0 FF, 2 Pass Defended, 5 Stuffs for 0 yards.
2005 ( 27 ) - 16 Games, 45 Tackles, 36 Solo, 3 Sacks, 0 FF, 4 Pass Defended, 0 Stuffs for 0 yards.
2006 ( 28 ) - 11 Games, 20 Tackles, 12 Solo, 0 Sacks, 0 FF, 0 Pass Defended, 1 Stuff for 1 yard.

You act like we saw the best of Brooks in his 1st full season as a starter in a new system. Give him a couple years, the contract may end up looking more like 24M over 4 years if he ends up being average. Or could look like a steal if he turns into something much better.

Have some faith that Balke and Jimbo know more about him than you and I.

Now we are comparing him to James Harrison?.... The most sacks he had in his life is 7.
Right so Harrison at that point in his career was averaging 37 Tackles and 1.3 Sacks a season While 26-27-28....Brooks is averaging 34 Tackles and 6 sacks per season over last 3 years as a 25-26-27 year old and for the first time started in his career just last season. It's a solid comparison showing potential progression of a player.

If Brooks earns every dime of that 44 Million that means he's playing GREAT every season. No body front loads a contract, the last years are going to be high cap numbers and for him to be worth it, his numbers will have to be there. I dont see what the problem is. If he's great, then pay him, if he's not, then he'll have to restructure or get cut. Thats how the NFL works. This isn't the Giants and Barry Zito. You have to earn every dime past the guaranteed money so it's either the niners win and retain an amazing LB for at least 6 years, or they cut ties/reconstruct if his production isnt up to par with his cap figure for coming years.

He's done nothing to indicate he will progress into James Harrison. That's reaching.
Again SanD...just the facts...

James Harrison ( 6'0", 242lbs )
2004 ( 26 ) - 16 Games, 45 Tackles, 36 Solo, 1 Sack, 0 FF, 2 Pass Defended, 5 Stuffs for 0 yards.
2005 ( 27 ) - 16 Games, 45 Tackles, 36 Solo, 3 Sacks, 0 FF, 4 Pass Defended, 0 Stuffs for 0 yards.
2006 ( 28 ) - 11 Games, 20 Tackles, 12 Solo, 0 Sacks, 0 FF, 0 Pass Defended, 1 Stuff for 1 yard.

Ahmad Brooks ( 6'3", 259 )
2010 ( 26 ) - 15 Games, 31 Tackles, 29 Solo, 5 Sacks, 0 FF, 2 Pass Defended, 4 Stuffs for 15 yards.
2011 ( 27 ) - 16 Games, 49 Tackles, 34 Solo, 7 Sacks, 1 FF, 3 Pass Defended, 3 Stuffs for 12 yards.

Harrison didnt reach his potential until 29. 17.5 Million is worth the risk of finding out if a player hitting his prime is ready to take his game to the next level.
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
If he meets all incentives and signing bonuses he will get $44 million. That's too much of a cap # for an average OLB. I repeat he had 7 sacks tops in his career and 49 tackles tops. That's the best he ever did. EVER! Rediculous what they paid him and how he will effect our cap for years to come.

Well if he meets "all incentives", then that probably means he wouldn't be an "average" OLB anymore - and would be worth the contract.
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by 1swift:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by DRUSTOPO:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
OK he's not a big tackle guy. You know what he's ALSO NOT A BIG SACK GUY! He's a 3 - 4 OLB who had 7 sacks 1 time in his career EVER!

This was also his first year as a starter EVER...and he's just 27. If he doesn't improve and turns out to be an average player, they'll axe his last two years ( which Im sure are heavily back loaded, meaning little to no cap hit ). If he does earn the entire contract amount of 44M, then he most likely improved to a 10+ Sack guy He is just about to hit his prime, James Harrison is one of the best 3-4 OLB in the league..look what he did before age 29 =

James Harrison ( 6'0", 242lbs )
2004 ( 26 ) - 16 Games, 45 Tackles, 36 Solo, 1 Sack, 0 FF, 2 Pass Defended, 5 Stuffs for 0 yards.
2005 ( 27 ) - 16 Games, 45 Tackles, 36 Solo, 3 Sacks, 0 FF, 4 Pass Defended, 0 Stuffs for 0 yards.
2006 ( 28 ) - 11 Games, 20 Tackles, 12 Solo, 0 Sacks, 0 FF, 0 Pass Defended, 1 Stuff for 1 yard.

You act like we saw the best of Brooks in his 1st full season as a starter in a new system. Give him a couple years, the contract may end up looking more like 24M over 4 years if he ends up being average. Or could look like a steal if he turns into something much better.

Have some faith that Balke and Jimbo know more about him than you and I.

Now we are comparing him to James Harrison?.... The most sacks he had in his life is 7.
Right so Harrison at that point in his career was averaging 37 Tackles and 1.3 Sacks a season While 26-27-28....Brooks is averaging 34 Tackles and 6 sacks per season over last 3 years as a 25-26-27 year old and for the first time started in his career just last season. It's a solid comparison showing potential progression of a player.

If Brooks earns every dime of that 44 Million that means he's playing GREAT every season. No body front loads a contract, the last years are going to be high cap numbers and for him to be worth it, his numbers will have to be there. I dont see what the problem is. If he's great, then pay him, if he's not, then he'll have to restructure or get cut. Thats how the NFL works. This isn't the Giants and Barry Zito. You have to earn every dime past the guaranteed money so it's either the niners win and retain an amazing LB for at least 6 years, or they cut ties/reconstruct if his production isnt up to par with his cap figure for coming years.

He's done nothing to indicate he will progress into James Harrison. That's reaching.

