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What keeps the offense from begin elite

I know Edwards sucked for us last year; there's no way around it. I meant only to use him (and Morgan) as examples of solid WRs whose injuries ruined their production and hurt us offensively--in other words, giving some credence to the idea that bad luck with injuries contributed to some of our offensive ineptitude. I'm not saying Ginn is a major threat or anything like that, but he was a pretty good option to have as a 4th WR (his originally intended role) who could come in and run a reverse and have a shot taken downfield once or twice a game. Playcalling was a huge improvement upon that piss-poor game plans of the past decade, and I have unbounded faith in this coaching staff, and particularly Harbaugh, to improve and innovate the offense. Going forward, however, I would like to a bit more imaginative RZ play calling (which did improve late and as we know was a casualty of the abbreviated offseason) and mix of pass and run. It seemed that we had too many possessions that were all run (or at least runs on 1st and 2nd) or all pass, usually ending in 3-&-Outs or only slightly better.

Looking at the responses so far, it appears that we're split into 2 camps: those that think Alex is holding us back and those that think our WRs are holding us back. I"m more inclined to agree with the WR issue, though I admit waffling on Smith. He can make big plays, he is clutch, he only figures to get better, but he's too inconsistent and for most of the game too cautious with the ball. Of course, Smith and us fans have to tread this line (Smith's conservatism) carefully. By opting to take as many sacks as he did or going for the 3 yard out route instead of the tough throw, he likely saved us a lot of turnovers and helped us win a lot of games. Nonetheless, I think it's for this reason that at times find myself dreaming of a healthy Peyton Manning QBing this team, even after having talked myself into Smith for the most part.
[ Edited by merm49 on Feb 28, 2012 at 11:23 AM ]
Originally posted by merm49:
I know Edwards sucked for us last year; there's no way around it. I meant only to use him (and Morgan) as examples of solid WRs whose injuries ruined their production and hurt us offensively--in other words, giving some credence to the idea that bad luck with injuries contributed to some of our offensive ineptitude. I'm not saying Ginn is a major threat or anything like that, but he was a pretty good option to have as a 4th WR (his originally intended role) who could come in and run a reverse and have a shot taken downfield once or twice a game. Playcalling was a huge improvement upon that piss-poor game plans of the past decade, and I have unbounded faith in this coaching staff, and particularly Harbaugh, to improve and innovate the offense. Going forward, however, I would like to a bit more imaginative RZ play calling (which did improve late and as we know was a casualty of the abbreviated offseason) and mix of pass and run. It seemed that we had too many possessions that were all run (or at least runs on 1st and 2nd) or all pass, usually ending in 3-&-Outs or only slightly better.

Looking at the responses so far, it appears that we're split into 2 camps: those that think Alex is holding us back and those that think our WRs are holding us back. I"m more inclined to agree with the WR issue, though I admit waffling on Smith. He can make big plays, he is clutch, he only figures to get better, but he's too inconsistent and for most of the game too cautious with the ball. Of course, Smith and us fans have to tread this line (Smith's conservatism) carefully. By opting to take as many sacks as he did or going for the 3 yard out route instead of the tough throw, he likely saved us a lot of turnovers and helped us win a lot of games. Nonetheless, I think it's for this reason that at times find myself dreaming of a healthy Peyton Manning QBing this team, even after having talked myself into Smith for the most part.

Originally posted by English:
Originally posted by Joecool:
"I don't know how you can describe Edwards and Ginn as solid offensive players."

Edwards has proven he's more than a solid offensive player. His injury was what held him back. Ginn...well...he hasn't done anything consistent enough in terms of offense to warrant being a solid offensive player.

Edwards' injury doesn't mean he isn't a solid offensive player. In reality, he's actually an above average receiver who's capable of getting nearly 1300 yards with a QB that's playing at a top level.

Three NFL teams don't agree with you. And only one year has he got over 1,000 yards. I don't see how you can describe him as above average.

And when did his QB's produce? One year. Being on 3 teams doesn't mean anything depending on why he wasn't resigned or traded. TO was on 3 teams. Jeff Garcia was on 3 teams. Montana was on 2 teams...

Braylon Edwards showcased his ceiling with a 1283 yard season when Anderson was playing well. To say he isn't a solid receiver is not correct.

BTW, check out Santonio Holmes' production...very similar to Braylon's. But Holmes should also be considered not solid?
[ Edited by Joecool on Feb 28, 2012 at 11:41 AM ]
Part of the reason would be the defense. When you have an elite defense, sometimes it is best to play it safe. But they also need more speed to open up space for their playmakers.
Originally posted by niners94:
Part of the reason would be the defense. When you have an elite defense, sometimes it is best to play it safe. But they also need more speed to open up space for their playmakers.

An edumacated man... I likes...
"When healthy last year, we had one of the deepest, most talented offenses in the league."

this statement is false. although i like our guys, they are no where near most talented in league. VD is inconsistent, but can be a top 3 TE. crabs has had some good games, but isnt yet a true #1 WR. gore is still a beast, but has injury problems. and alex still needs to develop a little more.

our biggest problem was new offense and no big playmaker(although VD became that in the playoffs). our o-line was also inconsistent. with a full offseason and hopefully some new weapons(at WR), this can become one of the deepest, most talented offenses in the league.
Originally posted by oldman9er:
Originally posted by niners94:
Part of the reason would be the defense. When you have an elite defense, sometimes it is best to play it safe. But they also need more speed to open up space for their playmakers.

An edumacated man... I likes...