Well.. If he plays at a level that allows him to make the whole 44 million, he'll probably have been to the Pro Bowl 4 times in the next 6 years. Are you OK with that?

Again, you have to wait and see how the contract is structured. The only thing we know right now is that he's entitled to 17.5M. Sure there are probably some roster bonuses and snaps played incentives, but I'd imagine the majority of it is based on Super Bowl appearacnes, Pro Bowls, and sacks.
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Wimbley had 11 sacks and 69 tackles as career highs respectively. Show me when Brooks did that?.....
The 11 sacks came his rookie season. He hasn't reached double digit sacks since. Maybe I'm missing something.
Originally posted by SFrush:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Wimbley had 11 sacks and 69 tackles as career highs respectively. Show me when Brooks did that?.....
The 11 sacks came his rookie season. He hasn't reached double digit sacks since. Maybe I'm missing something.

When did Brooks ever do 11 sacks? Ever? Above 10 ever? Double digits. Aldon Smith came in and did it as a rookie and made it look easy.
The only Guys we should worry about is TED GINN, GOLDSON, AND SNYDER!~ everyone else can go! And I have seen Rachal play, he's not as good as i wish he was! and Snyder is defnitely needed, without him our line wouldn't have got as good as it was last season!
Originally posted by Marvin49:
....am I having deja vu?

Didn't we just have this conversation?

Same here... I'll just copy this into microsoft word and save my answer so I can paste it to all the people on the various boards complaining about the contract.

This is what I said to AB hours ago (before this thread was made).

Yep. A lot of people overreacted to this deal on the various boards. It's easy to overreact to deals... most people do it but when you break it down and realize most guys don't get what their full deal was worth anyways. He will be 34 if he goes all 6 years so he might not see year 6 and maybe even year 5. Plus, they said 44.5 is max with incentives, that means it will be less on top of that without say pro bowls, all-pro, a certain amount of sacks or whatever. I just threw out a guess yesterday and said he would probably get 30 million, 35 tops of this deal. Just like with Nate Clements, everyone went crazy even though off the bat the last year was void and he would get 7 years, 62? max. And we all knew he wouldn't get year 7 either... Like you said he ended up with 4 years and like 45 million. The signing bonus is the main thing to start with.

And for the record he had 8 sacks this year with the one against the Saints.
[ Edited by Gore_21 on Feb 29, 2012 at 6:51 PM ]
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
When did Brooks ever do 11 sacks? Ever? Above 10 ever? Double digits. Aldon Smith came in and did it as a rookie and made it look easy.

Aldon was also playing with a hand in the grass and rushing the passer on almost every down he played. Brooks NEVER played that roll. He played a traditional OLB role and blitzed from time to time.
And Ahmad Brooks is well worth the contract, who else do we have? Haralson? he's the worst LB on the damn team, Haralson if anybody should go, how many times did we see that fool get into the back field and have a chance to make a play with a run stuff or sack? i'll keep him as a back up, but without Brooks, our LB's aren't complete BROOKS > HARALSON all damn day! BROOKS WILLIS BOWMAN ALL DONE SMITH! SICK LB'S RIGHT THERE!
Damn you Madden franchise mode!!!!
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by crabman82:
Originally posted by SonocoNinerFan:
He won't be paid $44 Million . . .


if your against the deal, you'll reference 44 mil, if u like the deal you'll reference 17.5 mil, simply put its just how it is

If he meets all incentives and signing bonuses he will get $44 million. That's too much of a cap # for an average OLB. I repeat he had 7 sacks tops in his career and 49 tackles tops. That's the best he ever did. EVER! Rediculous what they paid him and how he will effect our cap for years to come.
Well, you just answered your own question. Assuming the contract is loaded with incentives, which is likely, what is the problem with paying him if he meets those marks? That would, by definitition, mean that he is playing at a well-above average level for an OLB. Do you think the incentives are based on him maintaining an "average" level of play? The $44M number that we are seeing is what his agent has put out there. We have no idea how it is structured. No matter how much you want to be the harbinger of negativity, he will not see all of that money (they never do). If he sees a good portion of it, then that probably means that he played at a pretty exceptional level.
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by Youngb:
Yeah I'm pretty sure the deal is full of incentives and not completely guaranteed. I thought it was a bit much myself when I first saw the contract, but until the details are released, I can't really have a positive or negative opinion about it.

All I do know is the leagues most dominate front 7 are intact for at least another year.

OLB aren't big tackle guys. They eat up blocks and allow PWilly and Bowman to fill the gaps.

2 cents

OK he's not a big tackle guy. You know what he's ALSO NOT A BIG SACK GUY! He's a 3 - 4 OLB who had 7 sacks 1 time in his career EVER!

Your posts lack much analysis and depth, in my opinion.

Sure, 7 sacks might not be a lot, but we already had a guy with 14 and Justin Smith is another pass rusher who excels on our defense.

Not every guy can sack the QB. Aldon is definitely ahead of Brooks in this area, but Brooks had the most pressures on our defense on 3rd downs, which is arguably the most important down.

If you have one guy who is a sack master and two other guys who statistically end up in the 7-9 range and can provide relentless pressure, what is there to complain about?

Are you worried by the '44'? Does that number seem too large for you? A 6 year contract with only 17.5 million guaranteed for probably our most complete linebacker is an outstanding deal.
Lol at getting mad before even seeing the details if the contract
Haters gonna find reasons to hate
He could have received a lot more in FA, so I think this is fair for him. Sacks don't tell the whole story. He was great against the run, and was great getting pressure. He is an important part of this defense and can't be easily replaced by a rookie. I would much rather have Brooks start than Haralson with a rook off the bench.