Tell that to the 49ers superbowl teams. You can play it safe, but when there's an open receiver, one needs to make a play, fast receiver or not. Same goes for the receiver...when you are open, you need to make the catch IF/When it is thrown.
Interior linemen first and foremost. Hopefully Kilgore is apart of our future, then we are a center away.

As of now another halfback to platoon with Frank (aging ) and Hunter (change of pace guy), a short yardage guy to fulfill Dixon's role.

Pass catching targets. At Receiver and Tight End, to be a prolific offense you're going to need multiple targets and we only currently have Vernon and Crab.
Originally posted by niners9:
"When healthy last year, we had one of the deepest, most talented offenses in the league."

this statement is false. although i like our guys, they are no where near most talented in league. VD is inconsistent, but can be a top 3 TE. crabs has had some good games, but isnt yet a true #1 WR. gore is still a beast, but has injury problems. and alex still needs to develop a little more.

our biggest problem was new offense and no big playmaker(although VD became that in the playoffs). our o-line was also inconsistent. with a full offseason and hopefully some new weapons(at WR), this can become one of the deepest, most talented offenses in the league.

So, everyone on our offense can improve except for our WR's who are the ONLY players on offense in the last three years to have shown to improve at the highest rate from year to year?
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by oldman9er:
Originally posted by niners94:
Part of the reason would be the defense. When you have an elite defense, sometimes it is best to play it safe. But they also need more speed to open up space for their playmakers.

An edumacated man... I likes...

Tell that to the 49ers superbowl teams. You can play it safe, but when there's an open receiver, one needs to make a play, fast receiver or not. Same goes for the receiver...when you are open, you need to make the catch IF/When it is thrown.

Thats the problem. Our guys arent quick or fast enough to get open. And if they are (VD), they are double teamed. We need a legit deep threat, not a decoy (Ginn).
Originally posted by niners94:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by oldman9er:
Originally posted by niners94:
Part of the reason would be the defense. When you have an elite defense, sometimes it is best to play it safe. But they also need more speed to open up space for their playmakers.

An edumacated man... I likes...

Tell that to the 49ers superbowl teams. You can play it safe, but when there's an open receiver, one needs to make a play, fast receiver or not. Same goes for the receiver...when you are open, you need to make the catch IF/When it is thrown.

Thats the problem. Our guys arent quick or fast enough to get open. And if they are (VD), they are double teamed. We need a legit deep threat, not a decoy (Ginn).

This is a totally false statement and is getting to be the general theme on here because we covet a 6'5" 4.4 forty guy.

Crabs and Morgan's production proves they are fast and quick enough to get open. They are the only players on our offense who have increased there production from year to year better than anyone else on this offense.
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by niners94:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by oldman9er:
Originally posted by niners94:
Part of the reason would be the defense. When you have an elite defense, sometimes it is best to play it safe. But they also need more speed to open up space for their playmakers.

An edumacated man... I likes...

Tell that to the 49ers superbowl teams. You can play it safe, but when there's an open receiver, one needs to make a play, fast receiver or not. Same goes for the receiver...when you are open, you need to make the catch IF/When it is thrown.

Thats the problem. Our guys arent quick or fast enough to get open. And if they are (VD), they are double teamed. We need a legit deep threat, not a decoy (Ginn).

This is a totally false statement and is getting to be the general theme on here because we covet a 6'5" 4.4 forty guy.

Crabs and Morgan's production proves they are fast and quick enough to get open. They are the only players on our offense who have increased there production from year to year better than anyone else on this offense.

Did you watch the NFC Championship game? Crabtree was not getting open. And Morgan has never been quick or fast. They are possession receivers. We need a burner. Besides Ginn, all of our guys are possession receivers.
Originally posted by Joecool:
This is a totally false statement and is getting to be the general theme on here because we covet a 6'5" 4.4 forty guy.

Crabs and Morgan's production proves they are fast and quick enough to get open. They are the only players on our offense who have increased there production from year to year better than anyone else on this offense.

Apparently, increase in production is due to increase in QB production.

Or is it the other way around? I forget.
Originally posted by niners94:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by niners94:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by oldman9er:
Originally posted by niners94:
Part of the reason would be the defense. When you have an elite defense, sometimes it is best to play it safe. But they also need more speed to open up space for their playmakers.

An edumacated man... I likes...

Tell that to the 49ers superbowl teams. You can play it safe, but when there's an open receiver, one needs to make a play, fast receiver or not. Same goes for the receiver...when you are open, you need to make the catch IF/When it is thrown.

Thats the problem. Our guys arent quick or fast enough to get open. And if they are (VD), they are double teamed. We need a legit deep threat, not a decoy (Ginn).

This is a totally false statement and is getting to be the general theme on here because we covet a 6'5" 4.4 forty guy.

Crabs and Morgan's production proves they are fast and quick enough to get open. They are the only players on our offense who have increased there production from year to year better than anyone else on this offense.

Did you watch the NFC Championship game? Crabtree was not getting open. And Morgan has never been quick or fast. They are possession receivers. We need a burner. Besides Ginn, all of our guys are possession receivers.

Yeah, i saw Cruz get shut down in the second half because Rogers figured out his routes and I saw the other receivers practically get shut down to. But that doesnt make Manningham and the other WR slow.

BTW, one game doesn make Crabs slow. You dont get 900 yards on being thrown to less than almost any other receiver with similar stats by being slow. Also, coaches have repetedly talked about Morgans speed every year hea been here. They have said hes deceptively fast and he showed it this year.
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Apparently, increase in production is due to increase in QB production.

Or is it the other way around? I forget.

It is more correlated ro number targeted whih also is linked to QB making more throws outside the hashes.